Let Wife's boss touch her while she was passed out

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by tribbles

Vespertine-I'm glad you and your hubby view it the same way since it means you two are in tune. Be aware that others of who view it differently are no less in tune and no more right or wrong except for themselves. NO ONE has said what he did was right. That has not been an issue. It's more a matter of degree of wrongness (speeding vs killing...big difference) that we are discussing. And how each of us could forgive or not forgive errors in judgement.

Hmm...

I'm puzzled tribbles.

All I did was express my opinion of the situation. My opinion is that the situation is unforgivable. I never said "Hey! You're wrong because you don't agree with me!". I simply stated my opinion to the OP who posted, asking for opinions.

You said (to me): "Be aware that others of who view it differently are no less in tune and no more right or wrong except for themselves."

Please read your advice to me, and heed it. I believe you were the one to point out that I must be young or not married long enough to fully understand forgiveness, thus implying that my opinion has no merrit.

[biblonde]

Well tibbles I am real happy that you condone Rape and molesting. And the real men are those that would protect their wife from such an act. What went on here was plain and simple....SEXUAL ASSULT!!!!!!! And Yes I want my tax dollars being spent on those that commit such acts! And saying she was at fault because she was drunk...WTF....that is like saying a woman deserves to be raped because she was wearing something...or a child being molested because they dont know to say NO...THERE IS NO BLAME ON A WOMAN WHO WAS SEXUALLY ASSULTED!!!!!! SHE DIDNT ASK FOR IT...THE MAN CHOSE TO FORCE HIMSELF ON HER!!!

You disgust me to no end blaming her for this!!

[tribbles]

Vespertine,
I didn't mean it to sound that way. Everyones opinion is just that...their opinion. And people do change as life alters them. Sorry if you took it as a slam toward yours. My view is that to stay together takes lots of communication, tolerance and forgiveness. My view of your POV was that you said I might be compelled to look for another husband, too. And that seems like you are advocating divorce over attempting to work thru life as partners. I suspect I see people as a whole as more screwed up and likely to make even bad mistakes that they can learn from, than you do...but I'm guessing that by how I interpret your posts. It's super hard to communicate on message boards but I love trying anyway cuz it can make me think. (And feel and flame and well...grow as a human).


S and D

[tribbles]

biblonde, why would you edit out what your Mr. posted?

IF this discussion is too heated for you, remember it's the internet...it is NOT your life....you have sounded HAPPY with your man...let it go and enjoy that fact in your life.

What happened to someone else and how they cope and how all of us would cope and think and feel different from you...is just that. Different from you.

And as others can probably read...we didn't blame her. We blamed everyone.

[biblonde]

Originally Posted by tribbles

biblonde, why would you edit out what your Mr. posted?

IF this discussion is too heated for you, remember it's the internet...it is NOT your life....you have sounded HAPPY with your man...let it go and enjoy that fact in your life.

What happened to someone else and how they cope and how all of us would cope and think and feel different from you...is just that. Different from you.

I was asked to edit it because of a political statement....not because I wanted to delete it!!

[biblonde]

Originally Posted by tribbles

Thinking that getting drunk to the point of passing out at a company party does nothing to harm the relationship is being blind to the effects of drug abuse and alcohol abuse on a relationship, IMO. As others have said in this thread, she is at fault as well.

YOUR words dear...she is at fault as well.......

[tribbles]

Originally Posted by biblonde

YOUR words dear...she is at fault as well.......

Good I think you may be starting to get what we mean. Yes, they are all at fault in our opinion.

S and D

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by tribbles

Thinking that getting drunk to the point of passing out at a company party does nothing to harm the relationship is being blind to the effects of drug abuse and alcohol abuse on a relationship, IMO. As others have said in this thread, she is at fault as well.

Sorry I have to completely disagree with you. Someone passing out at a party is not harmful to a realtionship unless it is something that happens on a continual basis. This woman could be like me and pass out after a very few number of drinks.....nevertheless. She cannot be held responsible for her husband allowing someone to molest her while she is incapacitated. I have seen lots of people over do it at a party, but their SO managed to get them home without getting mauled by their boss. Sorry.. that doesn't fly..

Personally I think this conversation has pretty much been beaten to death. Obviously we are not all going to agree on this and that's fine.

[tribbles]

She cannot be held responsible for her husband allowing someone to molest her while she is incapacitated
Without this I might have stopped cuz I do agree we aren't going to view this situation eye to eye and the best we can do is agree to disagree. But it sounds like you are mixing responsibility for alcohol abuse with responsibility for what her husband allowed. Two different wrongs, IMO, but both wrong. Not even equal in wrongness, what he allowed I would rate higher on the wrongness scale. I do think both are wrongs that can be learned from and the relationship can survive. And that is purely our opinion.

D and S

[twoplayful2]

Originally Posted by biblonde

rape=rape=rape, molest=molest=molest!!!

A good explanation of why we're seeing things differently. It's apparently all black and white to you where I, crazy as this may sound, feel that a violent rape attack of a child (extreme example but it makes a point...whether you understand it or not) is not quite the same as the nipple-licking we're talking about here.

Originally Posted by biblonde

those that think this is no big deal I have have to say is THANK GOD!! I am not married to you!

And vice-versa. As my example shows, I think there is a grey area and THANK-GOD my wife is not one who can't see that and not someone who over-reacts and has such little tolerance or respect for opinions of others.


There is no disagreement between anyone here on whether this was wrong or not. The guy was wrong, he screwed up, we all agree on that. But whether a punishment like divorce fits the crime or not is where we're apparently not all agreeing. My opinion is that it does not and I really don't give a crap if anyone here agrees with that or not. Again, I'm not CONDONING what he did, I'm simply saying from my perspective the punishment does not necessarily fit the crime. There are a lot more variables here like little details that we don't know about and what type of personality and relationship they've got that factor into how she should react and what they should do about it. It's not all black and white with everyone and if you can't understand that there's not much I can do about that.

[themonster]

I'm all for people having their own views/opinions as long as they match mine...lol...j/k...

But seriously, it's all the double standards that get annoying. For example, BIBLONDE, when you said:
"You are suppose to keep your wife safe especially when she can't look after herself! You and MR. Boss being drunk as well is no excuse in my book!!!!!"
...ok...now that means that the wife is not supposed to take care of herself, that it is only her husbands job to do so, and even more so when she chooses to act irresponsibly and carelessly. I personally don't agree, I think a woman can and should be able to care for herself(under normal situations of course, a work party being one of them). But ok....maybe that's just me, but here's where the problem lies..... "You and MR. Boss being drunk as well is no excuse in my book!!!!!" ....STOP !!!!! ...look at that again, then come back here and continue.....the wife bears absolutely no responsibilty for her actions because she was drunk, but the other two men bear responsiblity for themselves AND the wife even though they were quite probably drinking as well????......hmmmmm.....c'mon now....even the firmest of the "rape, molest, jailtime, or divorcers" in the group here have got to see the double standard here. Why can drunkeness be an excuse to have no responsibility for the wife but not the husband.

Come to think of it, I think the husband should get some balls and kick his wife to the curb for allowing him to be put in this predicament where all he was trying to do was mix in and have some fun at HER office party, and she goes and gets all sloshy and gets him in all this trouble.....after all, a wife should look after her man at a party and make sure he's comfortable and doing ok!!! I find this unforgivable that the wife would do this to him and if it were me, I'd divorce her.

[themonster]

and this by EVILMJ ......"I have seen lots of people over do it at a party, but their SO managed to get them home without getting mauled by their boss."

... more ridiculous affirmation that it should be ok to lose total control over your bodily functions to the point that you are not aware that someone is "raping, molesting, or assaulting " you because you have a "protector". What happens if your "protector" puts you in a room to sleep it off, goes back to have a beer with the boss, and none of the funny business happens......"that you know about"!!!

My point, in case it is still escaping many of you, is this: you can't go around blaming everyone but yourself for things that happen to you if you ALLOW yourself to be so vulnerable. If you get drunk, drive home and on the way kill someone, who goes to jail? You , or the friend who should've taken your keys??? (psssssst...it's the one who was driving drunk) were they both wrong, hell yeah, but the buddy isn't going to spend his next few years behind bars, you are. You make decisions everyday and if you choose to drink til you lose consciousness, you can expect nasty things to happen.....it doesn't make those nasty things ok.... but it makes them more likely to occur, so please no more ridiculous backrubbing and soothing of a woman (or man) who puts themselves in harms way. They all screwed up, now live with it.

Yes the guys were way wrong, but that has never been disputed by myself or anyone else in this thread. But some pretty ridiculous things have been said which just are way off base.

[themonster]

one more to further illustrate the lack of credible thinking here......."you can sugar coat it anyway you want...rape=rape=rape....molest=molest=molest!!! "

and then in the same post a few sentances later.... "The next time he may allow this person or some other one to actually rape her..."

"actually rape her"???...wait a second.....I thought you were so dead set on the fact that it WAS rape and molesting the FIRST time????

....now your going to the "dark side" and agreeing with ME that it wasn't at all a rape/molestation. again either it was or wasn't....I say it wasn't and have never fluctuated....I see politics in your future.....

disclaimer: I in no way support the neglect/abuse/violation/or any other wrongdoings of/to anyone regardless of the situation, however I refuse to support anyone's denial that they are not inherently responsible for their own actions. I also keep things in perspective, did I mention that?

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by tribbles

She cannot be held responsible for her husband allowing someone to molest her while she is incapacitated
Without this I might have stopped cuz I do agree we aren't going to view this situation eye to eye and the best we can do is agree to disagree. But it sounds like you are mixing responsibility for alcohol abuse with responsibility for what her husband allowed. Two different wrongs, IMO, but both wrong. Not even equal in wrongness, what he allowed I would rate higher on the wrongness scale. I do think both are wrongs that can be learned from and the relationship can survive. And that is purely our opinion.

D and S

I agree with what you are trying to say, and agree that they both need to work on their relationship (ha bet you didn't see that one coming ). I guess what gets me upset is when people try to place the blame on a victom because he or she had too much to drink. Yes they do have a responsiblity to themselves to try not to get that incapacitated, but we all know that from time to time for what ever reason it can happen. I just think (and I am not so pollyanna in my views to think this is reality in any way shape or from) a person should be safe enough to know that if they are going to pass out, that the people they love, call friends or work with can be trusted to find them a place to recouperate with out fear of rape or molestation.

Yes she made a mistake. Yes hubby made a mistake and yes the worst offender in my book is the boss for being such a sleezebag. my point is that this kind of activity is not acceptable under any circumstances. I am not saying she should divorce the guy. I am saying he needs to own up to what happened, take his lumps, and then maybe they will take steps to see what can be done to repair the damage (depending obviouly on where her line is, he definately crossed my, but obviously each one of us has a different tollerance level).

So it's okay that we have a difference of opinon. I don't think the world has to agree with everything I say.

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by themonster

and this by EVILMJ ......"I have seen lots of people over do it at a party, but their SO managed to get them home without getting mauled by their boss."

... more ridiculous affirmation that it should be ok to lose total control over your bodily functions to the point that you are not aware that someone is "raping, molesting, or assaulting " you because you have a "protector". What happens if your "protector" puts you in a room to sleep it off, goes back to have a beer with the boss, and none of the funny business happens......"that you know about"!!!

My point, in case it is still escaping many of you, is this: you can't go around blaming everyone but yourself for things that happen to you if you ALLOW yourself to be so vulnerable. If you get drunk, drive home and on the way kill someone, who goes to jail? You , or the friend who should've taken your keys??? (psssssst...it's the one who was driving drunk) were they both wrong, hell yeah, but the buddy isn't going to spend his next few years behind bars, you are. You make decisions everyday and if you choose to drink til you lose consciousness, you can expect nasty things to happen.....it doesn't make those nasty things ok.... but it makes them more likely to occur, so please no more ridiculous backrubbing and soothing of a woman (or man) who puts themselves in harms way. They all screwed up, now live with it.

Yes the guys were way wrong, but that has never been disputed by myself or anyone else in this thread. But some pretty ridiculous things have been said which just are way off base.

I can appreciate it when people have differing opions, however I don't appreciate it when you take it to a level where you feel you have to personally attack others for having a differing opinon.