My own opinion on cheating husbands

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN

If you are good at it though and can find the single guy that is truly into the lifestyle then you have found a rare and cherished gem. For a while cuz.

He won't be single for long either.

I couldn't agree with this statement more. That is probably what makes it such slim pickings for swingers looking for the true honest single swinging male.

Mrs. O

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by 4sum
Don't we as husbands of swinging women have the ultimate luxury of having a type of totally self contained Madonna/Whore complex relating entirely to our own Wives?

4sum, I don't understand what you mean? Very interested though, one of the reasons why I'm here is to learn more about myself.

My point of view on the Madonna/Whore complex is that a swinging husband learns to love his wife as a complete person without having a need to repress her sexuality. A more traditional outlook leads a guy into the idea that he should be with a 'nice' girl for the long term, but that when he wants to have some fun he should go after a cheap slutty tramp. He disparages promiscuous women and he feels threatened when the mother of his children fantasizes about crazy sex because she's supposed to be the nice girl, not the slut.

An entirely valid question would be "Why do you care?" I don't know, I just do. I respect my wife. Everybody in the world doesn't have to, but for whatever reason I need to see respect in any guy who wants to fuck her. Guys with the Madonna/Whore complex who see her as the cheap trashy screw while they are still on the search for the virginal future mother of their children, those guys just piss me off.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN If you are good at it though and can find the single guy that is truly into the lifestyle then you have found a rare and cherished gem.

Agreed, definitely.

Having gone through a lot of both, I still say that a quality single guy is much more difficult to find than a sexy, bisexual, single female.

[4sum]

My point of view on the Madonna/Whore complex is that a swinging husband learns to love his wife as a complete person without having a need to repress her sexuality.

True but for many of us, our wives are paragons of social virtue. It's an incredible turn on to see her getting nasssty with another person(s) or even myself, knowing nobody would ever suspect that kind of behavior from her. It's like having your cake and eating it too in that regard. I would suspect that many of the women derive a rush out of flouting the standard that you can be either a naughy girl or a nice girl, but not both.

[uberkraker]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe

Here is the problem: you're interested in participating in crazy sex parties. You don't want to go to a crazy sex party that's full of nothing but men, though, so you look for crazy sex parties that single women go to as well as single men.

What we have in reality is teeming masses of single guys who are looking for cheap, easy, no-obligation sex. Every guy in the world is looking for cheap, easy, no-obligation sex, so what entitles any given single guy to admission to a gender-balanced sex party?

Fair enough. However, just because you happen to be interested in wild sex doesn't mean you expect it to be cheap, easy or to come with no obligation. Have you ever been given something for free? If so, how much did you value it? As much as an 8K Rolex (or insert luxury item here) you had to save for two years to purchase? The natural reaction when being presented with an offer that's "cheap, easy and non-obligatory" is to wonder what its defects are. What's wrong with this picture?

Personally, I pass on the cheap and easy route because the risk is not worth the reward (and beacuse of the fact that nothing is really "free"). In my experience, anyone offering this more often than not (I'm sure you'll allow me some generalizations of my own, here) has other psychodrama-type issues that I don't want to be involved with. Creeps come in all packages, couples and singles.

All of these and other reasons are why I don't frequent swing clubs. Not all of us have the frat boy mentality to run around snivelling with erection in hand. Some of us actually want to go clubbing together and get drunk on Friday night weeks later. Burned bridges are NEVER a good thing. Ever. And cheap, easy and no obligation eventually leads to burned bridges. Period. Don't confuse this with poly relationships - it's not where I was going.

Your point is far more valid if your ultimate goal is to eventually find a woman of your own who is sexually compatible with you. You said that you're not. If you spend all of your energy on hooking up with swinging wives and no energy on finding your own woman then I would have to start wondering about you again.

Actually, that's not what I said.

To clarify, I would LOVE to find another single woman with all of the following qualities (not an exhaustive list):

1. Enjoys kinky sex with multiple partners
2. Ambition
3. Intestinal Fortitude
4. Integrity
5. Financial Acumen
6. Beauty

etc, etc, etc.

Guess which attribute is hardest to find (taken in combination with the others)? Ding ding ding! That's correct Alex, kinky sex with multiple partners! Show him what he's won!

I find the most promising leads come from my married friends in the lifestyle who play "cupid," which is a big reason for my behavior. Someday I'll roll sixes. I know it.

Am I going to lose sleep pining over this Unicorn-like creature I'd like to have share my life? No. It's not my job to try to force something like that to happen, it's fate. If it's meant to happen, it will, forever and ever, amen.

I approach every situation in life with very low expectations. This way, when someting mildly good happens, you're always very pleasantly surprised. Try it sometime, you'll like it!

Guys who love fucking swinger women but who then settle down with 'nice' girls just don't get it. They are just using swingers for cheap and easy sex instead of putting the work into meeting girls at singles' bars.

I can't imagine even having a beer with a "nice" girl, much less settling down with one. If you want to catch a fish, you have to go to where the fish are. You have a high probability of meeting a swinging single girl if you hang out with other people who think and act the same as you do. You probably won't have much luck running into what you're looking for in Sunday School, or for that matter, the run-of-the-mill singles bar.

Finally, this is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be about all parties enjoying themselves, not buzzkill. I think when we start over-analyzing and score keeping about who "brought more to the table" than whom (in terms of women, wealth, power, fame, or any other metric) it injects a certain pettiness that detracts from everyone's enjoyment. Personally, I've never witnessed any of the boorish behavior or cheating husband trickery that's discussed here, because I don't surround myself with those types of people - they wouldn't even get past the door.

Does it disturb me that some men who made vows and gave oaths use this community to subvert them and try to convince themselves and others that it's perfectly OK to betray trust and confidences? Of course it does. Does it bother me that there's a general perception of single males as drooling idiots running about with their pants around their ankles doing their best "Quest for Fire" imitation? Sure does. Do I need to pile on and call them names because they make my life more difficult? Nope. Life's too short, and my time is too precious to me to reiterate to you what you already know. It takes a lot of energy to resent someone. It takes even more to resent an entire group of people. Remember that.

Peace and be well...

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by uberkraker
If you want to catch a fish, you have to go to where the fish are. You have a high probability of meeting a swinging single girl if you hang out with other people who think and act the same as you do.

Well now see that's an attitude that I have a lot of respect for. That's how I always looked at things whenever I was single and my efforts were always rewarded in the end with kinky girls. If you can convince swinging couples that you're for real and have what it takes then you're going to end up getting introduced to some of your own kinky girls. You're putting in the sort of ground work that entitles you to an invitation to the party. You're exactly the sort of guy who we look for but can never seem to find. An attitude like that is far more valuable to a swinging couple than good looks or a giant schlong.

...when we start over-analyzing and score keeping about who "brought more to the table" than whom ... it injects a certain pettiness that detracts from everyone's enjoyment.

Well no, it detracts from the enjoyment of the guys who show up without bringing anything to the table. Yes, though, I understand your point. Your opinion might shift some day when you're fighting off the hoardes of single guys who aren't interested in finding dates of their own but who still want to fuck your wife.

Personally, I've never witnessed any of the boorish behavior or cheating husband trickery that's discussed here, because I don't surround myself with those types of people - they wouldn't even get past the door.

You don't encounter that sort of behavior because you don't have a wife that they all want to fuck. Post photos of yourself and your hot girlfriend or wife on a swingers' personals site and you will immediately understand why people get so irritated. There is a reason why so many swingers' profiles say "NO SINGLE MALES!!!" in huge letters. Guys write anyway, they just don't care. They send photos of their dicks, they sign up as a couple on web sites with a "block single males" feature, the variants on poor behavior are just endless.

It takes a lot of energy to resent someone. It takes even more to resent an entire group of people. Remember that.

Wise words to live by. I admire your attitude. I also feel sorry both for you and for couples like us who look for guys like you, because the signal to noise ratio is just so low. There are so many guys running around misbehaving that you're missing out on all kinds of great opportunities because you get associated with them.

For the record though, I don't resent single swinger guys. On the contrary, I seek them out intentionally. I spend more effort looking for available single guys for threesomes for us than I do looking for girls for me to fuck. Finding girls is much easier. What this thread is about is my resentment for cheating husbands who swing or who try to swing behind their wives' backs. In particular this thread is about my resentment for the ones who want to fuck my wife specifically.

[darling]

I want to commend the participants in this discussion for their eloquent writing and thoughtful wording. Well done!!

[BradAndJanet]

Originally posted by darling
I want to commend the participants in this discussion for their eloquent writing and thoughtful wording. Well done!!

I'll second that. It's one of the most interesting threads we've had in quite a while. I wish I had something to add, but you all have it pretty well covered. Thanks!

-B

[uberkraker]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe

You don't encounter that sort of behavior because you don't have a wife that they all want to fuck. Post photos of yourself and your hot girlfriend or wife on a swingers' personals site and you will immediately understand why people get so irritated. There is a reason why so many swingers' profiles say "NO SINGLE MALES!!!" in huge letters. Guys write anyway, they just don't care. They send photos of their dicks, they sign up as a couple on web sites with a "block single males" feature, the variants on poor behavior are just endless.

Heh... Well, touche' - and funny as hell, I might add.

But seriously, aren't you setting yourself up for this just a bit. I mean, this is the Big Bad Internet after all. Just what exactly did you think was going to happen? If you don't want a mailbox full of cock, don't put yourself in positions where it's likely you'll end up with a mailbox full of cock. Seems pretty simple to me. Your complaint can be compared to that of a 60 yo woman driving 55 mph on I-95 "but officer, everyone around me is going 80!"

Try this (and I'm only half kidding): Edit your ad to reflect the following - "Wanted: Single male who is hip to the swinger lifestyle and all that it involves to go out and have beers and shoot pool with the male half of a swinger couple. Afterward, we'll go and have a glass of good scotch and smoke cigars, and you can bitch to me about how hard it is to be a single male in the "lifestyle," and I'll complain to you about how many e-mails we get from cheating husbands."

Of course, I'm being factious but you get the idea..... but I do guarantee that it would stop the flood of cock pictures to your inbox...

[TeamSoBe]

Somehow I really think that it would just encourage more cock shots. If you somehow got the impression that I'm trying to accomplish something with this thread then I must have not been very clear about my intent. I'm just bitching, that's all. Yes, I walked into the situation that leaves me dealing with cock shots in my inbox every day. I'm aware that I brought that on myself, and the reward is worth it in the long run.

Speaking of predictably bringing it on themselves, though, click on the "Bootsie" and "Rkingston" links in the original message to see what I was bitching about. I wasn't whining about single guys, I was whining about "single" guys. The ones who irritate me specifically are the ones who vehemently defend themselves around here, rationalizing why it's okay for them to come after my wife while their own wives are at home with no sex drive because they are still breast feeding or whatever.

Cheating is an ugly thing, but it happens, part of life. Taking a big stinky shit is ugly and that happens too, part of life. The thing that's distasteful is taking a big smelly shit in public and then running around going "LOOK, I JUST TOOK A BIG STINKY SHIT!!" If a guy is going to cheat on his wife while she's at work and he's supposed to be caring for his baby daughter then he really should have the decency to be ashamed of the whole thing and not brag about it in public to total strangers. That's just my opinion though, there are at least a few people who disagree with me.

Loudly rationalizing why it's acceptable to take a big stinky shit in public is just inevitably going to lead to a bunch of people bitching about it. Perhaps somebody will be so personally offended that they will come forward with a narrow list of specific reasons why it is not acceptable to take a big stinky shit in public. Just what exactly did they think was going to happen, did they think that we were all going to stop and listen to their thoughtful arguments, change our minds, and then invite them to come and take big stinky shits in our living rooms?

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
Perhaps somebody will be so personally offended that they will come forward with a narrow list of specific reasons why it is not acceptable to take a big stinky shit in public.

My narrow list:

1.) Discretion - A must in this lifestyle
2.) Deceit - Never stick your foot in your mouth, it may wind up in your ass along with a few other feet. (I've been told that is very uncomfortable...I wouldn't know)

Mrs. O

[4sum]

TeamSoBe

I suppose what it comes down to in the end is personal integrity. I think we've all been around long enough to realize that honesty has little to do with marital status. I think the fundamental issue here is that when we play with someone, it is a reasonable expectation on our part that the other people are as they represent themselves to be, and act as they say they will. When someone starts out fundamentally misrepresenting themselves, it's bad. That's pretty obvious to you and I, and most other relatively sane, ethical people. But to someone who's life agenda has subbordinated everything else just to getting laid...well, you get the idea. To these people, everything that isn't their own personal gratification is incidental. Including respect for the very people supplying that gratification.

I'm not limiting this to Single Males, either. But the couple where one spouse has dragged the other unwillingly along, or people who intentionally promulgate mis-information about anything from sexual preference to weight, age or a plethora of other demographics.

Though you started this thread just to gripe, it has taken some pretty interesting side trips. Probably because what you're mostly talking about is the expectation of integrity. We expect people to have a similar degree of integrity to our own. When they don't the result can be anything from exasperation to physical danger.

[JustAskJulie]

It's nice to see that we can have a conversation on a topic like this without it turning into a flame war. Uberkraker, welcome to the board, I personally would like to hear from more single guys with YOUR attitude. I'm sure that with the topics we've had of late we've scared quite a few from posting.... but I think that if you've read through this board it's very apparant what qualities are and are not acceptable from single males by the people who are on this board... and hopefully it's the ones who don't possess the acceptable qualities that we have scared away.

[rebelnangel]

i totally agree with you.i like when guys have the opinions like that.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by 4sum

TeamSoBe

I suppose what it comes down to in the end is personal integrity. I think we've all been around long enough to realize that honesty has little to do with marital status. I think the fundamental issue here is that when we play with someone, it is a reasonable expectation on our part that the other people are as they represent themselves to be, and act as they say they will. When someone starts out fundamentally misrepresenting themselves, it's bad. That's pretty obvious to you and I, and most other relatively sane, ethical people. But to someone who's life agenda has subbordinated everything else just to getting laid...well, you get the idea. To these people, everything that isn't their own personal gratification is incidental. Including respect for the very people supplying that gratification.

I'm not limiting this to Single Males, either. But the couple where one spouse has dragged the other unwillingly along, or people who intentionally promulgate mis-information about anything from sexual preference to weight, age or a plethora of other demographics.

Though you started this thread just to gripe, it has taken some pretty interesting side trips. Probably because what you're mostly talking about is the expectation of integrity. We expect people to have a similar degree of integrity to our own. When they don't the result can be anything from exasperation to physical danger.

I agree. If I may add up some other reason (that I already told in other posts), it has to do with the integrity expectations, but not only from the people we choose to play with, even more important, from ourselves.

When we agree to play with a cheater (IF we do agree, of course), we'd be endorsing and justifying an attitude that, if we were sharing it, it wouldn't allowed us to start swinging in the first place without hurting our feelings. Once you choose to be upfront and honest with your spouse, a requirement to swing, you commit yourself to stick to your choice. If you endorse the deceptive and dishonest attitude a husband have when cheating, you're making an statement that could apply to yourself later on: that the end justifies the means, that you too can be deceptive and dishonest given the case, in order to fulfill your personal desires, disregarding your spouse ones and his/her feelings.

So, it is also a matter of self integrity. One of the worst things you can do to people is to pushe them and make they do something going against his or her personal values (the utilamte example for this are when kids are forced to kill in a war). When a cheating husband request to be accepted, he isn't just asking us to "fuck our wives", he is asking us to betray our beliefs and everithing that was required to make it possible for us to swing.