How blunt is enough blunt?

[sereneiders]

I was blunt with my post in this thread. I know, I meant to be blunt by using words like "rape", and I know I was this blunt before.

The OP was just denying eveirthing not fitting his fantasy and plans, which, btw, it's an attitude we've seen before in this board: people wanting us to reasure them they're right, and attempting to convince us we're wrong when we don't do that.

Giving the scenario derived from the OP words about her wife, I cannot tell beforehand she'd feel raped, but it's very likely that watever she feels would be closest to a rape than the happy outcome this guy pursues. And someone had to cut thorugh the BS, knock on his head, and (hopefully) make him pay attention. Either this or keep being nice and allow him to find arguments to justify all of the nonsense.

I know, I have no patience with people playing the Puppet Master, and less when they attempt to use this board as the stage were we'd be the rest of the puppets he needs in order to mount the play.

However, from some of the posts following mine, it seems to me my bluntness wasn't so aproved, so to speack.

So, my question is... how blunt is enough blunt? Should you're forced to witness a guy with such a brutal approach to get what he wants from his wife, risking to damage her, his marriage, and himself, who doesn't (wants to) aknowledge the advice provided... What would you do?

I know, there's an easy way out, a politically right one: to shut up and move on to the next thread... but even if by doing so you'd be aproving the madness by omition?

I don't know. I don't regret about my post, it was blunt but consecuent with my conscience, and I felt I had reasons to be blunt. However, I'd like to hear other member's oppinions, as well as alternative (and more polite) approaches to knock on someone's head (if there exist a polite way to knock on someone's head).

[spectraschain]

Trolls like this guy need it as blunt as can be....

Long before your post came about, I was thinking that the whole scenario sounded like date rape...

[MoonLightKiss]

I do believe trolls like him (and I hope to hell it was a troll and not a real person really considering what he wanted) need a good BOP on the head to make em realize what they are actually considering. As far as your use of the word "rape"...it probably wouldn't have been the word I chose, but I don't see where you should have to worry about the fact that you used it. I would hope this guy would not pick out a man, tell his wife to screw him, and then if she said no make her do it anyway by physically forcing her. Which could have been how it was taken by the OP in the other thread. So I suppose my answer is, I don't think you were wrong to use it, but I can see the other side of the coin.

[JustAskJulie]

I think you were as blunt as needed to be in this case. There were still unanswered questions when the OP went away which I wish had been asked earlier and really wish had been answered. But what you posted was probably what was going through everyone's head.

[curiousagain]

I'm thinking in a scenario like that if she went along with her husband and had sex with a stranger just because she feared losing her husband or upsetting him, rape wouldn't be too strong a term. There are different types and methods of rape and using threats, implied or otherwise to obtain sex is a form of rape. Which reminds me, I need to file my taxes.

[Cpl2share]

Did I hear "Politically Correct" in there somewhere?
Maybe if everyone called things as they are our world would be a better place.
To paraphrase Shakespear:
A rose by any other name smells the same, and a shit pile by any other name does too.
Call it like it is and people will be forwarned.

[lovinher]

I tend to be blunt and to the point in everyday life. Some people appreciate it, others don't. I think most people do when they want an honest answer. I personally appreciate straight shooters over those who say what they think people want to hear. The thing is in print things are harder to convey and get the message across without offending somebody. Without facial expressions, tone of voice and all those little things that help get a point across can make being blunt go a different path in the eyes of the person looking for advice.
The poster you are referring to needed a blunt response. There was no other way to do it and give an honest answer.

[arioch]

If you see bullshit and don't call it out you'd be a hypocrite, no? You did the right thing.

[LOL_OMG]

I thought your bluntness was appropriate. At least it should have given him something to think about.

Mrs

[LOL_OMG]

In perspective, it was much more better than my bluntness was about to be.

Mr.

[cubnamy1995]

I'm a big fan of being blunt. Not for the sake of causing pain, but Amy and I both want to be clear with people, and sometimes, you just can't sugar-coat things. I loved your post. Call 'em as you see 'em. We are all on here to share our opinions, and if someone is stupid enough to seek approval for his evil master plan from a group devoted to openness, respect, and complete love for one's SO, then the a$$hol# had it coming.

I greatly appreciated your post. Good job.

[Bedmates]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I think you were as blunt as needed to be in this case. There were still unanswered questions when the OP went away which I wish had been asked earlier and really wish had been answered. But what you posted was probably what was going through everyone's head.

This is part of the point I was trying to make - that by being blunt and driving him away, we have many unanswered questions. Everybody here with experience was probably thinking the same thing, but what was the best way to present it? With kindness or wrapped around a baseball bat?

Moonlightkiss summed it up well. That storyline was pure fantasy, but he needed to realize that just because he's carved that out as his life dream, his poor wife hasn't been developing that scenario with him - and when she hears it she's going to be shocked, then hurt. First he needs to find out where she is (talk) then continue talking or drop the whole idea based on her response. Moonlightkiss, my read is that this person was NOT a troll and that he had actually worked and planned this all out. I strongly believe that he was (or still is) planning to introduce his wife to a fellow that he's selected and that she's going to be expected to perform for his pleasure. Add alcohol and this whole thing could get ugly fast.

He needed to be stopped, but he needed to understand why so he could stop himself. The whole plan for July had to be tossed as it was pure insanity, but he's not going to do that because he got scolded on a web site by people he has no rapport with.

curiousagain expressed my fear - that she'd feel trapped and that she'd have to let someone have her against her will just to keep her husband/marriage. That's flat out wrong, and my heart goes out to her if he continues with that plan.

Since sereneiders invited me and asked for input, here it is: treat every encounter as it's the first. Your post here starts with "we've seen this before" and it may have influenced your reaction. Then the supprt comes with "trolls like this..." and it starts to sound like this fellow is going to get it for all the trolls that haven't been straightened out before. And THAT is what starts to read ugly and too blunt. Treat every individual as an individual. You wouldn't treat a beautiful woman you just met like trash because the last one that looked like her did you wrong, would you?

I'm not saying anybody did anything wrong. Everybody is fully entitled to their opinion and I truly like hearing all the different perspectives. I try to keep my nose out of everybody's business and I certainly don't mean to be posting advice. But that particular thread concerned me - no, that's not strong enough. It scared me - and I just had to jump in.

The only peace I have is what he said to me. I don't share PM's, but since he's gone I will in this case. He thanked me and said he was leaving. He told me that he'd take my advice and talk to his wife this (past) weekend. So, I think we can safely assume that she's not going to get raped in July, but there could be another divorce on the blotter in NY soon!

Jim

[DBL D]

Well, Sereneiders,...since you asked. Nicely, even...

You were not too blunt. You were letting him know what he needs to know. You were, if only by the barest of margins, actually asking him to join in a dialogue. He chose not to, like a lot of folks do. He's now got his head back in the sand looking for another way.

It is scary to know that there are schemers like this out there.

Male D

[sereneiders]

Bedmates,

I'd like to point out that indeed I said we've seen this before, however, I never supposed, nor claimed, the guy was a troll. I give for granted all his words were true, even if because he was believing it.

The guy started the thread claiming "I've read just about every post on here pertaining to first time encounters". This is hard to believe due to the huge amount of threads about this subject. Even more, every thread where a similar scenario was presented (and there are A LOT of these), we adviced against his aproach and any simlar one. Should he really took the time to read, he would already know our answer.

There are several ways to measure respect for people.

In most forums people wouldn't even dare to answer a question should they know or suppose it was already answered, on the grounds that you'd be being lazy to invest your time making your own research, while asking the rest of the members to invest theirs to overcome your lazyness, which is ill seen as something disrespectfull. This guy not only didn't took the time to read, but claimed he did to ask one of the most typical questions curious hubands does: "how to make my wife get into this?", to the point (as I said in the post) that we played a bet game on guessing when the next guy would come to the board asking the same question, being this sort of question the only one leading us to play this game.

I could just ignore him, or just tell him "look, let's start over, you really didn't read the board, do what you claimed you did, waste your time instead of ours, then come back here, be serious, and ask a NEW question". That would be REALLY blunt. And pointless. The fact is, I am convinced he read a couple of posts, selectivelly, just paying attention to the hints he was asking for insthead to the advices, the guy (as most of us today) doesn't have an indea of how huge the amount of experience already gathered in this forum is, and he honestly tought "he read it all". Anyway, I took the time to provide him an extensive answer, trying to cover every angle, and besides the bluntness of my words, this alone is a very respectfull attitude from my part.

Because of this, I didn't tought the guy would run away, but that he would be shocked and upset, but aware of the extent of our disagreenment as to keep discussing the whole subject... as already happened many other times when someone was blunt with a poster. His attitude surprised me, and the surprise lead me to ask myself how (in)effective I was by being blunt.

The fact is, given the level of denyal he has shown in his subsequent posts, I doubt we would be ever able to make him change his mind. He was determinated and, IMO, he was looking for our aproval. However, the forum purpose isn't just to answer questions to the original poster of a thread, but to many other guys following him wanting to answer the same question. I was also concerned about those guys, because if we keep discussing with him, we start convalidating his arguments as valid ones from where to discuss, as if they where well grounded.

In any case, I don't regret my oppinion about this guy plans, nor my bluntness. And I am pretty confident in my ability to look in between the lines for second meanings (which could lead to another discussion beyond the scope of this thread). If I were able to know of a more effective way than my current bluntness to make my point, I'd be taking it, just I don't know it, and I wonder if someone have a better idea.

Netiher giving me thumbs ups or thumbs down about my bluntness helps me answer my question.

For example: I strongly believe that in the poster proposed scenario, the subjective way his wife could perceive his acts could be so damaging, that the only comparison with a similar level of psychological damage that I may think of would be a rape. The word "rape" is too bold, and I know it doesn't correlate with this guy's intentions, however, saying things like "a huge damage" wouldn't provide an "objective measure" of "how much damage would be a huge damage" as to transmit the level of risk I am perceiving.

So, how would you make a point about the level of damages you're meaning to express without making such a gross analogy? This is the sort of answers I am looking for here.

[MoonLightKiss]

It seemed, and I could have misunderstood the guys posts, that he wanted a step by step recipe on how to get his wife into bed with another man and himself by saying "few are the complete directive a newbie needs to instill confidence to take that next step" and "Would some creative husband that has been in a similar situation share some advice with me on how to make this happen?" Half the fun of swinging is the journey and the self discovery of making that journey. But he didn't want to hear that.

He was told, by many of the posters here that there is no step by step way to ensure "victory", and that he needed to talk to his wife. Meanwhile he is "claiming" to have read all the posts here concerning that topic, AND he even tried to dictate how we were supposed to respond by saying "I don't need a lecture on the protocols of swinging." Apparantly he did, because when he was told these things like respect your wife, talk to her, open a dialogue, if you cannot discuss it at your table over coffee don't even attempt to do it. He actually got defensive about it. In fact, if he had read all those posts he claimed to have read, he should have known "talk to your wife first" would have been the first things out of peoples keyboards.

The bottom line is, he asked a question, and when he didn't get
Step 1. Make sure she is good and plowed by pouring liqour down her throat with a funnel, and don't forget to mix in those recreational drugs.
Step 2. Bring the guy in. Make sure he is naked and well hung as to entice your now inebriated wife.
Step 3. Tell her you love her and this is her surprise.
Step 4. Pass out condoms if you like and both of you do whatever you like to her, because she is about passed out.
Step5. When she wakes up the next day and hates you, act innocent, try to blame her, and pray she doesn't feel raped.

He got defensive when that isn't what he was told. He got mad because we were not applauding his version of deception. Frankly upon rereading the posts, I feel he got what he needed which was a big BOP upside the head.