Is it cheating?

[azwildcat]

wrnakedru,
no, any view on this is enlightening, for i'm not sure how to handle this, he's never acted quite like this before.
yes, sometimes a little jealous but never like this.

it's the double standard thing that i hate about it all,
not that i am saying i don't want him talking to other women, but it's the fact the he refuse's to see that he's doing what he doesn't want me to do.

if this is how he's going to treat me in our relationship then i'm not sure i actually want to stay with him.

yes, i love him, but i'm the only one who's going to control of my life!!!!

[wrnakedru]

Sugar, all marriages can go through times that feel as if you're trying to run through thigh high pudding. (Now there's an interesting visual for you!)

And sometimes you are just butting your heads against each other but not in that good way, more like those goofy damned rams - who come a'runnin toward one another heads lowered, aiming those horns and BAM DAM BAM each other plumb silly:slam"

Now let's try one of my nonsensical analogies - let's say your marriage is a buckboard wagon, and you are a lovely prancing spirited roan mare, tossing your mane proudly and swishing that sassy tail. And your hubby is a chestnut stallion 17 hands and the strength of ten mustangs coursing through his body, hooves like steel. And let's say your owners, or masters are your children. Your children need you two to be hitched up to the wagon so that the children can go somewhere, actually in order for them to be able to go anywhere. So they see to it that you are both hitched to the wagon. And they go climb up on that buckboard bench, side by side, and click their tongues softly at you both, and say giddup, let's go. And there you all are. Not moving forward. The children begin shuffling their feet against the wagon in irritation. snap, giddup. You toss that mane back, flick that tail at a troublesome fly - and decide, they want to go to town. So you start off to the right. Only the wagon still isn't moving. You stop to think. The stallion gnashes his teeth, allowing his lips to pull back some in a sneer, pawes the ground with those powerful hooves, and knows the children want to go to the spring to get cool clear water, so he veers to the left, manages to budge the wagon only slightly.
Forgive the children, they didn't know or maybe they forgot. But the mare and the stallion know - and stand there thinking. No one remembered to hitch them together, besides just to the wagon, but together. So that they will work as a team, and that marriage can move forward, and those children will progress as well.
Blacksmith time? Counselor, honey. People with emotional investments, and defense systems that have built walls, and divisive issues they are keeping score with - - need the help of those professionally trained to help. If hubby doesn't agree it is needed, then you go for yourself. They are wonderfully trained to assist you in clearing your vision - so you can decide where to go from here.

[azwildcat]

wrnakedru,

oh, i got what you were saying before!
but believe me right now the only thing i'd like to do is hit a few times with my truck.
unfortunately, it'll just go over him, cuz of the lift on it damn!!!

i'm not going to make any rash decision, even if he's a d*$#@~ss besides if i can live through all of the other things i've been through then this shouldn't be anything.





now where did i put those car keys it's a lot lower to hit him with.

[yawanna]

IMHO he's insecure about your relationship. Thus you can flirt with women but not other men (online or wherever). Other women aren't a threat - some men think

Also.... for the sake of your relationship you both need to stop doing whatever you are doing online and/or in swinging and lifestyle to get a grip on your relationship with each other.

I titled this "flash back" because in my 5 or so years in lifestyle I've seen some pretty bad behaviour from couples.....and I once briefly dated a man who used me so he could be seen as a couple and gain access to more swinger women.

He chatted a lot online to women and if I chatted with men, he'd get very upset. I could never see his chats, he claimed msn wouldn't save them (pffftt). His behaviour made me very uncomfortable and each time that I asked him to stop talking online and that we not continue in swinging until we were comfy with each other, he balked at me and told me I was being insecure.

One thing I've learned and believe...any man who accuses you of being insecure, cheating or who says he's not sure if he can trust you...is doing exactly those things to you. The men who freak out accusing you of cheating are taking the 'best defense is an offense stance'.

I would say he ceases and desists with the swinging and talking online and focuses on just you and him for a bit, or..... toss him and cut your losses.

"Here's my 10 cents my 2 cents is free"

[azwildcat]

yawanna,


he's not accusing me of anything like cheating. he's just telling me how he feels about me flirting with other men, though it might seem like he's being defensive.

i really don't agree, about him being dishonest or not communicating with me, cuz he did let his feelings be known, even if he does what he tell's me what he doesn't want me to do < which by the way, i don't mind him doing, i'm not insecure about this at all.

i'm just disliking the whole double standard thing he does.



i don't mean to attack you, if you think that i have i apologize.
didn't mean to offend all opinions are always welcomed, even if i might not agree.

[wrnakedru]

Originally posted by yawanna
One thing I've learned and believe...any man who accuses you of being insecure, cheating or who says he's not sure if he can trust you...is doing exactly those things to you. The men who freak out accusing you of cheating are taking the 'best defense is an offense stance'.

Thank you so much, yawanna, for expressing the same I was thinking - and just did not want to say straight out, so as not to hurt AZ's feelings and heart.
I realize there are times that "plain talk" is the better route, but it is just so hard for me to push out those words I know are going to cause pain. I always hope someone will get there on their own so I don't have to.
Of course, our cared for friend AZ may have already gotten there herself and is simply not giving voice to those same thoughts. I'll bet her past experiences, with him as well as prior husbands, have left her fully aware of which way the wind blows.

AZ, dear heart, I'm sorry - I'm sorry for what you are going through, I'm sorry if I failed you by not giving voice to this myself. And most of all I'm sorry for the pain I have caused you if you were hoping not to hear this, but your heart was already saying
was true!

Hugs to you AZ - and to Yawanna too!

[yawanna]

so he chats online or flirts whatever with women and this doesn't bother you in the least. When you flirt or chat online with men it bothers him.

I don't see a double standard.. I see him saying 'when you do that, it makes me uncomfortable'.

Reverse the roles and see how it sits. If you don't mind him chatting, great! If he minds you chatting/flirting and you stop, great!

This is about swinging (I think) so No means No and that gets respected and doesn't have to be 'explained'... talking about it over time is a good thing, tho...but if what he's doing doesn't bother you, and what you are doing bothers him, you have to stop doing what bothers him. At least, in swinging

If it's not about abuse, power, control, anger, etc. etc. in the relationship and it IS about swinging...you stop doing what upsets him about it...then.... what's the problem?

[Flori_DAMAN]

Just a couple of observations.

No. 1. If someone thinks you are cheating that does not necessarily mean the accuser is cheating. It may mean it, but not always. Sometimes there is an unknown factor involved just as an example. My wife's sister tried to stir up some shit with us once by telling me that my wife was seeing some guy. She made me promise not to tell her she said it. That was a mistake. I accused her of being with so and so and could not back up my claim. She said "the accuser is usually the guilty one" and that started a real snowball. We made it through by compromising. She agreed to stop hanging with him if I told her why I felt I felt the way I did. Needless to say, her sis no longer trusted me, but that was the way I set my personal priorities.

Just an example of shit that can happen. To accuse does not automatically make anyone guilty, nor does it make the one accused guilty. Communication needs to be deeper than old wife cliches.

No. 2. What may seem perfectly harmless to one can be a threat to another. Suppose Azwild's hubby thinks flirting online is threatening. He tolerates it but doesn't like it. In order to "get even", he does it. Suddenly he finds himself in a situation he can't handle. Now he is defensive, offensive and stressed out.

I think the key word is compromise in any relationship. To advise to use swinging or lack thereof as a means of solving the problem in my opinion is unwise. I woulnd't stop doing anything. I would start talking though. If my partner said, hey I don't want to swing anymore, because I find it to be excessive, stressfull or just plain boring then no problem, we don't swing.

If my partner said, " I'm not going to swing until you act the way I want you to", now we have a problem. I would take that like a mother saying you can't have candy unless you act right. If it weren't swinging then what? Sex in general? That is not the way to most mens hearts or minds.

John

[windsor4fun2]

Originally posted by azwildcat
so, you'll help me hide the body for real!!!!

Friends help you move.

Good friends help you move a body.

[yawanna]

Just an example of shit that can happen. To accuse does not automatically make anyone guilty, nor does it make the one accused guilty. Communication needs to be deeper than old wife cliches.

First off: when I asked him about the women he was talking to online and what were they talking about? and this was the result of the women asking ME what was HE talking about.....and his response was - 'hey....are you cheating on me???'

I guess I should have been more clear......

He was cheating on me. No one told me he was until AFTER I found out. And by then he had been kicked to the curb.

He tolerates it but doesn't like it. In order to "get even", he does it

' get even' is not tolerating. And in swinging... it's not about toleration, or compromise IMHO. It's about doing something that works for you both, and NOT doing something that works for one at the expense of the other.

In swinging..there is no 'middle ground'. It works for both or it's bad for one. no grey area.

If my partner said, " I'm not going to swing until you act the way I want you to", now we have a problem. I would take that like a mother saying you can't have candy unless you act right. If it weren't swinging then what? Sex in general? That is not the way to most mens hearts or minds.

Who the heck suggested THAT?

It's just bad form, and judgment, and misdirected attempts at problem solving relationships to get into swinging when the couple are less than 'solid' with each other and their relationship.

If her man there doesn't want her 'chatting' online with men and she doesn't like him telling her this while HE continues to chat up women online.. to me.. this is a red flag... take a time out. Stop getting into other areas with other people that are causing one or both of you distress in your primary relationship.

Take a break. Swinging is extraneous to the core relationship. And be responsible to others. Don't drag them into something they shouldn't be involved in ie: the couple and their relationship. Isn't that sacred land in swinging?

[Flori_DAMAN]

Originally posted by yawanna




First off: when I asked him about the women he was talking to online and what were they talking about? and this was the result of the women asking ME what was HE talking about.....and his response was - 'hey....are you cheating on me???'

I guess I should have been more clear......

He was cheating on me. No one told me he was until AFTER I found out. And by then he had been kicked to the curb.



' get even' is not tolerating. And in swinging... it's not about toleration, or compromise IMHO. It's about doing something that works for you both, and NOT doing something that works for one at the expense of the other.

In swinging..there is no 'middle ground'. It works for both or it's bad for one. no grey area.



Who the heck suggested THAT?

It's just bad form, and judgment, and misdirected attempts at problem solving relationships to get into swinging when the couple are less than 'solid' with each other and their relationship.

If her man there doesn't want her 'chatting' online with men and she doesn't like him telling her this while HE continues to chat up women online.. to me.. this is a red flag... take a time out. Stop getting into other areas with other people that are causing one or both of you distress in your primary relationship.

Take a break. Swinging is extraneous to the core relationship. And be responsible to others. Don't drag them into something they shouldn't be involved in ie: the couple and their relationship. Isn't that sacred land in swinging?

OH I agree wholeheartedly. I was suggesting that there is no one-cure solves all. I was saying that just because someone is suspicious that doesnt make the suspicious one guilty of anything. Thats all.

To stop doing things can result in doing nothing. To begin talking can allow for nourishment and growth and maybe doing lots more things after all.

John

[Flori_DAMAN]

Threads are so hard to keep up with. I really was responding to people that may have posted quite a while ago, not necessarily you, Yawanna. I Sure agree more with ya than not.

John

[OhioCouple]

As someone who was cheated on in her first marriage.... This is my experience.

The more he cheated, the more he accused me of doing so. Never mind that he was my first and only. Seven years later, I walked out the door and never looked back. One of the smartest moves I ever made in my life. With that said...

I abhor cheating of any sort. I don't care if it is physical, online or by phone, etc. I will not tolerate it. What we do, we do together and with the full knowledge of the other. Neither of us are into the online sexual talk and if flirtation occurs, both must be present. We keep one e-mail address strictly for swingers and we both read and share all mail and will save instant messages for the other to read, if we feel the other might need to look at it. The only people that get that address or IM information are those that we have BOTH grown to know and trust. Some have our personal addresses, but we each have access to those if either wants to go and read them. We hide nothing from each other, but allow ourselves privacy and trust that we will share anything that the other needs to know.

If either of us were to start online flirting, (without the knowledge and approval of the other) I would take that as a signal that our marriage was in deep trouble, the least of which would be the online flirting, as most likely our lack of communication went deeper than just that.

[Flori_DAMAN]

When you have been cheated on it is so hard. I just don't understand why people do that to each other. Mrs. O, is fortunate to have a man that she is stable with. It will take a long time for me to find that again I know that.

I have broken a lot of bones. I have been stolen from. I have had horrible sickness. I suffered the death of my wife. But not to compare the last one, there is no pain like being cheated on.

John

[azwildcat]

well, ok all stop all this arguing already i get what everyone is saying to me about the problem i have, we're both honest with eachother with the chatting online with other people. he just started doing this after all the problems we've had this past few months.
after these replys i've recieved from my question i had to really get to the bottom of all of this with him and find out why it has been bothering him so much now, when it had never before.
well, turns out he had some insecurity issues after our resent separation that i would leave him for someone else. all he needed was some reassurance that it wouldn't happen.

as far as swinging goes. well, that to us both think its a separate issue and have not had any problems with that at all, seeing that it's mainly me who does anything with another female
{all done with his permission and consent of course}
we never let any differences that accure between us go any further then our own bedroom{except this board of course, which he fully understand why i do} and we never hurt anyone we are involved with, we simply let them know that we need time to resolve our differences before we can continue with any kind of sexaul relationship with them.

now that i know the reason behind his behavior we can get past this and he's actually not opposing to me chatting anymore, just as long as i let him know about the chats i have.
{which i never hide for him to begin with}
he seems to be alright with it now, knowing that i won't do what he was fearing i would.
hey, we've been together for a long time and have gone to hell and back sometimes it seems something like this wouldn't tare us apart {piss us off maybe, but he's irish and i'm spanish so it's to be expected} we get past it and go on besides what married couple never have disagreement's?




thank's to all of ya who tried to make me see something that i couldn't and somewhat refused too. thank's


windsor4fun2,

thank's for offering to help hide the body, i'll tell ya later what i did with it!!