What Defines Cheating?

[yawanna]

Frankly, when someone says they share EVERYTHING with their spouse, I have difficulty with that concept.

It's true for us EBF In the end, we only have each other. And as I've told my husband, I'd suck the cheesies out of his teeth

All together now............... EEEEEWWW!~!!!

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by yawanna
Everyone makes their own choices for their own reasons, and I don't believe I am one to condemn or condone...it's not my life. As a topic tho, yes.... I have an opinion.

And surely YOU don't think that I would think that YOU wouldn't have an opinion....

Ok...yeah, yeah, yeah...so swinging couples might be more open with each other than non-swingers. Got it. Now if you can, put yourself in the place of a non-swinging couple. Insecure wife. Throws a fit if her husband even looks at Playboy. Or as Vegas Lee said, I believe, a wife that thought making eye contact with the waitress was flirting. In other words, they don't have that open and talk it out relationship we hear so much about on this board. She lives in a bubble and wants him to live there with her. He's on a message board. He has fantasies, he enjoys some discussion of sex and sexuality. Katy bar the door if she found out!

Do we fault him for coming here, reading, participating, wondering, understanding, questioning? Or should he live in the bubble with her?

- EBF

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Buck
OK. I am one of those persons who participates on this board without my spouse's knowledge. I came across the board by accident and found it to be interesting.

Buck, I chose this portion of your posting to respond to as it really hits home in several aspects.

Long about...I'd say six or seven years ago, I happened to walk in on Mr. O while he was on a Swingers Ad site, looking at pictures and such. My first impression was, "What the hell are you doing?". I'll admit, I was miffed. I felt betrayed, like he was looking for something that I couldn't give him...etc. Now mind you we had been doing pillow talk for some time which always made for mind exploding sex, however, I was flat out stunned. Our relationship was less than five years old at that point and this put our household in turmoil. Yes, we had discussed this in the bedroom while making love, yet we had never actually discussed making a fantasy come true. End result of my having discovered this, he abandoned looking at any other sites that were swinging related. Over time as we grew to know each other better and the same fantasies still existed in the bedroom, I began a search on my own as I now felt comfortable enough in our realtionship and knew that whatever we did would not take away from who we were as a couple. It was then that I 'secretly' started a search on my own, to learn more about swinging, just in case I might ever consider turning a fantasy into a reality. Through trial and error (mostly trials) I happened upon this board and through the discussions, my questions were answered openly and honestly by many members, some of who are still regular posters today. Their sharing of thoughts and experiences allowed me to figure out if we were cut out for this lifestyle. Imagine Mr. O's surprise when I showed him this board and told him that we needed to place an ad.

Did I cheat by gathering information on how best to learn more about something I was interested in, regardless of where my opinion lay in the end? I think not. Should we have had better communication with each other when looking for info or for viewing specific sites? Yes. Our mis-communication turned into a positive as we learned by those mistakes and while we don't seek to tell each other exactly 'who, what, when, where, or how', unless it is imperative to us both at the moment, we have given ourselves the freedom to explore anything and everything that is of interest to us.

So in order not to bore ya'll further... No, Buck. I do not see you as a cheater. I see you as a person gathering information and while you may or may not live vicariously through this board, it is quite obvious that you are doing nothing more than Mr. O was when I happened upon him visiting swinger sites.

To answer the original question of what 'cheating' means...

I can only answer for myself, but it would be anything that has not been touched upon in our personal lives and is driven by emotional attachment. Be it another person, a 900 number or playing around in a chat room. (This applies to vehicles the same as it does for sex. )

[yawanna]

He's on a message board. He has fantasies, he enjoys some discussion of sex and sexuality.

I wouldn't have those discussions with him..it would feel like I was participating in his cheating. That's just how it feels to me and when it feels wrong I don't do it. Usually. Okay many times. Okay as often as I can.

In this scenario tho...I won't engage married men who are on here and their wives don't know or who have said no to swinging, I won't talk 'sex' with them.

I keep it on the board and respond to general questions about the topic, that which they can render a better understanding to talk about this with their SO later on they hope.

Clarify... I wouldn't share the down and dirty details of what happens amongst swingers sexually.

[Elusive BiFem]

Sorry...I should have better clarified the talking about sex and sexuality thing. I didn't mean "talking sex" and I wouldn't do that with anyone - married, single...not my style. I meant talking sex and sexuality as we discuss issues here on the board. My mistake. - EBF

[De and Ci]

Originally posted by Buck
I also have not tried to "pick up" anyone on this board or anything like that, but I have developed a dialogue with a person or two which have been very helpful and cordial. It's sort of like confiding in a good friend. Is that cheating?

YES, You are cheating, You Scum! How Could you! Get off this Board!! You filthy 2-timer!

Just kidding! All this talk makes for interesting conversation. But really, If someone walked into your office crying "he/she cheated on me" What would come to mind?

[Alura]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
I think I'll just move to Tulsa. I need to be around some of this sage wisdom.
- EBF

Ah, you're just saying that because you've heard our city has been chosen to be the site of the world's tallest free-standing bronze statue named "The American."

Thanks, EBF.

Alura

[SluttyWife]

Anything physical, emotional or sexual done without your partner's knowledge and WHOLE HEARTED consent.



Our definition anyway.

;-*

[hmr]

Originally posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty
Since no two couples dynamics are the same everyone has different ideas on what constitutes cheating. If you go outside the boundaries set in your paticular relationship then you are a cheater.

a couple's bottom line on acceptable behaviour and activities for each other and their relationship as a whole regarding sex or the potential thereof.

EBF I tend to agree with you personally, on many points. But, they can only be as they would relate to my relationship with my spouse. As the two statements above point out, everyone must consider their own relationship. Who are we to judge others not knowing their circumstances?

Personally, I see no more harm in veiwing a web site of this nature, than veiwing a Penthouse or other type magazine. This is just me, because I know and trust my spouse completely. We share pertinent information with each other daily. I say pertinent, meaning if we feel it affects our relationship, or that it is something the other needs(will need) to know. This is a decision that we have to make concerning each other. Pertinent information includes anything from kid problems to who we talked to on the IM, and finances...etc. Nothing is ever held back, so there are never any surprises.

If anyone is veiwing this site without their partner's knowlege, and it is not leading to extramarital affairs, but giving them support and knowledge to take to their partner I see no harm what so ever in it. Many people discuss the possibility of swinging, but don't go any further because one or the other is timid or shy.

Sometimes it takes the other partner to take the first step!
Taking the first step is sometimes a frightening thing to do. They want to proceed slowly, as to not scare their spouse. They also want to gather as much information as possible before broaching the subject again. Gain some insight as to what they are talking about, before they bring their partner onto the site. At least I would hope that is their ultimate goal. Share the knowledge, then the dream!

mrs hmr

[Elusive BiFem]

I really do appreciate your comments, hmr, along with many others (and a special thank-you to yawanna!). As I mentioned earlier, this topic is interesting to me since I've never had the opportunity to develop the types of relationships many of you have and as a result, in some respects, I have no real concept of the issues of trust and cheating in a strong relationship. It's much like having kids...I have lots of "book-learning" about kids, growth and development...but no practical experience. It's easy for me to say "if my kid did that I'd wollop the stew out of him!" but really...would I? As hard as I try, my two little 4-legged babies don't quite fit the roles of real kids. And as hard as I try, I can't really understand what cheating and the avoidance of same might mean to people in a strong relationship.

I do tend to believe that it would be very difficult for me to share "everything" with a partner just due to my personal nature. There is a part of me that I keep very private and therefore, I assume that others do as well. Another thing...I believe it involves the dynamics between the two people in the relationship. I was involved with someone for a long period of time that simply did not understand the need to share certain types of information and was critical of me at times (in that humorous but sarcastic way some have - know what I mean?), saying that I shared too much. He was the sort that really wasn't interested in hearing much of anything. But I ended that relationship. Why? I didn't feel like he was cheating, physically/sexually, but I did understand that my perceived lack of communication caused me to lack trust in him and our relationship. So maybe that is the key to what I'm asking...for me there was a sense of cheating on an "emotional" level.

So! hmr...you said...

EBF I tend to agree with you personally, on many points. But, they can only be as they would relate to my relationship with my spouse. As the two statements above point out, everyone must consider their own relationship. Who are we to judge others not knowing their circumstances?

And that seems to be it in a nutshell. Every relationship is different and cheating is defined differently by all in the context of their current relationship. Now I'm beginning to see why so many psychologists have studied this. Lots and lots of areas to discuss.

- EBF

[C&D]

Originally posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty
If you know what you are doing is not cool with your partner and you do it anyway,without them knowing, it is cheating.

To nail down a set of black and white rules on what is cheating and what isnt is nearly impossible.

Since no two couples dynamics are the same everyone has different ideas on what constitutes cheating. If you go outside the boundaries set in your paticular relationship then you are a cheater.

Just my thoughts.

BTW,

The word "YOU" is not directed towards anyone in this thread. Just using it as a generic term.

Yup...agreed. As long as C and I stay within the set bounderies then everything is fine.

I have no problem with her going out and sleeping with another man as long as she tells me about it. That's not cheating to me.

Now she doesn't feel as comfortable as I do. If I were to sleep with another woman that I had met whether I told C or not it would be considered cheating on her.

So I believe cheating to be different for each individual or couple. We have a friend who's husband is addicted to porn. I'm talkin' internet, phone, movies...the whole nine yards. To her, he's cheating on her because he's not including her in their sex life. And I'm almost inclined to agree with her.


D

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by C&D

So I believe cheating to be different for each individual or couple. We have a friend who's husband is addicted to porn. I'm talkin' internet, phone, movies...the whole nine yards. To her, he's cheating on her because he's not including her in their sex life. And I'm almost inclined to agree with her.

D

And I agree with you...it is different for all the couples and individuals. And like you...I think I'd be inclinded to feel that there was an element of cheating in the fellow with the porn addiction. I wonder how she handles that?

- EBF

[C&D]

C here of C&D, the sad thing is that "she" doesn't handle it well at all, it has been a struggle their entire relationship. The problem that she has with it is that he doesn't include her, and she is willing. She had some sexy pictures made (nothing nude) for him one year for their anniversary and he was totally pissed at her and didn't speak to her for days because of it. But it is o.k. for him to break them (financially) making phone calls and ordering pornos on pay-per-view or on internet chat rooms. I guess he expects his wife not to be that way.

[Elusive BiFem]

You know, C&D, this almost makes me think of that thing...what is it called? The "Madonna Complex?" I think that's what I'm thinking. I don't know...some might call it a form of abuse, but really, because you see it as an addiction, I'd be more inclined to think of it as some type of illness. I wonder if they have ever sought counseling for this?

- EBF

[C&D]

She has sought counseling, but he "doesn't have a problem". His words not hers......If it isn't one thing it is another, he has an addictive personality. Before the porn it was pot, or alcohol. The sad thing is she is a very patient person and has been putting up with this for at least 15 years! One day she will finally make the move and see that she needs and wants more than what she is getting, and deserves it and he will be left thinking about what he lost.