Changing the "Rules" or more Broken Agreements

[masscpl469]

Hi. Male 1/2 of a couple here.

A little bit of background(sorry for the length):
I always enjoyed watching 3somes, etc in adult films especially MFM, and my wife and I did a lot of "pillow talk" for many years. She always resisted going out and actually acting on our fantasies. About 5 years ago, we took the plunge and met someone we chatted with online. He was also married but was allowed to play alone. After meeting in a bar, we ended up in a hotel room and had a good time. We met him again a few weeks later. I started to suggest bi-activities to my wife (her and another woman). She ended up going out with the the new friend and his wife while I stayed at home. The reason is that my wife was not comfortable at all with me being in the same room as another woman, let alone "with" another woman. She always made that clear. I enjoyed the idea of her being with a couple and coming home to give me the details. We met other couples socially and she would end up in the bedroom with them, but without methe ever elusive bi-female that couples are looking for!). One night I surprised her and had the original couple show up at our house. I told them they should go downstairs and have fun and I was glad just to listen in. My wife siad I should come into the room and watch. I hesitated, but after hearing all the moans, I entered the room. It was great watching all the action, and then my wife wanted me to join in - with her only. I hesitated, but eventually obliged, and I thought we had a great time .

We had several other MFM's with just the husband, but for various reasons stopped playing. After several years, we decided to get back into the scene. We met another guy though the internet who arranged gangbangs. We initially met him and had a MFM. This was followed by a couple more encounters. My wife started to ask for some initial 'alone time' with him and then I would join in.

I then set up a 3-on-1 (me plus 2 guys), although she indicated she was nervous about it. I went ahead with the plans and she had her 1st (mini) GB. She said I shouldn't have set this up, but that she did have a good time. Over the next 6 months or so, we would party about every 5 or 6 weeks. Once was with a couple plus 3 guys (I was not there, because she still felt uncomfortable about me being around another woman). All the other times was with me and other guys, usually a total of 3 or 4 guys. She would usually ask for some time with the guys alone to relax and loosen up, and then I would join the party. It was great seeing her enjoying herself with other men - a real turn-on for me, as well as joining in (I'm not just a "watcher").

She would occasionally mention to me that she would like to share me with another woman, but only orally. Kind of a soft swing thing. She is mildly bi, and I told her I could think of a lot of different positions either with another woman, or a couple, which was also discusssed. She felt that the other woman would need a man there to satisfy her, because she wasn't getting near me (except oral). Because I knew she didn't feel comfortable with this, I never really pushed for it, and decided to let it take it's course - and I would be one happy man if it ever transpired.

We continued the mini GBs and she even had another party with another couple plus 3 guys. But after a couple of 'bad' parties, we started thinking about our options. About this time, we met another man online. We ended up meeting him at a restaurant, and then up to the hotel room. My wife hit it off well with this guy, and, in addition, he was nicely built and "well-equipped". The second time we met him, she asked for an hour or so of "alone time" with him. I hesitated, because I usually join in after about 10 or 15 minutes. I felt like that was quite a bit of time, but agreed, as long as she felt safe. During this encounter and the previous ones, I would also listen from outside the room, which was another turn-on for me.

Here's where it gets a little complicated. My wife started having second thoughts about the number of guys she had been with and wanted to cut back. Although we always played safe, we agreed to be more selective and careful. A closer circle of "regulars" so to speak. She mentioned that our new friend was inquiring about a 1-on-1 encounter, which made me feel uncomfortable. I asked if he meant 1-on-1, with me joining later, or not. She said she wasn't sure. She also says that our new friend says he needs to get to know me better so that all this works out. I reply that he has my #, but has not contacted me.

He arranged for a mini GB; him us and one other guy that he felt was safe. She did the usual "alone time" before I joined in, and we all had the usual good-time party. Shortly after this she said that our new friend had asked for a 1-on-1 without me. I objected and we started having arguments. I said that I was always there, except when there was another woman. That I wasn't comfortable with it. She said I had set up scenes that she wasn't comfortable with, like the couple, and moving too fast with the multiple guy thing. She said it was something different that she wanted to try, and that I shouldn't be so selfish. I conceded and she met this guy. She was gone for almost 4 1/2 hours, all the while I was pacing the floor. She immediately jumped me when she returned (she says that she always has to have me after our parties and it's the best f*ck of the night). We talked about it some more afterwards, and I told her I still didn't feel comfortable about it. More arguments. I told her that I didn't even get to "listen in" while she was alone with him. She said she got off on the idea of being a 'bad girl' without me being there, then coming home and getting 'punished' by me. I replied that I really didn't get much out the whole scenario. She responded with the familiar "I did all these things for you, why can't you do this for me?" question. Yes, she did agree to do some things that I had wanted, and maybe not necessarily her, but I thought she was getting 'some' enjoyment out of being GB'd by some nice-looking guys. She told to me that she mentioned another GB to our new friend, "before he got the wrong idea about the 1-on-1's". I asked if that was all he was interested in, and she said that she thought he liked those more because he never got to enjoy that. He was always involved in GBs and always had to 'share'. A week after the 1st 1-on-1, she tells me he wants to have another, and she does too. Off she goes while I stay behind, anxious, but maybe not as much as the first time. She comes home all wired up and we have a good, but not great time (she was gone another 4+hours, while our session only lasts about 1 1/2). She also tells me that he's setting up a GB for the following week. This GB was going to be us plus 3 other guys.

For a variety of reasons, this GB does not transpire (travel, schedules, etc). In the meantime, my wife has been having almost daily contact with our new friend, and again mentions playing only with a small, select group. Maybe some couples, since this is considered somewhat safer. I propose an MFM with us and our new friend, but she hesitates. She explains that she and he both feel that there's tension when I'm there, and that we're not compatible. (She's compatible with me and compatible with him, but not the 3 of us together - got it?) I suggest the other "safe" friend that he had invited to the last party, but the question never really gets answered.

It has now been over 2 months since the last GB party that i was at. It's been about 5 weeks since her last 1-on-1. She has mentioned the 1-on-1 fantasy again and coming home and getting 'punished'. She says I have to act this out to make it work. I suggested that she has a 1-on-1 where I "catch her 'cheating'" and join in on the party; she still hesistates because of our"incompatibility".

We are still having some of the best sex we've ever had, but there seems to be something 'hanging in the air'. I'm expecting another 1-on-1, which I honestly don't get too excited about. She mentions one other friend that we've partied with, but because of distance and schedules, we could only party with 2 or 3 times a year. Talk of meeting other couples has died off. My question: is it reasonable for my wife to have 1-on-1 encounters every 6 weeks or so(maybe more often) which I don't feel totally comfortable with, because she "did what I wanted her to do" for a year or two? This is not a cuckhold type of relationship, if anyone is wondering.

Again, sorry for the length of this 'summary' - and thanks for your replies. I'd also be interested in hearing how many wives go out and play 'alone'.

[misterbates]

Umm..no offence but i think if you look up cuckhold in the dictionary you'll find your picture......

Let me get this straight...your wife does 1 on 1 s,(even though you say you are uncomfortable with this)...also...she gets with couples and you are only ALLOWED to listen at the door???...Dude you got some serious problems there...you say you are expressing to her your displeasure with the situation and she refuses to understand ,but rather blames you and says she did everything for you...then i would say that she is a very selfish and controlling woman.
She says she is uncomfortable with you around other women...but i would say its more of a control thing with her....she gets off on the fact that she can do as she pleases and you have to obey her very strict rules...what would happen if you said "No more "...i bet it'd be a big fight!.....

You need to stand up for yourself and stop it right now.....unless of course you deep down like the humiliation???

MrB facelick

[CB_n_Red]

It looks to me as though you are very uncomfortable with the situation, both the unequal nature of what has gone on in the past (she gets to play with others and you don't) and the current situation of your wife playing away without you.

On that basis things should be slowing down to the point where both of you are comfortable with what you are doing. You clearly aren't so your wife needs to rein herself in (the old "progress at the speed of the slowest" routine - a very sound approach).

It would appear that the one on ones are the problem (they would be for either of us! Big time!). I reckon that would be a problem for most swingers and probably particularly for those here on the Board. There have been a few threads lately where this sort of situation has come up. The end results are rarely very pretty.

I can offer no easy solution but I would suggest that the playing needs to stop until you sort your relationship with your wife out. I worry that she refers to "incompatibility". That's a big red flag as well.

To answer your final question - neither of us play alone. Not always in the same room, but always close by.

CB

[20ishCouple]

Hey there....Ms. 20ish here. In My Opinion, I don't think that it's really fair for her to use the " I did everything you wanted me to do" card everytime she and he feel the need for a lil 1-on-1. I think that you letting her have a 1-on-1 even though you felt uncomfortable was very brave of you. I am also not comfortable RIGHT NOW with another female with my Mr., but I wouldn't ever keep him out of the loop so much. When there is any encounter, he is there, the same room, he would agree to just listen, but I'd never leave the house and go off for 4 or 5 hours and expect Mr. 20ish to be okay. I wouldn't want it done to me, therefore I could never do that to him. If it was what he wanted me to do, I would consider it, but would have a hard time feeling comfortable doing it while he was not even in the same building. Ya know what I mean? I understand needing to get to know someone before an encounter, to make you feel more comfortable. But how can He or She expect you to be comfortable with something if you are never invited to get to know the new person either. The Single Guy that you talked about in your post, obviously just wants your wife to his self. To me that isn't cool, from a woman's point of view, its sexy for another man to want you all to his self, but this is only causing problems within your relationship...is totally wrong. I think that you guys need a break from the lifestyle. I understand that you want to please your wife, but I think that you've more than made up for "all the things she did for you" it's time you just tell her that it makes you feel uncomfortable, you are not happy with it, and that you would like you guys to take a well needed break from the lifestyle and work on things between you. Trust me, it will be much better for you in the long run. If you wanna make your relationship work, you need to talk it out and tell her that IF and When you guys are ready to get back into swinging, it must be a mutual thing that you do together, and set ground rule #1.....No 1-on-1's if it makes you uncomfortable. I don't know that my reply will help you or not, but maybe it will give you a lil piece of mind knowing that there is someone else who can understand why you feel like you do. My thoughts are with you and I really hope that you and your lady work things out and move past this. Swinging is fun, but definately not worth losing you love over.

Thanks for listening...Ms. 20ish ~

[wetpanties]

Swinging is about sharing - What she is doing is cheating with permission. She isn't sharing anything with you. It appears that she just wants your permission to screw around and she has removed you from the fun. It appears that her priority is to satisfy the wants and needs to her "other lover" and she doesn't care about how you feel. I agree with misterbates that she is a very selfish and controlling woman. It's long past the time for you two to have a serious talk and eveluate what she is doing without you and what she is doing to your relationship. I was going to wish you good luck but you need more than luck. Your relationship is in serious trouble and I would suggest that ALL outside activity be immediately terminated.

[Denver2some]

misterbates has a good point about the control factor. One of the classic signs of a controlling personality is to keep a "scoreboard." As in ... "I did this for you, so now you need to do this for me." The scoreboard is trotted out for display, whenever the controlling person wants something from you.

You need to take a stand, no question about it.

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by masscpl469

I propose an MFM with us and our new friend, but she hesitates. She explains that she and he both feel that there's tension when I'm there, and that we're not compatible. (She's compatible with me and compatible with him, but not the 3 of us together - got it?)

If the three of you aren't compatible, then nobody plays. Your comfort (as well as hers) should come before any playmate. I can tell you right now, if my husband put a lover's desires over mine, we'd never swing again.

That's just waaaaay uncool.

I admire all the leway you've allowed your wife so far. ...but enough is enough. This is way past being confident in your relationship and being generous. You're losing the respect you deserve.

Find a way to compromise with her, tell her either you get a few extracuricular activities you want (ie: another woman), or her cuckolding days are over.

Good Luck. Let us know what happens.

[JustAskJulie]

I think Misterbates hit it on the head. You guys aren't swinging, you are the cuckold. You are sitting back and your wife is doing what she wants while you wait at home for her to return.

Swinging is about both people and swinging is not for everyone, and it definately doesn't sound like it is for the two of you.

The real issue here is your relationship and how this is affecting it, and it sounds like it is affecting it both positively and negatively... making your sex life better, but the rest of your relationship worse as you continue to feel left out.

We can't tell you what to do here, all we can do is tell you how we would feel in your position and I think most of us would agree that were we in your position, enough would be enough and with only one person getting what they want ALL the time while the other person constantly gives in (regardless of what the situation is - sexual or not), that can't go on forever and something has to change.

As far as "broken agreements" go, it doesn't sound like you guys ever had any agreements to begin with, which is a problem to start.

[jcbicouple]

Dito to everyone else. Swinging is about both of you and both of you need to be comfortable and enjoying what is happening. Your wife needs to put you first: Not her lover.
Frankly, If you were both enjoying this little senerio she likes to play out it wouldn't be a big deal, but you aren't enjoying it. Therefore it's no longer something you're doing together; It's her going out with some guy and leaving you home. You two need to talk and and re-establish comfort levels. If she isn't willing to do that, and blames you for anything: We'd suggest stopping everything to do with swinging (or going out to have sex with her "friend") all together!

[emptynest]

Everyone who has replied to you seems to be in agreement that you have a problem. We have been swinging for 20 years and I think we've seen it all and I can tell you that what your wife is doing is destined to destroy your marriage. Both my wife and I have wanted alone time with certain partners from time to time. It is natural I think. It requires confidence in your relationship with your spouse to let them be alone with someone, and even then it should be done in the next room while you are with the other spouse but definitely not while you are at home pacing the floor! In the case of MFM threesomes, I have never known of a woman wanting to be with the other guy for an hour before the husband joins. Like JCBicouple said, swinging is about both of you. Regarding your wife using the "I Did what you wanted me to do" card, keeping score is unhealthy because " The injuries we do and those we suffer are seldom weighed on the same scale.

[curiousagain]

KNOCK KNOCK!!!
McFly!!!!

This single guy enjoying one one one time with your wife while you pace the floor isn't swinging.
HE'S FUCKING YOUR WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's all I have to add to all the good advice and wake up calls you have received so far.

Personally, this would stop today even if it meant ALL swinging had to stop right now. She wants to keep score?? Tally up her one on one times and stop them now until YOU CATCH UP!!! Think she'll think that's fair???
I doubt it??

[CB_n_Red]

Originally Posted by emptynest

Regarding your wife using the "I Did what you wanted me to do" card, keeping score is unhealthy because " The injuries we do and those we suffer are seldom weighed on the same scale.

Good point! Keeping score is definitely a big in our book. It can only lead to problems.

CB

[JnCC]

Well, I guess the general consensus in here is that this is all "a bad thing" and that your marriage is doomed. Personally, I don't see what the problem is with all this.

Let's recap. You originally had fantasies of your wife getting hosed by another man. So, you arranged for that to happen. So far, so good. But after a while, you decide that one guy isn't enough, so you add a second. That's OK for a while, but you soon become jaded by the idea that "only" 2 guys are nailing her, so you add a third, and eventually a fourth. Many times, you aren't even there for a significant portion of whatever is going on, so she asks for, and you grant her, "time alone" with these guys.

Your role in this fantasy of yours is getting to be a smaller and smaller percentage of the whole. Her role is becoming less and less of human being, and more of an "object" of men's pleasure. That's when this new guy comes along...

He doesn't want to share her with a bunch of other guys. He listens to her when she says she's not comfortable with what you've been asking her to do. He holds her, cuddles with her during their "alone time," shares secrets (most likely about you) during their afternoon conversations. In short, he makes her feel "special."

He's not going to call you to ask for a "1-on-1." He thinks you're a dick. So does she. But she's going to try to hook you up with somebody, so she can carry on at will with her new lover. Of course, that's not what you're interested in...

This is all just fuckin' beautiful, that's what I say! She's finally met a man who doesn't find his pleasure in her degradation. Her fantasy has finally come true!

And you wanted to be cuckolded? I'd say you finally reached the "Diamond Level" of humiliation and cuckoldry, pal. You've been writing yourself out of your own movie for years now. I guess your fantasy has finally come true as well.

She's got what she wanted, you've got what you wanted. I reckon you 2 ought to be about the happpiest people in all of Massachusetts about now.

Where's the problem in that?

[Vespertine]

Interesting twist, JnCC.

I think you might be on to something......