Activities with cheating men. Thoughts?

[bill&sabrina]

Originally Posted by Mr. Truelove

I think that your original post of "And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?" was a statement provoking exactly the type of response that you recieved.

Mr. Truelove

Yes a few people can say loud and proud swinging hasn't caused any problems for them. Its sad though, that the point is ignored.

[Mr. Truelove]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

Yes a few people can say loud and proud swinging hasn't caused any problems for them. Its sad though, that the point is ignored.

Please explain then. What is this point that is being ignored? I tried to read as much as possible into your short retort, but apparently I missed it.

Mr. Truelove

[flkeyscouple]

Originally Posted by Mr. Truelove

Please explain then. What is this point that is being ignored? I tried to read as much as possible into your short retort, but apparently I missed it.

I, too, am confused. I can honestly say loud and proud swinging hasn't caused any problems for them because swinging HASN'T caused ANY problems for us. So.. what is your point "Its sad though, that the point is ignored." I don't understand that comment. Can you explain??

Mrs. FLKeys

[iapr]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Hi All!

I haven’t posted here in a while, but we just met a couple last night, who had a slightly different take on the Lifestyle, and I was curious about your thoughts.

They do some “cheat and greets” now and again. They may meet a couple and each go out alone with the other’s spouse. Or she may meet another guy, have some fun, and come home and tell the husband, etc. Him, too, on occasion.

That’s all fine and dandy – hotwife… whatever it’s called.

But here is where it gets a bit bizarre:

The “hot wife” often sleeps with married men who are cheating on their own wives. These are also men in her everyday, vanilla world. A colleague from the same company; trainer from the gym; old friend; business networking group, etc.

All these guys are married and cheating.

My partner and I are never ones to judge others. We always believed the more open people are with sex, the Lifestyle, open-marriages, fetishes, honesty, etc. etc. the better.

We’ve always said that the Lifestyle is not just about sex. Sex is the result of honesty, communication, open-mindedness, etc. I know you all understand, but the average vanilla may not.

The woman kept telling us, “It’s not MY sin!”; “I’M not lying!”; “That’s the GUY’s problem!”… And the husband kinda laughed at it.

I dunno.

Are we turning old-fashioned and prude?

Or is there really just something “unlifestyle-esque” about doing it with these cheating men from the community. It’s not that we looked at this woman and “lost respect” for her… but, Hmmm… as open-minded as we are, these people have WIVES sitting at home, thinking their husbands are at business meetings.

What do you think?

I understand that not all lifestylers have occasional separate activities, and to each his or her own. I’m not one to judge and say whether or not that enhances or detracts from a marriage. It’s going off with married, cheating men that kinda make my partner and I look at each other and go “gulp.”

I am so curious to hear your opinions!

I have not read the other 4 pages of responses so this is just addressing my views on the OP. My humble opinion is you are correct and that this is very unlifestyle-esque and that at best gives swinging a very bad name. This is the type of thing that vanillas fear from swingers is that we will be screwing their partners behind their back. IMHO this is ammoral, unethical and just downright slutty. Call me judgemental all you want this is just plain adultery and cheating and homewrecking and it is being done by someone who calls herself(it'sself) a swinger.

I agree with you that so much of the lifestyle is about the openness and honesty and being open minded to others preferences etc. I don't see where any of that comes into play when you are fucking someone behind their partners back. That is just fucking.

I am also pretty appalled that she would just laugh off that it is not "her sin", I agree that the guys sticking it into her are the ones that have the obligation to their spouse but is she so desparate for sex and attention and approval that she is willing to ruin other peoples marriages and have innocent children being bounced from one parent to the next every weekend just so she can get some cock which she can get whenever she wants anyway?

If you are old fashioned and prude, I am right there with you and hope that many of the other folks on here are too.

[lovinher]

I haven't read all four pages either. I don't need to because this is easy. There is no explanation or excuse that changes my take on this. In my opinion the people playing with cheaters (men or women) are just as _____________ as the cheater. To me it says something about their character and ethics.

[spectraschain]

gives swinging a very bad name

That, my friends, is absolutely priceless.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by spectraschain

That, my friends, is absolutely priceless.

You talk as though there's nothing good about swinging? Swinging does have a bad name...among those in the mainstream. It's the less-than-honourable behaviour of some of the participants that has contributed to this. So what if everyone behaved morally and ethically? Would swinging still have a bad name? That would be a resounding yes. But at least they'd just be ignorant about us...not right. When we behave badly, it proves them right. There is SOOO much bullshit being slung around about swingers and the lifestyle and most of it is distorted fiction. I personally don't want such ignoramuses to be right about anything that I do in this regard. I'd like to just be able to say to them, "You're an ignorant idiot. Get a clue."

[curiousagain]

I was just gonna pop in with my usual "enough trouble finds you, don't go looking for it" that I always give on this subject. But, today I was reading a news story where a man shot another man who was having an affair with his wife. Then she lost her job because of the affair. Her lover dead, husband jailed, jobless, and homeless, she attempted suicide and then their kids were placed in the care of the state.


There's a moral to that story somewhere. I don't think anybody came out good in that scenario. Living in a glass house, I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone. But, I try to avoid those kind of scenarios.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by intuition897

There is SOOO much bullshit being slung around about swingers and the lifestyle and most of it is distorted fiction.

Hi Intuition,

Sadly, I believe that a lot of what is slung around about swingers isn't fiction at all. From what I've observed, there are a number of swingers that I would classify as nothing less than pigs. Not us, of course! But like any large and diverse group, we are all different. We all conduct ourselves differently. Unfortunately, there is a significant number of people calling themselves swingers that are lacking in intelligence and good common sense, are irresponsible, indiscreet, drunkards, drama queens, liars, bad parents, and more.

Just as in any large population of people, the worst of the group are the most visible and usually get noticed more. I'll use my own region for an example. People stereotypically think of south Georgians as slow, inarticulate rednecks. I could make a great argument against that by talking about those of us who are not, but the fact is, there are a lot of moronic rednecks in the region. It's probably not as much of the population down here as outsiders would think, but enough to give our region the reputation. I think it's exactly the same in swinging.

[Alura]

Curiousagain wrote:

Her lover dead, husband jailed, jobless, and homeless, she attempted suicide and then their kids were placed in the care of the state.

Sometimes you just have to ask yourself, "Is is worth it?"

No, it isn't.

Mr. Alura

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Tybee_Swing

Unfortunately, there is a significant number of people calling themselves swingers that are lacking in intelligence and good common sense, are irresponsible, indiscreet, drunkards, drama queens, liars, bad parents, and more

Exactly. This is where the activity is defined by the "bad apples" in it. Sort of the way the word "Christian" ruffles feathers. Christianity is inherently good, and an ideal model to form one's life after, but the mere utterance of the word Christian brings to mind a lot of other very negative words...at least to a great many people. I'm not saying swinging is anything like a religion, but there are definitely ideals that swinging includes that are appliciable to the rest of one's life. Respect, trust, tolerance, etc., to name a few. To me, a thing that is, at it's purest core, a very good thing should not be defined as bad just because some people who claim to be members of it don't get what it's all about.

[meandher2go]

but what its all about is really up to the individual couple. for us its about enjoying sex with other people. but doing it as a couple. we really are NOT looking for relationships other than in bed. it has happened where we met a couple or 2 and ended up being friends. but its about sex for us, not more.

we have NEVER wanted or will end up being friends with a cheating guy/girl for obvious reasons mentioned here. there isnt much of a chance of that cheating guy trying to hook up with her behind my back. (not to mention she isnt interested) but we are carefull of that and never give out much personal info. the contact is thru email and my cell phone which wont be tracked back to me or my address. so we are not worried about that.

but is it morally wrong, im sure it is....sorry but it works for US

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Exactly. This is where the activity is defined by the "bad apples" in it. Sort of the way the word "Christian" ruffles feathers. Christianity is inherently good, and an ideal model to form one's life after, but the mere utterance of the word Christian brings to mind a lot of other very negative words...at least to a great many people. I'm not saying swinging is anything like a religion, but there are definitely ideals that swinging includes that are appliciable to the rest of one's life. Respect, trust, tolerance, etc., to name a few. To me, a thing that is, at it's purest core, a very good thing should not be defined as bad just because some people who claim to be members of it don't get what it's all about.

Hi Intuition (one of my favorite people here, by the way),

I have to concur with meandher2go on this - he said, "What its all about is really up to the individual couple."

Swingers are swingers, regardless of what they know or think they know about the lifestyle. They all have their own way and there are no rules or standard guidelines to determine what a "true" swinger is. They don't have to learn certain things, or learn anything at all about swinging to be swingers and call themselves swingers. If they get drunk with their neighbors, inadvertently end up playing naked Trivial Pursuit followed by having some form of sex with each other, they can call themselves swingers. They can do it without giving it a thought before they act. They can be any kind of person and conduct themselves in any manner they wish.

You mentioned certain "ideals" that swinging includes. I disagree that swinging has a set of ideals. You and I may have those particular ideals - not because they are swinging ideals, but because those are our own personal values (we were already like this before swinging). Christianity and Christian behavior is mandated by the Bible, and by the life of Christ as an example to follow. Christianity has certain very clearly defined parameters. Christians are commanded by a higher authority to follow these behaviors and live within these parameters (following a narrow path). The New Testament says that you will recognize who is a true Christian by the behavior they manifest - "You will know them by their fruit" (how they conduct themselves).

Swinging has no such mandate, no such example of behavior that swingers are supposed to follow. Without a Supreme Authority of Swinging, who is there to say what the ideals of swinging are? Respect, trust, honesty and tolerance are beautiful human characteristics (I value these and I know that you do). However, they aren't inherently part of swinging, and they don't define swinging. Many people are longterm swingers and "real" swingers without abiding by all or even some of these traits/characteristics in the lifestyle.

You mentioned "some people who claim to be members". There's no membership roster for swinging, and no standards for who's "in" and who's "out" of the club. Swinging is a free-for-all.

All we can do is know what our own personal standards are as human beings (not as swingers), avoid people we don't want to associate with because of their behavior and choices, and connect ourselves with people who share our personal ideals (not the non-existent swinger ideals).

[sereneiders]

I agree 100% with Spoo and Ths Fuse.

Originally Posted by meandher2go

we have had a few cheaters (men and women) and our thought on it is, we cant or wont change anyones mind, so why bother trying. we dont police other peoples lives. we are NOT the marraige police. If we find a cheater who happens to float our boats, we feel they are a match, we meet with them and see where it goes.

it might not be right, but its how we feel.

You're representative of the lady mentioned by the OP. You're entitled to your perspective, your set of ethics, and your feelings... as much as we do, and you wouldn't be elegible playmates.

Following the same approach, you may have an STD and not tell anyone just because it would dimish your chances to score, if you infect your playmates because they, let say, engaged in oral without condoms, without being warned, just because "they knew their chances", it would be ok for you.

Now you can claim I am streetching the example, that it wouldn't be the same, but it won't be the same if WE ALL stick to YOUR concepts of what's REAL damage, when for other people, what really cares are THEIR concepts of what's real damage. What matters is if this would be a real damage for the cheated spouse should he/she know. A responsible attitude would be to go to the source for this information, and if the sourse were unreachable, then you may suppose this IS damaging because if not, the guy wouldn't be cheating on the spouse at all.

I cannot care less about YOUR TAKE, once you claim you give a shit about everyone's else take, including mine. Moreover, you're DANGEROUS for me, for my relationship, because I expect our playmates to be as carafull with us as we are with our playmates, and this would be too hard for you, since you're just looking for an easy fuck.

Besides, there is other aspect involved here to address: the way we, as a community, would like to be perceived by the rest of our society.

This careless and unresponsible behavior affects us all, moreover when people claiming to be swingers appologizes for "their right" to behave this way, because this fits all the wrong prejudices most vanilla people have about swingers: people lacking the ethics the rest of the society stands for, people who gives a shit about their acts consecuences for as long as they get what they want.

They may wonder why people like this wouldn't be up to steal or commit any other crime, should they find out a way to avoid being caught. This sole argument would be enough to fire someone from his/her work after knowing he/she's a swinger. I could lose my job on those grounds, just because my boss assume I share YOUR moral standards, when mines are way higher, even higher than the average vanilla guy (not to mention those vanilla guys claiming to have high standards while cheating on their spouses).

So, I believe this is wrong at many, many levels as to remain silent. I draw a line between swinging and "just" recreational sex: swinging requires a responsible attitude, mainly to preserve our relationship, but also to preserve the relationships and the values of those we play with.

[josephanthony69]

Thanks for speaking up, it is about the fun and eroticism of the sex and not the relationship. Being the extra M in a couple of MFM's it is a lot of fun!!

Originally Posted by meandher2go

but what its all about is really up to the individual couple. for us its about enjoying sex with other people. but doing it as a couple. we really are NOT looking for relationships other than in bed. it has happened where we met a couple or 2 and ended up being friends. but its about sex for us, not more.

we have NEVER wanted or will end up being friends with a cheating guy/girl for obvious reasons mentioned here. there isnt much of a chance of that cheating guy trying to hook up with her behind my back. (not to mention she isnt interested) but we are carefull of that and never give out much personal info. the contact is thru email and my cell phone which wont be tracked back to me or my address. so we are not worried about that.

but is it morally wrong, im sure it is....sorry but it works for US