Ultimatum: Let me sleep with another woman or I'm leaving

[mnsnen]

Its me again. Thanks again for all the replies. I told him last night I just couldn't do it. That I was making the wrong choice for saying he could sleep with other women. I just feel so lost. He has a problem. I do not feel like I can say goodbye because of that. I have a problem too. I am agoraphobic. For those of you who do not know what this means..... (for me, different for others) I have such severe panic attacks that I have days that I cannot leave the house. I must always be in control of where I am/ when I can leave. I cannot hold a job. The Mr. doesn't like this. Who would. But he looks past my problem and isn't going to leave me because of it. I do know that these problems play a very different role in a relationship, but how can I just say "well, okay, goodbye...have fun sleeping around."But getting on here has made me realize that this choice he is giving me is VERY unhealthy. I knew that deep down but I guess I get deluded by my feelings. The fact that he is really willing to throw everything away for sex with other women shows how big his problem really is. He asked me this morning if I wanted him to go get an apartment. I said no. I guess I am just trying to buy time. I want to get him help. I do think he will regret it if he leaves. I know he loves me and this family. But I also know that his problem is making this choice, not him. So I feel like if he goes his problem will only escalate at a fast rate. (Nothing holding him back at all) I don't want that for him. No matter what happens with us, I will always care deeply and want the best for him. I want him to be a role model to our children. He says that if he goes he can still be a good father, but I question that. If he goes and has no one or nothing to keep him from screwing everything that winks at him he will just get worse of catch something. If he gets worse it will have to eventually change who he is even as a parent.
This all also makes me wonder if swinging would be unhealthy for him also. If he was to stay, I became comfortable with swinging, would this only be like giving a heroin addict more drugs?????
GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! Why didn't I become a therapist! lol
So, I feel he NEEDS help. With me or not, he needs help. I would say even more so if he isn't with me. What steps should I take to let him know that there are people out there that really can help. He has refused help b/c he thinks its pointless. He gets on these "highs". He is on one know. Thats why he gave me this choice. I think this high will pass. Don't get me wrong, I know he will still have a problem. But, how do I get him to stay long enough to pass the high and get help. I CAN NOT just let him go. I can't watch him ruin his life. Mental problems can always get much worse. What if I let him go and 7 years from now he is so bad that he ends up raping someone? What if he catches AIDS? And I know he won't be happy. He says I deserve better. That he is tired of hurting me. But I chose him. Better or worse, till death do us part. I just can't give up on him. I still love him and he still loves me. You don't quit in that situation. Many areas of our relationship are very healthy. Just not this one. This is about it. I know its a BIG issue. But its pretty much the only one. So I guess I will put it this way.
----- He has a problem. An addiction. Lets say your spouse had an addiction. Drugs, alcohol, whatever. Would you let them go to watch them get worse? Am I only hurting myself and my family for trying to help him when he doesn't want it??????
Thanks again to everyone. This place is the BEST to vent!!!!!!!!!

[PrairieFire]

I think he was very honest to tell you how he feels. Not everyone is set up to have sex with only one person in their lifetime. He loves you but wants to have sex with others.

You are a "good" girl that doesn't want to play but understands that he might.

I have an open relationship so I have an understanding of how you can have sex with others without being present and the only way it works for us is for complete honesty about any hookups.

He needs to:
1. Tell you when he is going to hook up.
2. Tell you about the encounter (it may make you jealous at first, but if you understand it as a fun life story it may increase your enjoyment.)
3. Calls you after it happened so you don't have to worry about where he is.
4. Makes sure he dates you also throughout to keep your communication lines open.
5. play safe.

It can work but you need to understand your jealousy and insecurities first. Coming home to you as a self confident life partner will keep your relationship going. If you are hounded by your own issues it will break up the marriage.

Good luck!

[Mrs.PaganLovers]

Ok, let me first say, that you can't help him. As with any addiction, the person with the addiction has to make the decision that they want help, and so far it doesn't sound like he wants to change anything about himself. There are 12 step programs for sex addicts, look in your local yellow pages for 12 step programs, if he is interested, you can give him the information.

Now, on to you, there are also programs out there for those that live with people that have addictions, again call the phone #'s and ask for help for yourself.
Some people really have to lose everything before they make a decision to try to get help. At this time you will be enabling him, if you go along with him, and allow him to make decisions for you that you don't feel are right for you.
What you are proposing by going along with swinging, knowing it isn't what you want, isn't swinging. You are being drug into it against your will to hold on to a man. In my case, my husband and I have a fantastic life together, loving, beautiful, and our sex life together is the best I have ever had! Swinging enhances our sex life, it doesn't fix it.
Sometimes people go into programs to fix themselves so they can get their SO back, and when they get into the program and start getting mentally healthy, they realize what a messed up relationship they had and they don't want it back. They can then move on to someone that can really love them for what and who they are without the drama, and ultimatiums.

I am glad you came by for help, but I truly hope you will get help for yourself first. Please drag out your phone book and look up your local 12 step programs.

Blessings
Mrs. PL

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by Mrs.PaganLovers

What you are proposing by going along with swinging, knowing it isn't what you want, isn't swinging. You are being drug into it against your will to hold on to a man.

Original poster,

There are couples like this in swinging. Couples such as those of us posting to you, we try to have radar for this situation to avoid couples like this. It only ends badly, for everyone. When women reluctantly join a husband for swinging, and it's something they really wish they didn't have to do - they'd much rather just have their husband's attention and be monogamous - swinging with other people is disastrous. If I knew where to find the links, I'd show you many stories like this that end BADLY. They're scattered throughout this board and other places on the 'net. The disaster stories are usually written not by the couple in your shoes, but by the couple that ended up behind closed doors with them and had the misfortune of seeing the drama unravel....a woman sitting there looking crushed and stricken, as she watches her husband fuck another woman like mad (ignoring his wife's distress), crying, hiding in the bathroom until it's over, and more. Or maybe the reluctant wife is dutifully enduring and tolerating the swap, as if it's a human sacrifice - not enjoying it. Imagine being in the other couple's shoes.

Swinging is for couples with very strong and stable, open and honest relationships. It's for couples in which BOTH partners truly want and desire it. Most importantly, these couples want and desire the happiness of their partner, and wouldn't do anything that their beloved partner wasn't 100% comfortable and happy with. Cheaters are not open and honest people - they're willing and able to lie to their spouse and cover up what they do (he's cheated on you) - causing you much pain - putting his immediate pleasures above your needs and your happiness. It's only with a very deep, sure, solid trust between two people that you can proceed successfully into this. And even as you proceed, you need lots of open and honest communication every step along the way with swinging.

Whatever you choose in the future - Hugs and best wishes to you!

[mnsnen]

Well, good news to all! I called him earlier and told him that I ordered him a book. That no matter what happens between us, I feel like he needs help. He agreed to read it. He even mentioned that us having so much sex latley is making him worse. To me, that says alot. He wants me to know that us having sex twice a day is hurting, not helping.
I had him read some of the posts on here last night. He was very open minded and agreed with somethings. Maybe it's opening his eyes that he is making a very bad choice by giving me an ultimatum. (that he is making decisions based on the compulsion of a problem)
I am going to have him read some more of the posts today, so if anyone has anything to say to him (opinions/advice) please do so. Maybe he will post some of his own thougts himself.
I also want to add that my personal intrest in swinging isn't "because" of him.
I know that for something like that to work it would have to be in a relationship that was very strong and open.
I had never thought of it before him. But that doensn't mean its out of pressure from him. We married when I was 20 and I just hadn't had much of a sex life before him. He was the 1st one that I ever really got into sex with. He is the 1st that I role played with, used toys with, the 1st to really ever get me turned on. I was just young and hadn't experienced much before him.
I had never even heard of swinging before him. I led a very sheltered life. I had (and still do) beliefs based on what I feel is right or wrong for me. When I was 1st introduced to the idea of people swinging I thought, (THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!!) Mind you, before Mr.MNSNEN I had never even seen porn more than 2 times and wasn't comfortable with it. Now I love to put a little porn on while we are fooling around sometimes. Its not because he pressured me into doing it. I just realized that just because my dad says "thats bad" doesn't really mean it is. I guess I am just saying that I wouldn't do anything that I wasn't comfortable doing. I am not saying I would ever be comfortable swinging, I don't know, but I wouldn't venture into it just to try and save my relationship. I would never do it unless I was with someone that I had complete trust and wonderful communication with.
I know I sound confused a lot right now, thats because I am. But I think people got the wrong idea about my thoughts and reasons for being somewhat interested in swinging.
I wanted to clarify that its not about trying to keep him.
Anyway, I think he may be willing to try and get a little help. I think his biggest obstacle will be finding it in himself to say he doesn't want to feel that way anymore. He has taken a large step in admitting he needs help. He just said it feels so good to him. That when he sees someone he wants-that he FEELS it and he likes that feeling. Just like a drug addict. It feels good to them thinking they may get another line. So send some luck his way!
hugs and kisses to everyone here. I really respect everyones opinions and input so much and appreciate everything!!!!!!!!!!

[EvilMJ]

I think it is great that you are able to talk.

Everyone else has covered what I thought.

Swinging is never going to fix a relationship, if there is not a strong foundation of love, trust, communication and willingness on both parts to participte, then everything is going to fall apart very quickly. Before anyone should enter into the swinging lifestyle they need to make sure that their relationship is strong. So even if you are thinking about it for the right reasons, you have to deal with the problems first. If I were in your posision I would forget about swinging and focus on if you want to save your relationship, and if you do, how to go about doing that.

I hope things work out for you.

[twobears]

I am sorry that you are in this position,based on the fact you have children I know you are working hard to save the marriage. I would work on me,read the information on this board,try to change your outlook on the lifestyle. I would try to go into the lifestyle,slowly, solf swing. To be happy in the lifestyle you must have a good marriage you do not,you will need his emotional support,the long talks that need to be honest(not sure he can or wants too)A lot of the lifestyle is the togetherness,your love for each other and the enjoyment of being in it together. His whole out look on life and the (need) for sex with others,we take part in it to enjoy each other's pleasure. It was hard for me to over come the old out look toward this lifestyle,but I wanted to change because that was the only way my husband would agree to do the three. It took me a year of talking,crying, and meeting couples for solf-swing,before I was able to take hold of the lifestyle and enjoy like I was suppose. There are still times that I get a knot in my brain,we talk about whatever I am feeling or up tight about and it goes away. You will need your husband's love and support to enjoy this lifestyle and an open marriage would be hell for you. For any rules leave the women at work off of the list, you do the interviewing and chooseing the women,try a FMF 3som and see how he treats you during this,oh by the way in a FMF the extra female is not the center of attention but you the wife is the way I feel,all are pleasured.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by mnsnen

The fact that he is really willing to throw everything away for sex with other women shows how big his problem really is.

This sums it up nicely.

I can appreciate what you are saying about your feelings for your husband. He's someone you give love to, not someone you are looking for love from.

Cheating is a horribly destructive thing. It shreds our trust in one another, it breaks hearts, and it does a thorough job of destroying one's own sense of self-worth. No wonder he keeps telling you you're better off without him...because you know what?...the sad truth is that he's right. He is not proving himself to be worthy of the kind of love you are trying to give him. This kind of harsh reality is something that, once realized, will either destroy him or give him a place to start from, to move as far away from that negativity as possible. I think perhaps it does a bit of both. They say once a cheater always a cheater, but it's not true. It's just rare to see one change, because the only way for them to truly change is to realize exactly what their behaviour has done: it has defined them as unworthy people, and they have done it to themselves. They are no one's victim. They have beaten and raped their own selves, and have no one else to blame for it.

It's much easier for your husband to continue the status quo, simply accepting that he's a bad person, and as such, does not expect any better of himself. He feels that he's lower than dogshit on your shoe, and always will be. So why bother trying to be good? It's just so much easier to go on being his bad self. And why not? Depression is very easy.

In retrospect, I take back what I said about looking into swinging. Don't even go near it right now. Step 1: Mr. mnsnen needs to get himself together. Step 2: Get your relationship together. Step 3: Start thinking about swinging. I don't envy you two. You have your work cut out for you.

[deanncat]

Yes it sounds like a ultimatum,
my husband and I have been talking about swinging the past 3months and thats the key word, talking together about it, very open and lots of conversations about it, all of it is together even the swingers board is a together thing, no ultimatums, and if one of us feels like we don't want to fallow through, i think that would be it, the swinging conversation would stop, I think it take together time and that is what will make the swinging fun and exciting and your relationship closer.

[MoonLightKiss]

I do not know if he suffers from sexual addiction or not, I am neither a doctor nor a therapist so I cannot make that distinction so I am going to cover both bases, and since you say he is going to be reading these posts, I am going to direct the comments to him.

Mr. If you are a sex addict. GET HELP. An addiction to sex is like any other addiction. If you want to destroy your marraige, your wifes love, and the respect of your children, then please feel free to continue. But if you love them, AND love yourself, find a counselor, someone that specializes in sex addiction, and hie yourself off to them ASAP. Beating an addiction is NEVER easy, I can personally attest to that. But it is possible if you want it enough.

If you are just being selfish. STOP. Either you love your wife or you don't. If you do, find a marraige counselor willing to work with you each individually and as a couple. Find the root of the problem as to why you want to have sex with others and work it out. If you don't want to be with her anymore and this is your way of pushing her away cause you want to have sex with others, then for crying out loud just tell her and leave. Don't make up excuses that are going to have her blaming herself. A clean break now hurts, but it hurts much less than unanswered questions with a nasty break.

To the Mrs. If he is an addict, you need to get into counseling as well. Find out why you are enabling him and find ways to stop doing it. This will also help him in his counseling. It probably would not hurt to find out why you were willing to help him continue with his addiction.

If he is selfish and not an addict. Go to counseling anyway. Find out why you were willing to put up with it. This hints of self esteem issues which you probably need to work on. Then find a counselor for you both.

He has a problem. An addiction. Lets say your spouse had an addiction. Drugs, alcohol, whatever. Would you let them go to watch them get worse? Am I only hurting myself and my family for trying to help him when he doesn't want it??????

In answer to this question. Yes, I would. Let me explain why though. I would do it, even though I love my spouse because my first responsibility is to my children. How good of a parent am I, if I constantly enable an addict? My children get to watch me be miserable, stressed out, and watch their father harm himself.

Also, what kind of wife would I be if I enabled his addiction? I would try to get him help. However, if that help was refused, rather than make my entire family miserable, I would remove the problem. If he chose to get help after being put out, I would help him in anyway possible and try to work our marraige out. If our marraige was too far gone to be worked out, then out of love for my children, I would still help him. But if he just flat out refused to fix the problem, no matter how much I loved him, he would be gone til the problem got fixed. Because I ultimately realize that
1. I cannot force him to accept help, no matter how much I want him to.
2. I cannot fix the problem for him.
3. I cannot make excuses for him and enable his addiction and still have a happy home. Everyones misery is not worth his addiction.

[hotingreenville]

Wow you are a better women than me. I am in a relationship where only the woman plays with other women. We consider ourselves soft swap. We will have sex together infront of others though. I would never do anything without my husband being around. He has to approve of everything I do otherwise it doesn't happen. He also has to approve of who I am with. If he doesn't like the other girl it is not going to work. If he ever came to me and told me he didn't want me to participate anymore than I would respect that and stop. Relationships are hard and you have to both be on the same page when swinging. It could ruin a good relationship. It sounds like you are a strong women and have been through alot. I hope that you can resolve your issues but if you don't feel comfortable with what is going on you should get out. I myself don't see how a marriage or a relationship could work with one swinging (or cheating) and the other not being involved in anyway. Stick to you guns and don't let anyone just mow you down. I am here for ya.

[menher1559]

I've been reading on this post for several days now and as usual, when something peaks my interest, I simply cannot keep my mouth shut.....

One of the post i read from somebody...(i've been so enthralled in the content, I can't remember who posted it) said something to the effect of the be sure you can love the person starring back at you in the mirror.

This above and beyond all is the secret key to this relationship. In order to love others, you must love yourself. In order to care for others, you must care for yourself. If you honestly feel in your heart you can make this relationship work under it's current condition, then by all means put yourself into it.

If you honestly believe in your heart that there is no way it can work and you will constantly have these fears, then it's time to change it. You are in control, not your husband. You have the same opportunities as he.

You can choose to have sexual relations outside the confines of your marriage; you can choose to end your marriage; you can choose to continue the life you are living. ALL THOSE DECISIONS ARE YOURS, and the folks here on this board have offered thier heartfelt advice.

The fortunate thing from all of this is that YOU ARE IN CONTROL AND YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT IS THE BEST AVENUE FOR YOU TO TAKE.

Best wishes to you and your husband and family.

"All's fair in love, war and kinky sex"

[daisy girl]

Your husband has some qualities that are indicative of an addictive behavior. Please consider counseling for yourself. A good counselor can help you reframe your situation and help you make decisions that are best for you. Only he can make the decision to change; you can't change him...no matter how hard you try. The hard truth is that many women believe that they can change others and waste many years trying. Good luck!

[Mr. Truelove]

Back when I first got married to Mrs. Truelove, our church required us to see a marriage counselor. At the time they were requiring it of all the couples that wanted to be married in that church. We went along with it very reluctantly at the time because we felt, like most people that we had a strong grasp on our marriage and that it wasn't needed. It was four sessions long for about an hour each.

I was amazed. The counselling was actually quite enjoyable. It might just have been our counselor, but the guy really did well at showing us some key points in building a strong foundation for our marriage.

So, if someone I knew was thinking of counselling as an option, I would encourage them to do so. It won't hurt, and if you go into it with an open mind, you might learn a little about marriage and each other as well.

Mr. Truelove