Activities with cheating men. Thoughts?

[spectraschain]

Swingers are all honest, and don't bring any drama with them.

We find it rather ironic that people here hold this "lifestyle" beyond contestation.

As if to say, "we swing honestly, therefore we are."

[spectraschain]

Originally Posted by cave dwellers

"we swing honestly, therefore we are."

Let us expound on this for a moment....

On second thought, let's not....this is best left to a new thread. Please, you here that fear not to be judged by the same yardstick you judge others by, feel free to participate.

Forthcoming.......

[tribbles]

If someone tells us they are married (and cheating) before we meet, we don't meet.

More than once at a club, after we play, we find single guys are married or a couple is married but not to each other.

And who knows how often that happens but they never admit it?

We work to avoid playing with cheaters but we are sure it happens.

[Mr. Truelove]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

Jesus fucking christ. Exclamation points and yelling? Is that really needed? My mistake for thinking my point would be figured out. I'm pleased as punch for those of you that haven't encountered drama, but the odds are good you will have to deal with it as a swinger. This board is full of posts about drama being forced on people, but those people must be lying. Swingers are all honest, and don't bring any drama with them. What was I thinking for suggesting that a lifestyle where you have sex with someone other than your partner, could lead to unwanted drama. I guess I was stupid to suggest that.

I think what people are saying is that bringing swinging into their marriage didn't bring drama into their relationship. Between spouses. From this post of yours, you seem to be referring to that when swinging with other couples, sometimes there is some sort of drama in the relationship between couples. (or singles even)

I think this is actually an agreement. Yes, by being swingers you open yourself up to the possibility you will run across couples (or singles) that create drama. However, I think most people try to minimize that risk. After all, like most profiles read, "We don't want drama!" So by not playing with cheaters this is a step in that direction.

It would seem to me that a person that is cheating on his wife, likely will treat you with the same lack of respect. In fact, I go so far as to say that when we are out with another couple, I look for signs of affection to show me how secure they are. Because that security, that love for each other, is exactly the sign that shows me there likely won't be any of this drama. It was even brought up in a thread by TNT: Click here!

When you swing with a cheater there is also a opportunity for the spouse to find out he/she was cheating and retaliate at you. That's some drama I certainly would never want to be in.

I think that your original post of "And swinging doesn't introduce drama into a marriage?" was a statement provoking exactly the type of response that you recieved.

Mr. Truelove

[havefuninsun]

I'm a firm believer that what goes around, comes around. Karma is a funny, funny thing. Therefore, while I understand why someone might cheat, and what draws people to think that the grass is greener on the other side, I don't know of anyone who has crossed that line that didn't pay the price for it. And most can't say it was worth it. It's called drama -- and at the end of the day, they wished they didn't have to deal with all that drama.

With all that said, do we want any part of that? No we don't. This is about fun and adventure, not about hurt and lawsuits. And I assure you; if you want your swing life to be very private, and you pick your partners by their trustworthiness (as well as other attributes), adding a wild card to the mix completely nixes all that safe planning.

So for those who don't mind playing with cheating spouses, that's your decision. For those who find playing with cheaters a bad thing, that's (our) decision as well.

[spectraschain]

adding a wild card to the mix

What sound advice.....nothing the least bit "wild" about the activities associated with the theme of this board........

When do you stop to look over your shoulder...seriously?

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by spectraschain

What sound advice.....nothing the least bit "wild" about the activities associated with the theme of this board........

When do you stop to look over your shoulder...seriously?

I'd be curious to know just what your opinion of swinging actually is? Do you consider it to be wrong, immoral and unnatural or something? Because we don't. We being Mr. intuition and I; I can't speak for anyone else. Wild? Yes, I suppose it is an activity that pushes the envelope, but I feel that anything less than 100% is less than living to our full potential. So we do what makes us feel fully alive. Swinging does this for us. NOTHING we have ever done before it or since compares to its intensity or vitality enhancing effect on us or our relationship. Cheating just doesn't fit into our philosophy. Yes, we're idealists, but we don't apologize for it. Without idealists, Man would be screwed. No hope = screwed.

I dunno. For us, bottom line is that swinging is moral, and cheating is not. Sex has nothing to do with it.

[spectraschain]

Do you consider it to be wrong, immoral and unnatural

Not at all. "or something" would be my stand.

NOTHING we have ever done before it or since compares to its intensity or vitality enhancing effect on us or our relationship.

Nothing? This is a "religious" experience for you? Is this "the one thing" that you searched for far & wide for through life's journey? The regard that this "lifestyle" is held in by those here is borderline fanatical.

Cheating just doesn't fit into our philosophy.

This argument no longer encompases "cheating". It's morphed into a question of whether or not this truly is "the only one way to live". You tell me. Am I missing some greater calling that only swinging can deliver? And must I play "according to Hoyle" to derive the full benefit? I recall the words honesty, trustworthiness, judgement... scattered thoughout this thread...

Here we thought it was about sex.

intuition, we've sparred in the past on this very same piece of ground, and I appreciate your insights. I play the devil's advocate, because one can break a leg when falling from a tall horse...

[tribbles]

Here we thought it was about sex.

Actually, for many of us, it's not about sex.

It's about the activities, that can be sexual, and how they enhance our relationship.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by spectraschain

Nothing? This is a "religious" experience for you? Is this "the one thing" that you searched for far & wide for through life's journey? The regard that this "lifestyle" is held in by those here is borderline fanatical.

I'm not sure what you want me to say here. Religious experience? Extramarital sex? No, not quite. But the things within my relationship with Mr. intuition that swinging highlights or punctuates have been something like a religious experience, yes. It's not the sex that I'm extolling the virtues of. It's the opportunities that it affords our relationship that I love.

Originally Posted by spectraschain

This argument no longer encompases "cheating". It's morphed into a question of whether or not this truly is "the only one way to live". You tell me. Am I missing some greater calling that only swinging can deliver? And must I play "according to Hoyle" to derive the full benefit? I recall the words honesty, trustworthiness, judgement... scattered thoughout this thread...

You talk as though you weren't a swinger. Is this the case? All I know is that FOR ME/US, I wouldn't live any other way. Anything else would simply not feel as honest or natural. You can play however you want and it's nothing to me. Just because I have an opinion about it doesn't mean you have to listen to me. And vice versa.

Originally Posted by spectraschain

Here we thought it was about sex.

Depends on who you ask. If you ask me, it's about putting sex in its place and not allowing the tail to wag the dog anymore. It's about purposely de-idolizing sex and using it responsibly to improve our lives and relationships.

Originally Posted by spectraschain

intuition, we've sparred in the past on this very same piece of ground, and I appreciate your insights. I play the devil's advocate, because one can break a leg when falling from a tall horse...

Meh...keeps things interesting.

[Chicup]

This topic brings up bad memories for me of a certain 'hot wife' thread we had a while back.

I'll just put my thoughts down in a nut shell.

1. Do I think its ethically wrong to swing with cheaters? Yes.

2. Do I feel I'm being a marriage police in thinking this? No, I'm not arresting you just stating my opinion.

3. Do I really care about it? No. Its not something I would be comfortable doing on more than one level, but in a swinging sense the guy (or woman) had already made up their mind to cheat, the only question is who will accommodate them. I'm much less forgiving of the 'hot wifers' due to the seduction aspect of a guy who wasn't really looking for it. This is a guy who may get caught up in the seduction only to feel guilty about it for the rest of his life, or worse ruin someones marriage and drastically alter their future. Its preying on someones weakness.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by spectraschain

What sound advice.....nothing the least bit "wild" about the activities associated with the theme of this board........

When do you stop to look over your shoulder...seriously?

Well, this got way off tangent, now didn't it?

I think what havefuninsun meant by:

With all that said, do we want any part of that? No we don't. This is about fun and adventure, not about hurt and lawsuits. And I assure you; if you want your swing life to be very private, and you pick your partners by their trustworthiness (as well as other attributes), adding a wild card to the mix completely nixes all that safe planning.

had nothing to do with whether or not our activities are views as "wild" by some, but rather someone using us to cheat on their spouse adds an element into swinging that we can't control... the hurt and or jealous spouse that could cause at the least drama for us. This drama could range anywhere from a simple angry phone call to physical, emotional, or financial harm to us.

The term "wild card" was used to describe an uncontrollable variable, not a specific life activity.

I'm sure you saw this too, and as you say are just playing the devil's advocate with your above face-value statement.

Mr. WS

[spectraschain]

Just because I have an opinion about it doesn't mean you have to listen to me.

I like to listen to you...as do others here...your opinion is valuable to me.

Sure, I rattle a few chains now & again, but you will find my targets are the insightful, opinionated, somewhat excitable participants.

Thank you, ma'am, for indulging me from time to time...if in fact you care to tell me to go f**k myself, I understand and will do as told...

[havefuninsun]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Well, this got way off tangent, now didn't it?

I think what havefuninsun meant by: had nothing to do with whether or not our activities are views as "wild" by some, but rather someone using us to cheat on their spouse adds an element into swinging that we can't control... the hurt and or jealous spouse that could cause at the least drama for us. This drama could range anywhere from a simple angry phone call to physical, emotional, or financial harm to us.

The term "wild card" was used to describe an uncontrollable variable, not a specific life activity.

I'm sure you saw this too, and as you say are just playing the devil's advocate with your above face-value statement.

Mr. WS

Thanks, WS -- that is what I meant.

Our activities are risky. That is a fact. It is MORE risky if we are playing with someone who's spouse doesn't know what is going on. THAT person hasn't given their blessings, they're not in part of the trusted group.

You're right; just because I *think* you're trustworthy doesn't mean you are. The hurt spouse I can guarantee isn't trustworthy; why would they be? What do they have to lose?

The non-knowing spouse is a wild card -- I don't know how they will behave with the knowledge of playing. I'm not willing to take that risk.

[clutch]

Currently, we're monogamous with another couple, so this isn't an issue.

However, I would never promote a relationship with a cheating husband or wife for practical reasons.

The first and greatest being the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States--namely the fact that U.S. Citizens have the right to bear arms. Fortunately, back in the day, we never had that middle of the night phone call with a shrieking spouse accusing us of a-whoring with his wife or husband with a lot of associated physical threats.

We did hear stories of others who had received such phone calls and vowed that they'd be more careful about who they shared a bed with.

We have had, back in the day, threesomes with married men or women who were in open relationships--ie their spouse would drop them off and kiss them goodbye for their "date." It wasn't for us, though. Our personal preference is couple/couple.

As far as actually, personally judging someone for cheating, I kind of lean toward "Let him without sin cast the first stone." Whether someone cheats or not is his/her business. I won't hate or condemn them for that. I just won't be the one they cheat with--again, because I value my life and health.