Cheaters network??? - Page 2

Elusive BiFem · 10-01-2003, 03:39 PM

How do you tell them? By using words.

Ahhh...really...that is a frequent question. The answer is really simple - communication. Now getting there is the difficult part. Somehow...someway...people that are in open and honest and committed relationships can eventually get around to talking about their fantasies. I'm not suggesting that you just suddenly come out of the blue with, "Hey, honey...I'd love to watch you have sex with another man!" Might sorta put one's life in a little danger.

But most of us have fantasies and as we begin to know and trust other people (spouses in this case) we can begin to share more of ourselves. And as we share, we judge the reaction...the other shares a little, and eventually, the conversations can wind up there. The key element is trust and safety in the person you are sharing with. Make sense? - EBF

Contact1 · 10-01-2003, 03:46 PM

Yeah it does. I just feel bad for those who are involved in relationships with peoplthat are totally closed off you know?

Bible thumper types. Cause then you are trapped in a relationship that will be unfulfilling and then you will become unhappy then resentful, then the cheating happens. Its a vicious cycle.

Almost makes me glad I'm single.

Elusive BiFem · 10-01-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Contact1
Yeah it does. I just feel bad for those who are involved in relationships with peoplthat are totally closed off you know?

Bible thumper types. Cause then you are trapped in a relationship that will be unfulfilling and then you will become unhappy then resentful, then the cheating happens. Its a vicious cycle.

Almost makes me glad I'm single.

Interesting, Contact1. You say you feel sorry for those involved in relationships with people that are totally closed off, but you need to ask yourself...why are they totally closed off? Maybe the rare person is the Bible thumper type, but I would venture that's rarely the case. And before I go further, what exactly is a Bible thumper, anyway? And that is a rhetorical question...no need to bother with an example as I can refute your definition (as can you mine) because it is just an OPINION.

Sometimes we are trapped in unfulfilling relationships because we choose to be there. Simple as that. We are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary for a fulfilling and rewarding relationship. The man that comes home every night and plops in front of the TV while the haggard wife/mother comes home to her SECOND job...maybe if he would get off the couch and help, she would not be so tired that she didn't have the energy to talk - much less have sex. Or the man that works 50-60 hours a week to support his family and his wife wants to bitch and moan when he wants to spend a Saturday afternoon playing golf. It happens on both sides.....and that is where the communications fail and the beginning of the unfulfilling relationships.

But you know what...regardless of the reasons...there are alternatives...counseling, making sacrifices, really listening to the other...and sometimes simply divorce. Cheating is deceit. Pure and simple. And there is no excuse for that in any relationship. Period.

I can become a vicious cycle, but it does not have to. Again, we CHOOSE to make it so. - EBF

Contact1 · 10-02-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Interesting, Contact1. You say you feel sorry for those involved in relationships with people that are totally closed off, but you need to ask yourself...why are they totally closed off? Maybe the rare person is the Bible thumper type, but I would venture that's rarely the case. And before I go further, what exactly is a Bible thumper, anyway? And that is a rhetorical question...no need to bother with an example as I can refute your definition (as can you mine) because it is just an OPINION.

Sometimes we are trapped in unfulfilling relationships because we choose to be there. Simple as that. We are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary for a fulfilling and rewarding relationship. The man that comes home every night and plops in front of the TV while the haggard wife/mother comes home to her SECOND job...maybe if he would get off the couch and help, she would not be so tired that she didn't have the energy to talk - much less have sex. Or the man that works 50-60 hours a week to support his family and his wife wants to bitch and moan when he wants to spend a Saturday afternoon playing golf. It happens on both sides.....and that is where the communications fail and the beginning of the unfulfilling relationships.

But you know what...regardless of the reasons...there are alternatives...counseling, making sacrifices, really listening to the other...and sometimes simply divorce. Cheating is deceit. Pure and simple. And there is no excuse for that in any relationship. Period.

I can become a vicious cycle, but it does not have to. Again, we CHOOSE to make it so. - EBF

Very true. There's no doubt that that Unhappines begins at somepoint generally before the seual problems begin.
I had a close friend who was havining Money problems and he and his wife argued quite a bit due to not handling the stress well. They had not made love in 4 years. It went on like that and in this particular instance she was unwilling to seek out help ie.marriage/relationship counceling. They wound up getting divorced.
Lots of things can cause that type of stress. There are millions of reasons but no excuses.

I suppose what I meant by Bible thumper,because I want to explain the phrase in my view, is some one whose entire view on life is dictated by the strict religious doctrine. In this context many of these types of people are very closed off to what many of us would consider mild sexual fantasy or desire.

I probably should mention another group of people who may have serious issues with sexuality either in the extreme or by being closed off to it, victims of sexual/psychological/emaational abuse.
But thats a hwole other issue.

***JustAskJulie*** · 10-04-2003, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Contact1
(taking bows) thank you, thank you very much.

Back on topic, lest I begin talking about myself.
Do you think there are actually married women on there looking for affairs? Would they not just be in places like this? Or maybe AFF.

Even some swing sites are crap.

I wouldn't consider AFF a swing site really, even tho there are ads there from people looking to swing.

There's a big difference between swinging and cheating, so hopefully those just looking to cheat WOULDN'T be here. And when they do show up they don't tend to stay long as it doesn't take them long to figure out that we don't exactly welcome them here.

Lorrie · 10-11-2003, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Ok..getting back on topic...I don't know for fact, but I would suspect there are married women out there looking for affairs. I don't recall the statistics, but I've read there is a huge % of married women having affairs...and really, the numbers did not differ that significantly from married men.

Now...why would you be interested? Are you trying to find a If you go back and read through the many posts, you will see that the idea of someone cheating is greatly frowned upon by most. (and yes, there are a few exceptions)

Of course married women cheat. I've read it's been common since women began working outside the homes became the norm.

In my opinion (and I want to stress that):

I think people are missing the point when being angry/judgmental at people who cheat. It's more of a huge misunderstanding. People weren't meant to be monagamous--physically, emotionally, mentally--puts way too much strain of responsibility on both people, plus it's not fair, etc.

People should be honest with their SO, but if people decide to cheat later in their marriage, plus if they have kids, it does make it a helluva lot harder to confess that this is what they want to do....He who has not done/is not doing wrong cast the first stone.

Elusive BiFem · 10-11-2003, 12:13 PM

I note that your comments are your opinon, Lorri, and they are respected as such. However, I have to respectfully disagree with you and offer up my opinions, too.

Women cheat too. Agreed.

Cheating as a "huge misunderstanding?" I think not. I can buy into the fact that we are not necessarily meant to be mongamous creatures, and particularly with increased lengths of lifespan, etc. But to say that that it puts too much strain on people is too far of a stretch for me to buy into. I think cheating is nothing more than instant gratification and a total lack of respect or consideration for the partner being cheated on.

Swinging is an entirely different story...it is something a couple chooses to do together. There is no deception, no secrecy. It is discussed and agreed to. Certainly, there are occasions when people are hurt as the result of swinging, but at least they go into it knowing there can be consequences.

The wife or husband...sitting at home...thinking their spouse is being honest and faithful? Nope. Cheating is lying. Pure and simple. And there is nothing pretty about lying in any relationship.

If one partner wants multiple partners and agreement and/or compromise cannot be reached to that end, the relationship should be ended. No one person has the right to inflict pain - emotional or physical - on another.

My opinions. - EBF

wrnakedru · 10-11-2003, 01:08 PM

We are all born as selfish creatures. Our concern as infants is for warmth as a combination of being held and being clothed. We demand nourishment. We need to be kept clean. And is spite of our efforts otherwise, sooner or later our bodies must rest. We may feel gratitude toward our caregivers because they provide our needs, but we do not have concern for their needs. Our only concern for others is that they be there to provide for us. We do not identify their care as love for us, nor do we identify our care for them in any other regard besides what they can do for us.

As we age and mature, consideration for others is forced upon us as a portion of our socialization. We may learn the concept of taking turns, for instance, but only because it is forced upon us. We therefore learn to mask our selfish motivations to become "acceptable". For many years, those whom we love are identified as such because of what they do for us.

As we blossom toward adulthood, we acquire a new standard for our choice of whom we love. We begin to choose based on how that person enables us to feel about ourselves. Note that this is still a selfishly motivated reason. But it is natural to value those who treat us well, and act as if we are something special. They enable us to feel that our selfish motivations are right on target - because we are worth it.

When you consider the concept, you realize that there really is no such thing as true altruism. We do the things we do because of how that enables us to feel about ourselves.

The common binding thread throughout our lives is that love is a decision that we make. We may sometimes feel helpless about it, but the truth is - we made a decision. We are all, therefore, where we choose to be. Those who would have us believe they exist in unhappy situations need to squarely face the fact that they, on a day to day basis, choose to be there. If and when they find it unhappy ENOUGH, they will choose not to be there. The standard for "enough" is individually sized.

Those who cheat on their marriage partners often can recite a litany of rationalization for the cheating. They have chosen the standard by which they can exist in their marriage. Note this is still a selfishly motivated choice, of course. The fact that their cheating may not adher to acceptable social standards is not a matter of concern or they would not do so. The "self" is supreme. Only those who have not grown as individuals very much since early childhood continue to blame external factors for their personal condition. Maturity brings acceptance of the consequences of choice.

Swingers have gone a step above and beyond - we have integrated our inborn selfish instincts and our relationship commitment so that dishonesty has no place in our moral fiber.

I myself choose to believe, then, that it is quite acceptable for us to feel a bit superior to the so-called moral majority. We have evolved to a higher plain.

jen · 10-11-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wrnakedru
The common binding thread throughout our lives is that love is a decision that we make. We may sometimes feel helpless about it, but the truth is - we made a decision. We are all, therefore, where we choose to be. Those who would have us believe they exist in unhappy situations need to squarely face the fact that they, on a day to day basis, choose to be there. If and when they find it unhappy ENOUGH, they will choose not to be there. The standard for "enough" is individually sized.

Wow, just wow

PlayCplCanada · 10-14-2003, 06:44 PM

Cheating Or Swinging ?
We know a couple where they met another couple with the expectation of a possible encounter in mind , the women did not hit it off but the man went ahead and got together behind his wife's back and had an affair with the woman of that said couple.
This happens all too often even in our lifestyle. Women and Men both cheat they are very selfish and only seem to think about themselves rather then their spouse. I would think that a lonely house wife who has minimal self esteem would want or lust an affair but would 'nt a job be safer ? Or a self help group? Most people who have affairs feel like crap afterwards. We do not condone cheating in swinging or cheating spouses in the lifestyle so I guess I am glad there is such sites for the likes of those types of people.

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10-11-2003, 01:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
wrnakedru Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,989 Location: Bliss Status: Female	Cheaters are basically selfish ... We are all born as selfish creatures. Our concern as infants is for warmth as a combination of being held and being clothed. We demand nourishment. We need to be kept clean. And is spite of our efforts otherwise, sooner or later our bodies must rest. We may feel gratitude toward our caregivers because they provide our needs, but we do not have concern for their needs. Our only concern for others is that they be there to provide for us. We do not identify their care as love for us, nor do we identify our care for them in any other regard besides what they can do for us. As we age and mature, consideration for others is forced upon us as a portion of our socialization. We may learn the concept of taking turns, for instance, but only because it is forced upon us. We therefore learn to mask our selfish motivations to become "acceptable". For many years, those whom we love are identified as such because of what they do for us. As we blossom toward adulthood, we acquire a new standard for our choice of whom we love. We begin to choose based on how that person enables us to feel about ourselves. Note that this is still a selfishly motivated reason. But it is natural to value those who treat us well, and act as if we are something special. They enable us to feel that our selfish motivations are right on target - because we are worth it. When you consider the concept, you realize that there really is no such thing as true altruism. We do the things we do because of how that enables us to feel about ourselves. The common binding thread throughout our lives is that love is a decision that we make. We may sometimes feel helpless about it, but the truth is - we made a decision. We are all, therefore, where we choose to be. Those who would have us believe they exist in unhappy situations need to squarely face the fact that they, on a day to day basis, choose to be there. If and when they find it unhappy ENOUGH, they will choose not to be there. The standard for "enough" is individually sized. Those who cheat on their marriage partners often can recite a litany of rationalization for the cheating. They have chosen the standard by which they can exist in their marriage. Note this is still a selfishly motivated choice, of course. The fact that their cheating may not adher to acceptable social standards is not a matter of concern or they would not do so. The "self" is supreme. Only those who have not grown as individuals very much since early childhood continue to blame external factors for their personal condition. Maturity brings acceptance of the consequences of choice. Swingers have gone a step above and beyond - we have integrated our inborn selfish instincts and our relationship commitment so that dishonesty has no place in our moral fiber. I myself choose to believe, then, that it is quite acceptable for us to feel a bit superior to the so-called moral majority. We have evolved to a higher plain.

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10-01-2003, 03:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
Elusive BiFem Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,398 Location: Texas Status: Single Female	How do you tell them? By using words. Ahhh...really...that is a frequent question. The answer is really simple - communication. Now getting there is the difficult part. Somehow...someway...people that are in open and honest and committed relationships can eventually get around to talking about their fantasies. I'm not suggesting that you just suddenly come out of the blue with, "Hey, honey...I'd love to watch you have sex with another man!" Might sorta put one's life in a little danger. But most of us have fantasies and as we begin to know and trust other people (spouses in this case) we can begin to share more of ourselves. And as we share, we judge the reaction...the other shares a little, and eventually, the conversations can wind up there. The key element is trust and safety in the person you are sharing with. Make sense? - EBF

10-01-2003, 03:46 PM	#17 (permalink)
Contact1 Active Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 13 Location: Massachusetts Status: Single Male	Yeah it does. I just feel bad for those who are involved in relationships with peoplthat are totally closed off you know? Bible thumper types. Cause then you are trapped in a relationship that will be unfulfilling and then you will become unhappy then resentful, then the cheating happens. Its a vicious cycle. Almost makes me glad I'm single.

10-11-2003, 12:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
Elusive BiFem Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,398 Location: Texas Status: Single Female	I note that your comments are your opinon, Lorri, and they are respected as such. However, I have to respectfully disagree with you and offer up my opinions, too. Women cheat too. Agreed. Cheating as a "huge misunderstanding?" I think not. I can buy into the fact that we are not necessarily meant to be mongamous creatures, and particularly with increased lengths of lifespan, etc. But to say that that it puts too much strain on people is too far of a stretch for me to buy into. I think cheating is nothing more than instant gratification and a total lack of respect or consideration for the partner being cheated on. Swinging is an entirely different story...it is something a couple chooses to do together. There is no deception, no secrecy. It is discussed and agreed to. Certainly, there are occasions when people are hurt as the result of swinging, but at least they go into it knowing there can be consequences. The wife or husband...sitting at home...thinking their spouse is being honest and faithful? Nope. Cheating is lying. Pure and simple. And there is nothing pretty about lying in any relationship. If one partner wants multiple partners and agreement and/or compromise cannot be reached to that end, the relationship should be ended. No one person has the right to inflict pain - emotional or physical - on another. My opinions. - EBF

10-14-2003, 06:44 PM	#25 (permalink)
PlayCplCanada Has Left the Building Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 15 Location: Windsor Status: Married Couple	Cheating Or Swinging ? We know a couple where they met another couple with the expectation of a possible encounter in mind , the women did not hit it off but the man went ahead and got together behind his wife's back and had an affair with the woman of that said couple. This happens all too often even in our lifestyle. Women and Men both cheat they are very selfish and only seem to think about themselves rather then their spouse. I would think that a lonely house wife who has minimal self esteem would want or lust an affair but would 'nt a job be safer ? Or a self help group? Most people who have affairs feel like crap afterwards. We do not condone cheating in swinging or cheating spouses in the lifestyle so I guess I am glad there is such sites for the likes of those types of people.