My husband played after I fell asleep

[JustAskJulie]

I have to agree with TNT here, I don't think RNDNV presented their argument in the best way, but they do have some valid points.

My first question to you was why did you have her in the middle? And why if you were uncomfortable with your husband carressing her did you not change that sleeping arrangement right then?

By putting her in the middle and you on the outside and having already engaged in play along with your earlier comment about them having sex after you fall asleep you basically did open the door and give permission for them to walk through it.

Next question, did you and your husband previously to this have an agreement that nothing would happen without both of you being involved (not present - remember you were present) but involved?

Yes, regardless they still carry some fault here. The long conversations - I assume you were present for them, was he talking to her as much as she was talking to him? Or was he primarily there on the phone listening? If it's the latter then yes you can accept his excuse. If it was the former and he was actually TALKING on the phone where he normally does not, then yes you had every right to be concerned and should have acted on that.

As others have pointed out, you saw the red flags and most likely at this point you are mad at yourself (if not moreso) than you are at him, for not doing anything to stop things before they got this far.

[Alura]

There has been some wonderful advice in this thread. It's hard to add to it, but I agree there is plenty of fault to go around in this case. The key is to accept and admit that and carry on from here.

I'm not so sure I'd give up on that couple based on what happened that night. Perhaps it is necessary for the safety of your marriage, but I can't help but feel they might be scratching their heads and wondering, "Just what the hell happened????"

There is a need to discuss limits, particularly exactly what constitutes "making love" since that, in itself, must be defined by each couple.

I'm not sure the problem can be solved by quitting swinging. There is likely to be some resentment on the part of your husband, especially if he feels you overreacted.

One of our rules is: Regardless of what happens during the evening's play, we always sleep together. We tell our playmates of this rule up-front. Our last act of an evening of play has been to make love together. There is no room for others to be involved when we "make love."

Mr. Alura

[RNDNV]

Dear Adventureus, at the end of the day, what comes through loud and clear as the biggest issue you are dealing with is your own insecurity. Many couples (not all, but many) get to a point in their swinging life where they are comfortable with seperate room play, even with relative strangers. I am not saying that is for you and yours, but there is certainly room to grow for you guys, and I agree with most others that most of that growth needs to be in the area of your guy's communication. My main point is that you and your hubby may be in different places, comfort wise, with the Lifestyle, and it sounds like you need a sit down to define who's "pace of play" is the slower/more sensitive one, and agree to go at that person's pace (it sounds like yours, and if so, it is okay to say "hey I need this in order for this swinging thing to continue to happen").

Unlike what others are picking up from my prior posts, I am not here to bag on you, but to support you in being more than you currently see yourself. Beating yourself up is NOT productive. Really examining what happened, how it happened and came about, and learning from it so that you can move on IS the productive thing you should do. In otherwords, don't use this event to give you an excuse to beat up on yourself (unless you really want to in order to support some low self-concept you are subconsciously carrying around about yourself), that is not going to get you anything, and like someone else said, it may have the effect of driving your hubby away.

My last point is to emphazise a position counter to what most everyone else is saying, and that is, I still am not convinced that your husband has done anything wrong here. That said, I want you to be clear that I don't thing you have done anything wrong either. Both of you made some choices, and the result of those choices now have given you "stuff" to work on. But the whole blame game (who is wrong, who is right) isn't going to get either of you anywhere. Just look at what happened (together), and sit down and have a non-accusatory conversation about what worked, and what didn't (for both of you) and recommit to making your next journey down the swing path a better one because of what you learned from this event.

[DBL D]

There's just something about being an asshole, and I don't think it is the fact that you are feeling lower on the food chain or anything like it. I think you said that because you felt that someone had to make a tough decision and it was you. Mistakenly, we call people like them assholes sometimes when we all know that someone has to do it every so often.

My point is that it isn't getting you anywhere in your relationship that is positive. Work on trust, communication and maybe even bartering to get where you need to be, but don't give up! Please?

Male D

[twoplayful2]

Adventureus,

I think all were at fault, some more than others, but all enough that nobody should be singled out. I agree with much of what RND says but I do think that your husband did make some mistakes here for sure. But nothing that bad, just a little bad form on top of some poor communication. I also think that you might have been testing your husband a little bit with letting the other women stay over, letting yourself fall asleep without being in the middle or it or letting them know in some way that it's not okay for them to play without you. I think after the 4-hour phone calls you had some feelings and wanted to test them out. I think you got what you felt was confirmation of your feelings and you got pissed off about it. But I do not think that the confirmation was necessarily valid. Just because he's enjoying the attention a little too much doesn't mean he's falling for her. Just because he has slower, more sensual, passionate sex with her doesn't mean they were "making love". It was probably just something different for him.

I also agree with whoever said that the you are pushing him away by the way you're currently acting. This isn't to say you're not justified in feeling or acting this way, it's just to say that it's not going to get you the best results.

Though I know it's very difficult because of some understandably strong feelings and emotions, I think the solution is pretty simple. You need to forget about blaming him and let him know that. You need to both agree that it was just a situation that went the wrong way (if it's wrong for one, it's wrong for both). It doesn't matter that he's not accepting full blame for this, as long as he now understands your feelings and is totally accepting what you two do from here.

As for this couple, IMO it should just be cut off regardless of who was at fault. 4-hour conversations are going to be too difficult to just turn off. Stuff that's happened and feelings that remain are just going to make things too complicated, and that's not what the "lifestyle" should be all about. You need to just move on and put it all behind you.

And this "I'm the asshole" stuff should be stopped. It's an angry response, and if you're using it with him then it needs to stop.

[twoplayful2]

Originally Posted by DBL D

the fact that you are feeling lower on the food chain or anything like it. I think you said that because you felt that someone had to make a tough decision and it was you.

BTW, I don't agree that is the purpose of "I'm the asshole" here. It's probably not so much about her feeling bad as it is about her feeling she's losing the fight. When someone feels like they lose too many arguments they often resort to "okay, whatever, I'm wrong as usual, I'm the asshole once again", etc, etc. The problem has become a point that needs to be won more than something that needs to be worked out. Adventureus understandably feels very hurt and confused in this but needs to somehow get herself calmed down and thinking rationally about all of the points people brought up here (whether they're for or against her decisions) and her current situation. "I'm the asshole" is just throwing in the towel, and while that's fine to do with us, I don't think it's something she can do in this particular situation with her husband.

[DBL D]

Hey twoplayful,

I get what you're saying but I'm just relating how it was used in our situation.

I do think that if the lady wasn't reacting so strongly (maybe over-reacting?) that they would both (Hubby & Wifey) feel better about each other in the future. People can't just expect that they can lay out all the plans as to how they want things to go and then quit when things happen differently. We've definitely changed our thoughts about the lifestyle and sometimes those changes were made "on the fly".

Hope she can forgive and forget.

Male D

[4 is better]

I agree with Corkwan.

You need to forgive yourself and your husband. Taking a break is a good idea as well. It will give you a chance to rebuild your relationship and improved your communication skills. The most important thing should be the relationship you have to each other. This may mean taking a step back from swinging for the short term and learning to reconnect and trust one another again. You may want to look at why you were reluctant to speak up when you felt uncomfortable with the relationship your husband was developing with the other women. The only way swinging will work is if you are willing to be totally honest, that includes sharing feelings of insecurity and mistrust.

Another thing you may want to look into is why your husband was on the phone for hours at a time. Maybe he was getting something from the phone conversation that he wasn’t getting from home. But then again, it may have just been the initial rush you get when you flirt with someone new. This is one of the attractions of swinging. You need to determine what it was.

Finally, anger has a way of clouding your judgment and not letting you see things rationally. Get over the anger and start working on your relationship. The longer the anger builds the harder it is to overcome; it tends to take on a life of its own.

[midnight hour]

This is one reason we don't do the phone thing at all. Other then calling to se if someone needs more directions or if they are coming etc. Too much of a chance to get too personal..I know a lot will not do the computer thing and only do the phone so we are kinda against the grain. I don't like the fact of another man having my phone number to *just call* or a woman with Mr. Midnights number just to talk. Makes it wayyyyyy to personal to me. we will im forever, go into chats etc. but we can save copies of them. That way if we feel someone is too pushy or too personal we can both look at it and go hmmm..we have ran into some couples also who don't like the concept we tell the other who and what we talked about for what ever reason we hear don't you trust...trust has nothing to do with it....we just need to know everyone is on the same page...we run into men who are talking a whole different game from the woman...and that we need to know...since Mr. Midnight works nights we are not online a lot together but at different times. And I know one rule unspoken would be no one else in the bed after it was done. That is what couches and extra bedrooms are for...if anyone snuggles with Mr. Midnight it will be me, and I can not see me snuggling with another man with Mr. Midnight there..or any sex happening with one of us asleep...I feel for you....try to talk...

Midnight Hour

[amBIdextrous]

Having just joined I am reluctant to buy into that one. I cannot help feeling that adventureUS may have been insecure about swinging, the effect it may have on her relationship etc.etc. What the whole thing needs is honest straight talk, no heated accusations, and to get your husband to understand why you felt that way.
After all I assume you all had sex together in various ways, and your husband maybe reliving what happened, the memory just got him horny one more time.
I cannot help feeling that insecurity got the better of you, and sincerely hope that you two can work it out between yourselves, and put the whole thing down to experience. We never stop learning about ourselves, our partners, or friends.
I keep my fingers crossed for the both of you, and hope to hear that it all ended well.
Love can overcome anything. Hate mostly hurts the hater.

[Mr.Hyde]

My wife did the same thing that your husband did except she skipped the whole making love thing and just fucked him. How did I feel about it? I totally understood it and actually thought it was fine given the circumstances. We were all sleeping in the same bed, completely naked, with her in between us, and we had just gotten through having sex all night. I couldnt exactly say that it was a shocker. I might have done the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot unless we had specific rules specifying otherwise.And I would have certainly entertained the thought if my wife had alluded to it right before we layed down beside one another. I guess I'm saying that you have every right to feel weird about it. Anybody has a right to feel weird about anything that they wish to. I just wouldnt necessarily treat him like you found out he was banging his secretary behind your back given the circumstances. This might just be one you want to put in the books under the never do again category and try to move forward.

Hyde

[wethere]

You may have hit the nail on the head, in that you may not be cut out for this. If the role was reversed would your husand have a problem with it. Give this some thought and good luck in the future.

[WildMainePussy]

Don't forget to have the phone company block that particular phone number from getting through to your home. If the history of long phone calls is as long as you say, she might not just give up and go away that easily. Calls to the work place are usually discouraged by management so it won't be that easy to reach him there.

I put up with 2-3 hour phone calls my ex-hubby got from a woman he was obsessed with for 2 years while I was trying to work on saving our marriage. The phone company at that time wasn't so sophisicated then and there was nothing I could do. I completely understand the seething rage you feel on that one. Don't let it overcome you.

[sensuality]

WMP...I totally agree with you. An excellent idea!!

[mde 4764]

Bases on the story told, it appears that most of the blame and responsibility for what happened is being placed on the husband. In fact I didn't see where you accepted any responsibility in the matter. All I hear is poor pitiful me and don't you all agree that I should feel the way I do.

You agreed to have this woman come over and play with you and your husband and said that you all had a blast. Joking or not, you did give them permission to fuck after you went to sleep. Now, because they did, you get pissed at your husband and it's his fault because you feel the way you do. If the shoe was on the other foot, would your husband be pissed if you had been fucking while he was asleep?

I think that if you want to save your marriage you need to get over your self pity and being mad at your husband for not being a mind reader. Your actions are pushing him away. You need to go to him in a non confrontational manner and attempt to talk this out before it is to late, if it isn't already so. I feel sorry for you and your situation, but you aren't doing anything to try to straighten it out either.