Wife loves doing mfm, but is reluctant to talk about it

[Compersor]

Wow, my second problem in a week. As I said in my earlier post my wife and I have been mfm-ing for over a year. I mentioned the fact that she doesn’t care for the idea of my playing with another woman in her presence. What I didn’t mention – always hoping that one day it would get better – is the fact that it is very hard to involve her in any form of communication about the topic of threesomes. She seems to shun the subject. Also when we make love with each other, she doesn’t really like to talk about it, sort of shies away from it. That is a great shame, because talking about these things is a very important part of the communication process between spouses (or partners in general). It raises the level of intimacy (sexual and emotional) considerably. Let’s face it, it is a great aphrodisiac. And every time I try to broach the subject with her –whether during lovemaking or at other times – she will show reluctance to discuss it in any depth. This unfortunately for me is a turn-off. I just don’t feel the same level of arousal as I otherwise would. And that, in turn, has a negative knock-on effect on the frequency and intensity of our lovemaking. I have discussed this problem with her many times. But to no avail. It must be a cultural thing. My wife – who is from the Philippines – was brought up very conservatively. Let me tell you one thing though: once we do get into the sack with one of our gentleman friends, there is no holding her back. She loses all her inhibitions. When she does a guy, she is awesome, sparks fly. In other words, she really enjoys the threesome experience, once it gets underway. So why is she so reticent to talk about it? Any views on this? By the way I tell my wife very frequently how much I love and respect her, which I do.

[dave110256]

Maybe she doesn't talk about it because she is afraid of hurting your feelings by saying how much she enjoys it. I might be way off base on this but I think my wife does the same thing. She is always reassuring me that I'm the best and only man she needs, I, too would love for her to talk about her fantasies or experiences, especially in the heat of the moment.

[Compersor]

Originally Posted by dave110256

Maybe she doesn't talk about it because she is afraid of hurting your feelings by saying how much she enjoys i.

Thanks for your take, Dave. But I don't believe that is the case. I keep telling her (ad nauseam?) that she never need have any fears on that score. And, indeed, when push comes to shove she doesn't hold back in any way. She devotes herself completely to our guest, as I tell her to do. No feelings of guilt there!

[NakedInSeattle]

You may have answered your own question without knowing....."..as I told her to do."

She may be doing it only to please you. Also,we have a cultural thing going on here. Her culture tells her to not talk about these things and just you telling her it is alright doesn't make a hill of beans.

My wife and I talking about our experiences (Who did what, when and how did it feel?) is the most enjoyable part about our swinging. We keep the sexual high going for days and days after.

Hope things improve, Comp.

[SexhoundDog]

Compersor,
Naked in Seattle has perhaps a very interesting take on this, as it does seem unusual to me also that she won't talk about it. However, if you throw in that she's from an Asian culture with old style ways of pleasing your man no matter what, maybe that helps her go wild when she's partaking.

But if you don't think that's the case and want to open dialogue, maybe a touch of reverse psychology might work, and hopefully the pros on the board will also respond. Perhaps if you brought it up that you didn't want to do MFM's any more because you thought it made her feel so uncomfortable and you'd never want to do anything that made the love of your life feel that way, you'd get to the root of it. Make the statement and ask her if that's what she wants. If she says yes, I guess she's been doing it to please you. If she says no, then I can't imagine a better followup than "Well, then why don't you want to talk about it?"

It could be a cultural thing where she knows MFM isn't the "norm", so maybe even if she likes it, she feels she shouldn't talk about it, I don't know. Good luck in your quest to get her to open up in discussions!

[Miss_Piggy]

I don't know if this applies at all, but I can understand feeling shy about talking about certain things. I have been guilty of the same thing myself. Kermit and I both play separately, as well as together, and I have found it difficult at times to relay all the details of an encounter. It's not because I am ashamed, or that I'm worried that he will get angry, or anything like that. In my head I have no problem thinking the whole thing through - but - I find that when it comes to telling the story out loud, I'm just not a very good story teller. I feel awkward using certain descriptive terms and find myself saying things like "um.." and, "well, you know..."

One way that I can get around this is to write out the story. I have no problem spelling things out on paper.

[Compersor]

NakedInSeattle,
I think you misunderstand what I meant by ...what I tell her to do". I simply assure her that she doesn't have to try and divide her attention between me and the other guy, because I don't have any exaggerated feelings of jealousy. None actually.
I don't tell (order) my wife to do anything. I introduced her to swinging, after discovering it myself, just over two years ago, because I thought it would enrich our (already excellent) marriage. It took a while to convince her to try it, but when she did, she took to it like a fish to water. That is apart from the communication problem I have mentioned in this thread. I have many times asked her whether she is sure she wishes to continue and she is invariably very positive about that. She definitely doesn't want to stop. I always assure her that I would not, in any way, take it out on her or show resentment if she wanted to end our involvement with the Swing Lifestyle. At the end of the day her enjoyment counts for everything. I would not enjoy it in the slightest if I knew she was doing it just to please me, and she knows that.

[SexhoundDog]

Then I guess you've got no other choice but to come right out and ask her why she doesn't want to talk about it even tho she likes doing it. Or if you don't want to do that, try the idea I mentioned earlier. She may not say anything right away, but if she wants another MFM, she will when the time comes. Just depends on how bad you've got the need to talk about it, but I think I'd try it someplace else other than the bedroom while in the act.

[Denver2some]

Like Miss Piggy, I am not a good "storyteller." I have fantasies, but it's hard for me to talk about them in the vivid detail my hubby would prefer. The same is true when he asks me to tell him what I liked during our last swing session. I may have loved it, but I'm shy about going into the specific details of why. (And I'm not worried about hubby's ego ... he knows he's the best!)

So what I'm saying is this: it's not limited to your wife's culture. Often women in the US also have problems talking about sex, due to how we are raised. A girl is told millions of times in her life "be a good girl." And many of us are also told that sex is a naughty thing that should never be discussed. This is a very difficult hurdle to overcome.

Lastly, not every person likes having talk of swinging brought up during one-on-one lovemaking. It's possible, if you are bringing the topic up a lot that way, she feels the "swinging talk" is intruding upon the sanctity of your lovemaking as a couple.

I think SexHoundDog's advice has merit:

Originally Posted by SexhoundDog

Perhaps if you brought it up that you didn't want to do MFM's any more because you thought it made her feel so uncomfortable and you'd never want to do anything that made the love of your life feel that way, you'd get to the root of it. Make the statement and ask her if that's what she wants. If she says yes, I guess she's been doing it to please you. If she says no, then I can't imagine a better followup than "Well, then why don't you want to talk about it?"

That seems a very good way to reintroduce the topic. Most importantly, it reinforces that she is #1 and swinging is #2. Women who are confident their spouse support their "Bad Girl" side often feel more free to be wild! (And revel in it facelick ) It may just take some time before it truly sinks in that her husband really loves his "Bad Girl" as much as he does his "Good Girl."

[Compersor]

Originally Posted by Denver2some

... he knows he's the best!)

I don't even mind if the other guy is more handsome, better built, better in bed, better hung, or whatever. On the contrary, I love it when my wife can enjoy some things that I can't offer her. So I don't have to be the best in every respect. And I'd actually love it if she were to tell me these things.
I totally agree with your "good girl"/"bad girl" approach. I actually do that all the time. I keep telling how much I appreciate her as she is. How beautiful and sexy she is and how much I respect her, coz she did have some worries in that department initially. Thanks for your nice post.

[CB_n_Red]

Originally Posted by Compersor

I don't even mind if the other guy is more handsome, better built, better in bed, better hung, or whatever. On the contrary, I love it when my wife can enjoy some things that I can't offer her. So I don't have to be the best in every respect. And I'd actually love it if she were to tell me these things.

That certainly echoes my feelings.

I guess I'm lucky in that Red is happy to talk about it after the event, and so am I with her. We both find it a turn on. It doesn't mean that either of us is about to pack our bags and leave - quite the contrary, but I suspect that some will be reluctant to talk about these things due to a perception that the partner may have issues with it. As such this suggests that it may be back to the old communication thing.

Keep on talking and good luck!

CB

[leftcoastcouple]

Originally Posted by Denver2some

Like Miss Piggy, I am not a good "storyteller." I have fantasies, but it's hard for me to talk about them in the vivid detail my hubby would prefer. The same is true when he asks me to tell him what I liked during our last swing session. I may have loved it, but I'm shy about going into the specific details of why. (And I'm not worried about hubby's ego ... he knows he's the best!)

So I'm not the only one? Mrs. Leftcoast has reacted the same way when we've played in the past. Particularly when we played alone, I'd get all worked up waiting for her to get home so I could hear all the juicy details. Yet, typically I'd get something like "It was fun." I'd ask, "What did you do?" "We had sex," she'd respond. :rollseyes

If I pressed for details, she'd act uncomfortable and tell me she didn't know what more to say. This drove me nuts on two levels--1) Wanting to know more to satisfy my voyeuristic needs, and 2) Not understanding, period. I mean, how hard is it to describe what you did, I'd be left wondering. And this wasn't a case of her "doing it for me," as a couple of times she met up with the guy with whom she played without telling me beforehand and told me about it later, as we'd agreed.

So what I'm saying is this: it's not limited to your wife's culture. Often women in the US also have problems talking about sex, due to how we are raised. A girl is told millions of times in her life "be a good girl." And many of us are also told that sex is a naughty thing that should never be discussed. This is a very difficult hurdle to overcome.

This may well be the answer. Mrs. Leftcoast was a virgin when I met her, and she held out on me for a looooong time. If you'd told me then that she'd end up swinging, I'd have certified you as nuts right there on the spot. The fact that she has reached that point, but still can't completely leave the "good girl" who doesn't discuss sex (a common problem with expressing her wants/needs, too), isn't that surprising, I suppose. But it had never dawned on me--duh--until I read your post, Denver2some.

Lastly, not every person likes having talk of swinging brought up during one-on-one lovemaking. It's possible, if you are bringing the topic up a lot that way, she feels the "swinging talk" is intruding upon the sanctity of your lovemaking as a couple.

I plead guilty of bringing it up too much, although--thick-headed male that I am--I can't understand how it could not be an exciting topic for anyone, if brought up with discretion. Because one thing's for sure: It's a definite way to get me going, and she knows that!

[Denver2some]

Originally Posted by leftcoastcouple

The fact that she has reached that point, but still can't completely leave the "good girl" who doesn't discuss sex (a common problem with expressing her wants/needs, too), isn't that surprising, I suppose. But it had never dawned on me--duh--until I read your post, Denver2some. !

Cool, Mr. LCC, glad I could be helpful. Here is another thought I had, after reading the above. As I think you're pointing out above, expressing wants/needs in general (not just sexual ones) can be very difficult for some women. Part of the "good girl" doctrine at its most severe is to always think (and try to fulfill) of others' wants/needs and not your own. You are told if you dare express your own, you're being "selfish." This has bred generations of ladies who even when asked outright about their desires, are just plain speechless. This can be awfully tough for their husbands, who are left trying to play the mindreader! Surrender

Originally Posted by leftcoastcouple

I plead guilty of bringing it up too much, although--thick-headed male that I am--I can't understand how it could not be an exciting topic for anyone, if brought up with discretion. Because one thing's for sure: It's a definite way to get me going, and she knows that!

I know what you mean. Mentioning the topic in the midst of foreplay can really get Mr. D2S going too. However, and this could just be me personally (but I don't think so) ... if he brought it up almost every time we were intimate, I'd eventually start to wonder if little ole me weren't enough anymore. And if I started to think that ... just the brief mention of it during sex would be an immediate turn off.

[JustAskJulie]

My thoughts are along the same lines as Naked In Seattle's, that she is only doing this to please you. Just from reading your posts I can't help but wonder that and wonder if you aren't pushing her to do this.

You say that you aren't as turned on sexually if she won't talk about the group sex with you... that to me sounds like a HUGE RED FLAG. If you can't get turned on without thinking about it then something isn't right. My thought is that maybe YOU need to step back and re-examine what is going on and YOUR own reasons for wanting this. That's got to hurt her to think that you don't get turned on enough by her alone and that the only way you can really enjoy sex with her is if she's talking with you about including other people, don't ya think? Maybe she doesn't want to talk about it because she doesn't want to start a fight with you by telling you that she doesn't really want to do it, or that she is upset to think that she isn't enough for you?

[Compersor]

I would like to thank you guys for your high quality posts. It is very encouraging and enlightening to read other knowledgeable people's views. The ‘reverse psychology” idea is excellent, and yes I had already tried it. It works indeed. After a while she will bring up the subject, because she wants it herself. Just like leftcoastcouple I tend to bring up the subject too much, I guess. And definitely the ‘good girl/bad girl’ thing is a huge factor. We cannot shake off our cultural conditioning a hundred percent.

For the benefit of Julie I would like to say that if one is turned on more by a certain event (in this case talking about swinging), then, being turned on less by the non-event (in this case NOT talking about swinging) is a simple and direct consequence of the fact that the event is the opposite of the non-event. Hence, the opposite effect can logically be expected. I showed your post to my wife, who expressed her surprise about it. Julie, read again my reply to NakedInSeattle:

Originally Posted by Compersor

NakedInSeattle,
I think you misunderstand what I meant by ...what I tell her to do". I simply assure her that she doesn't have to try and divide her attention between me and the other guy, because I don't have any exaggerated feelings of jealousy. None actually.
I don't tell (order) my wife to do anything. I introduced her to swinging, after discovering it myself, just over two years ago, because I thought it would enrich our (already excellent) marriage. It took a while to convince her to try it, but when she did, she took to it like a fish to water. That is apart from the communication problem I have mentioned in this thread. I have many times asked her whether she is sure she wishes to continue and she is invariably very positive about that. She definitely doesn't want to stop. I always assure her that I would not, in any way, take it out on her or show resentment if she wanted to end our involvement with the Swing Lifestyle. At the end of the day her enjoyment counts for everything. I would not enjoy it in the slightest if I knew she was doing it just to please me, and she knows that.