If you are emotionally hurt should your partner also feel your pain?

[larryt9]

This is almost incidental to swinging, but a swinging situation brought it on, so here it is.
Michelle and I have been going to a swingers club for almost a year now. Up until recently, we only stayed with each other (watch/be watched only). Recently we decided to up it a notch. An activity took place that, afterwoods, I felt uncomfortable with. I do not blame Michelle at all. Since then we discussed it, changed our rules a little, went back, and had a great time.
The few days after the incident, I expressed to Michelle that I was hurting. Not that she hurt me, I went out of my way to make sure she knew I in absolutely no way blamed her. The whole thing really wasn't even that big a deal. But I still hurt. And I told her, just in the effort to honestly communicate.
Now my question about love. I love Michelle, and she me. If you tell someone you hurt (and again, not only did I not blame her, but I can safely say she did not feel any guilt, as well she shouldn't have), shouldn't they acknowledge that hurt? Shouldn't they hurt a little, simply because I hurt some? Can you love someone with all your heart, and not share some of that hurt, as opposed to just "OK, we won't do that again". Is love just "I love you" "I love you too"?
Am I just a big freaking wimp, who should just have a good cry while watching Lifetime TV and eating Hagen Das? Am I just expecting way too much?
Do I need to just toughen up, take her at her word that she loves me, shut up, don't look a gift horse in the mouth, and go back to the swing clubs with her for the rest of my life and f*** my brains out?
Thanks
Larry

[MoonShadow]

Originally Posted by larryt9

Now my question about love. I love Michelle, and she me. If you tell someone you hurt (and again, not only did I not blame her, but I can safely say she did not feel any guilt, as well she shouldn't have), shouldn't they acknowledge that hurt? Shouldn't they hurt a little, simply because I hurt some? Can you love someone with all your heart, and not share some of that hurt, as opposed to just "OK, we won't do that again". Is love just "I love you" "I love you too"?

This is a hard question, because of course we expect our loved ones to share our pain, although I doubt many take that literally. However, IMHO, you sound a bit passive-aggressive here. Something happened that caused you emotional pain. You discussed the incident and fixed your rules, but that discussion didn't help the pain. Now you want her to hurt the way you're hurting.
Perhaps you didn't discuss the emotion behind the pain with her: was it jealousy, betrayal, anger? Without knowing which emotion caused it, discussing the pain doesn't really address much. It would be like discussing a physical pain without addressing it's location... there's not much to talk about. "Man, I hurt." "Take some tylenol." She may have a hard time being sympathetic without more details about your pain.
Also, it's possible that she may consider the pain to be self-inflicted, due to lack of communication before the big day. This may limit the sympathy she gives you. She may also be feeling defensive about the incident, especially if you made a big deal of the "Now, I don't blame you..." part of it all. This would also make it harder for her to truly sympathize.
Perhaps in the ideal, romantic marriage we've all been socialized to expect, simply the fact of your pain would hurt her.... unfortunately, real life's a lot more messy.

Sympathetically,
MoonShadow

[TNT]

From what I'm reading...she's not reacting the way you want her to. How is she suppose to share in your hurt? What actions or words could she say or do that would make you feel that yes, she acknowledges your pain?

Originally Posted by larryt9

Now my question about love. I love Michelle, and she me. If you tell someone you hurt (and again, not only did I not blame her, but I can safely say she did not feel any guilt, as well she shouldn't have), shouldn't they acknowledge that hurt? Shouldn't they hurt a little, simply because I hurt some? Can you love someone with all your heart, and not share some of that hurt, as opposed to just "OK, we won't do that again". Is love just "I love you" "I love you too"?

I'm not sure that she can really "share" your pain...it's your pain, not her's. Yes, when you love someone you do hurt when they hurt but it's more because they are hurting, not necessarily because you "share" the same pain. Unless it was something that happened in your life that is a mutual hurt...can you really share the same pain?

You said that you don't blame her and that she does not feel guilty and that you don't feel she should feel guilty but....are you upset because you do feel that she is to blame and you do want her to feel guilty?

I think you need to examine why you feel that she is not acknowledging your pain and then communicate that to her.

If swinging is something that brought on your hurt and you can't get over it, then STOP swinging and rebuild the relationship.


Teresa

[LetsParty]

I have to totally agree with Teresa's comment:

"I'm not sure that she can really "share" your pain...it's your pain, not her's."

That's so true.

Life is all about perspective.

She may have walked out of that encounter thinking, "oh yeah! That was quite fun!"

You, on the other hand, had quite the different reaction.

It's hard to adjust our "lenses" through which we see the world to those of someone else's. "I feel bad that you're hurting" is not the same as "I share your hurt".

With respect to your discussion on "Love", well, I would consider looking beyond the superficial.

What is "love" altogether? "I love her and she loves me."

I think it's a ridiculously overused word that has way too many meanings.

In some languages, there are about 15 different variations of the word alone.

In English, we love our wives; we love our kids; we love Def Leppard; we love our dog; we love our cars; we love our parents; we love our sisters; we have torrent love affairs.

I know of plenty of people who love their wives, and even express it aloud, before they beat them to a pulp. Or fathers who love their kids and burn them with cigarettes.

Your relationship is a personal thing.
There are two people involved.
"If she loves me then....?"
"Isn't love......?"
"If I take her on her word that she loves me...."

I dunno, dude.

I feel very bad that you're hurting. Yet I think it's great that you guys pushed the envelope a bit. Yet, I would continue to have further discussions with her.

If she's thinkin' "WOW! That was kinda fun!!" and you are feeling all weirded out.... Two normal reactions... then my one little bit of advice would be talk, talk, talk and listen, listen, listen. To each other.

This could have been an issue over religion, money, or anything else.

Hash it out until you feel better.

That's what I would do.

[larryt9]

Thanks for the replys. But just to clarify a little, I don't expect her to share my hurt over the incident itself. We've talked that out, and had no trouble modifying our rules a touch. We've since been back to the club and had an awesome night, with only positive feelings from it, and are both looking foward to going again, no hesitation on either of our parts.

I guess I would of just liked to hear "We'll be more careful from now on because I don't want anything we do to ever cause you, or either of us, any hurt." I just wanted to hear some emotion from her, again, not for what she/we did, but only because I expressed to her that I hurt a little. Instead, it was just "OK, won't happen again".

I love her, and I know she loves me, but I can't help thinking that maybe I need to expose just a hair less of my heart, just put up one thin layer of protection, not because I'm afraid of getting hurt by anything we do, I'm willing to take that chance, but because if something does happen, and I express that to her, that something caused me a little pain, well, lets just say I'm more afraid of the response (or lack therof) I'll get, and thats what would really hurt.
Larry

[MoonLightKiss]

As humans we do not always respond with the exact answers our partners are looking for. Many times my husband has asked me something or told me something and my reaction was not what he wanted it to be. Sometimes he thought I simply didn't care and vice versa. Not putting into the words you are looking for, does not always mean that she doesn't feel that way.

But sugar, IMHO "OK, won't happen again" meant "We'll be more careful from now on because I don't want anything we do to ever cause you, or either of us, any hurt."

Ok, she didn't respond with the exact wording you were looking for. And maybe at the time it seemed she was simply blowing it off. But if she loves you, and you asure us she does, then that's exactly what she meant. Is it possible she was tired, busy, distracted, or something else at the time of the discussion. My husband and I have had to tweak a few boundaries here and there. Many times I have said "OK wont happen again" and so has he. It's not that we love each other less...its because we love each other that we say it won't happen again. Its because we don't want to hurt the other one that we say it won't happen again.

Sit down with her, and tell her how her response made you feel. I would bet money that she doesn't know. Tell her exactly what you wanted to hear. I got a twenty dollar bill here that says she looks at you and says "But that's what I meant." Tell her that while you know what she means by shortening her answer, it feels nice to hear the long version full of I love you's and I don't ever want to hurt you's. She won't know what you need to hear unless you tell her.

I do hope I am not drummed out of the women's club for revealing this tidbit to you men, but we are not mind readers, even though we pretend to be.

I guess I would of just liked to hear "We'll be more careful from now on because I don't want anything we do to ever cause you, or either of us, any hurt." I just wanted to hear some emotion from her, again, not for what she/we did, but only because I expressed to her that I hurt a little. Instead, it was just "OK, won't happen again".

I think that this response that you recieved back from her is normal. There are times where "I am sorry" just doesn't cover it either on the end receiving the apology or the one giving it. We all express our emotions differently and I would say that if your wife loves you as much as you say she does then she knows what pain this situation has caused and she knows that there are changes to be made in order for this to work. I do not think that her response was to hurt you more and maybe the way the conversation went between the two of you, this was the way she needed to respond at that time.

I love her, and I know she loves me, but I can't help thinking that maybe I need to expose just a hair less of my heart, just put up one thin layer of protection, not because I'm afraid of getting hurt by anything we do, I'm willing to take that chance, but because if something does happen, and I express that to her, that something caused me a little pain, well, lets just say I'm more afraid of the response (or lack therof) I'll get, and thats what would really hurt.
Larry

I would say that the comments here would not be necessary if you truely feel that she loves you and is not out to hurt you. It is normal in life to want to put up that wall to protect ourselves from being hurt, but sometimes those emtions still exist and cannot be protected. The less you show, the more she may think you no longer care of what affects different events have on your marriage. We all are afraid to get hurt, but you have to allow for her to express her emotions the way she needs too as well as how you need to. Being afraid of the response you get is normal, and I experience that with MrVan in the lifestyle. Any time we find ourselves in a situation that hurt one of us, we both tend to fear the response and are hesitant to react or respond in fear of hurting the other. There are times where MrVan will do something in the lifestyle that I am not comfortable with, and I react as you do afraid of what the response will be when I tell him how it made me feel. And sometimes he reacts like your wife and as long as I know he heard my feelings, listened to what I had to say and realized we needed to make a change, then I know that he realizes how it hurt me. If he was to look at me and say "your making a big deal out of something that is not" then yes I thinnk I would be upset that he did not recognize my feelings.

So I think what your feeling is normal and you just have to be able to open up to your wife and express your feelings but know that she may not react the way your wanting her to react.

For you both to be able to talk the problem over, for you to express how you feel and for her to say "Okay, we need to change our rules" then that says that she loves you and is wanting to make sure that you both do not overstep any boundaries in the future. It sounds like you both have the situation under control and as long as you keep that communication open to each other, things will be just fine. But I wouldn't put up that wall just yet.

MrsVan

[Jester]

Originally Posted by larryt9

I guess I would of just liked to hear "We'll be more careful from now on because I don't want anything we do to ever cause you, or either of us, any hurt." I just wanted to hear some emotion from her, again, not for what she/we did, but only because I expressed to her that I hurt a little. Instead, it was just "OK, won't happen again". Larry

This is a part of learning how to communicate in a relationship. You know her better than we do, but maybe her words of OK it won't happen again is her way of saying the same thing you expected to hear. There are many ways to express the same thoughts, just each of us do it differently. You said a visit to the club after the discussion was a great time for all and everything stayed with the redefined boundaries.

So maybe for her the actions of not causing you anymore hurt are more important then just saying the words.... since it hasn't happened again. Just a thought.

[larryt9]

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses. Just FYI, Michelle is my girlfriend of over a year, not my wife, but we both consider ourselves to be in a totally committed relationship (we're not kids either - 41 and 39).

I've read and re-read everyone's responses, and they've really helped me alot. You've all convinced me not to "put up that wall". Even if she didn't 100% "get" the emotions I was trying to convey (which, objectively, is what I believe), I do know she loves me and does not want to do anything to hurt me or us. And I don't want to live my life with walls around my heart.

Thanks
Larry