Do you play with Married Males without their partners?

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Amanda69

I am seeing this come up more and more. Married males playing without their partners for various reasons.

Is there any good reason that you would say yes to this situation? Do you care or if you were interested would it matter that he is playing without his partner? Do you check with the other partner for permission? Or do you believe the guy who says his wife is okay with this?

For us this is just too much drama. We say no to any involvement with any male or female playing in the lifestyle without their partners. We are not interested in what kind of permission they may have or meeting up with the partner to hear about it....by the way partners who play separately are different we are talking about those whose partners are not involved in the lifestyle.

This is kind of a double-edged sword since we have only met one married guy playing single in the past couple of years and I do have permission from Mrs. WS to play solo if I feel I want to.

The one guy we did meet solo was in Salt Lake on business. He and his wife have a profile on Swing Lifestyle and Swingular and we chatted with her both on IM and on the phone before we met him. She was also interested in playing we me solo (they live about three hours away), but the opportunity has not presented itself yet (damnit!).

There are a couple women I can play with solo anytime I want to that are part are part of a swinging couple that we have both played with.

The difference here? In both of these circumstances the person we are playing with are part of a swinger couple and we have either played with, or know the spouse.

We would not play with a single (male or female) that did not meet the above criteria.

Mr. WS

[Petercockright]

I've been on both sides of this question as a couple and as a single. And quite frankly my dears I don't give a damn if the person male or female is married or not. I don't ask and I don't care how they decide to run their life. I just want them to focus on me or us. I don't care if their home life is wonderful or if it stinks... their life is theirs to manage.

I've been in this lifestyle for 20+ yrs, started and managed swing clubs, swinger groups and this topic is always being brought up. The morality police are always trying to push the idea that solos are always cheaters. Cheating is a 3 rd grade notion denoting someone else has ownership of anothers body. Why should anyone think they are charged with the responsiblity of judging how others choose to live their life.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Petercockright

I've been on both sides of this question as a couple and as a single. And quite frankly my dears I don't give a damn if the person male or female is married or not. I don't ask and I don't care how they decide to run their life. I just want them to focus on me or us. I don't care if their home life is wonderful or if it stinks... their life is theirs to manage.

I've been in this lifestyle for 20+ yrs, started and managed swing clubs, swinger groups and this topic is always being brought up. The morality police are always trying to push the idea that solos are always cheaters. Cheating is a 3 rd grade notion denoting someone else has ownership of anothers body. Why should anyone think they are charged with the responsiblity of judging how others choose to live their life.

We choose to live our lives by not playing with those who are 'cheating' on others. This isn't the morality police, I don't give a damn what you do with someone else, thats your issue, not mine, but don't expect us to change our views on the subject either. I hope you don't judge how we choose to live our life in this :rollseyes

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Petercockright

I've been on both sides of this question as a couple and as a single. And quite frankly my dears I don't give a damn if the person male or female is married or not. I don't ask and I don't care how they decide to run their life. I just want them to focus on me or us. I don't care if their home life is wonderful or if it stinks... their life is theirs to manage.

I've been in this lifestyle for 20+ yrs, started and managed swing clubs, swinger groups and this topic is always being brought up. The morality police are always trying to push the idea that solos are always cheaters. Cheating is a 3 rd grade notion denoting someone else has ownership of anothers body. Why should anyone think they are charged with the responsiblity of judging how others choose to live their life.

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Cheaters hurt the people they are cheating on. We won't help someone hurt someone else. Just because we are swingers doesn't mean we don't have ethics.

The last thing we need is to be drug into a divorce trial by a disgruntled spouse, have the disgruntled spouse harrassing us via phone because they found our number on their spouses cell biill or address book, or worse, to have them show-up on our doorstep toting a gun and theatening or actually doing harm to us and our family.

All that for a little sex we can get elsewhere without potential drama... I think not.

Mr. WS

[Dooode]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Cheaters hurt the people they are cheating on. We won't help someone hurt someone else. Just because we are swingers doesn't mean we don't have ethics.
Mr. WS

I feel the same way on this issue. If someone has a rotten marriage and either spouse want to cheat, that's their problem. But I am NOT going to contribute to the failure of a marriage, I don't care how hot they are. I like to think I have more respect for others than to believe my actions won't cause them further harm. To do otherwise is irresponsible. Period.

In the end, I still have to live with myself.

Personally, I have to question how I could trust a cheater or someone who condones cheating. I feel that anyone betraying another's trust or condoning the betrayal of another is not worthy of my trust. How could I play with such a person??

Morality Police? It's my morals, my life and my choice.

IMO, cheaters suck (and not in a good way).

[Amanda69]

Dito

I choose not to contribute to the misery of someone else or get involved in their drama's by sleeping with a partner who is sleeping with others without his spouses permision.

Clearly some people do care about other people and how their behavior effects them. I personally am proud of my empathy for others and will continue to not involve myself in any situation which could potentially cause pain to another through my actions.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Petercockright

I've been on both sides of this question as a couple and as a single. And quite frankly my dears I don't give a damn if the person male or female is married or not. I don't ask and I don't care how they decide to run their life. I just want them to focus on me or us. I don't care if their home life is wonderful or if it stinks... their life is theirs to manage.

I've been in this lifestyle for 20+ yrs, started and managed swing clubs, swinger groups and this topic is always being brought up. The morality police are always trying to push the idea that solos are always cheaters. Cheating is a 3 rd grade notion denoting someone else has ownership of anothers body. Why should anyone think they are charged with the responsiblity of judging how others choose to live their life.

This argument about the "morality police" has been used countless times on here, and likely elsewhere. And it never sells. It always seemed to me like some kind of attempt at vilifying the heeding of one's conscience. As if slapping some kind of derogatory label on my sense of right and wrong makes the moral negligence of others somehow accceptable. "If you can't be decent, bring others down to your level."

Peter, NO ONE said that solo players are all tarred with the same stick. Not all of them are cheaters, and if they aren't, then many of us have no problem playing with them. But because there ARE some who are disrespectful of their own spouses (which makes us doubt their ability to be honest and fair with complete strangers like us about silly little things like...oh...say STD's??), and because our time is valuable, we find that it's more time-efficient to simply avoid the headache and disappointment of trying to sort out the cheaters from the honest guys. It's nothing personal, it all comes down to time...which we have precious little of. And then again, we just don't like people who don't treat their spouses like adults; I'm not going to fuck someone I don't like as a person. If you choose to avoid feeling bad about enabling others to hurt their relationships by saying that cheating is a figment of our imagination (a silly 3rd grade notion), then I guess that's up to you. Do as you please, but don't expect others to just smile and say, "Gee, that's cool!"

[Hoot]

No, we do not. For the simple fact that i am a happily married woman & i always would like to be respected as such. Soooooooo to 'play' with a married man W/OUT his wifes' permission, to me, is disrespecting the wife. My hubby & I do not 'play' separately. (That is just one of our rules) And, if he went behind my back, and disrespected me with another, I would be very upset and feel betrayed. I would also update everyone to let you know when/where the funeral arrangements for each were going to be.....

This is just my opinion/feelings. Good to be able to be open and chit chat like we do here. Even for those that disagree with me & DO swing with married men/women, that is fine, it is your feeling(s) and i respect your thoughts/feelings. After all, who am i to judge??? nada.

Hoot

[Couple_N_Ark]

There was a similar discussion in May of 2004 in which we commented. I went back and cut and pasted my comment, since it still applies.

We were somewhat raked over the coals then for our views. I guess we'll see if the consensus has changed any.

Here is our exact reply..........

We enjoy meeting single men, and do so more often probably than meeting other couples.

Some may think this is extreme, but we do have one VERY HARD rule when meeting single men....and that is we must have their name, and home phone number. And be able to call them at various times to verify they are single. We let it be known up front that we will only meet single men, and that we will verify they are single, so it's not like we mislead anyone.

If someone tells us they're not listed in the phone book (it's probably their cell number), then we don't meet them. If for any reason we can't verify the information we don't meet them....it doesn't matter how handsome, buff or whatever the guy is. This also works as somewhat of a security measure also.

Unfortunately when going to an on premise club and "connecting" with a single male, you cannot always be so sure about them being truly single or not, but we do question them and try to get a feel about their honesty.

I know this is a bit off topic, but just to clarify something...we would also NOT MEET a married woman who is cheating on their spouse. If we never met another single lady again, we just would not do it if we knew they were married. Obviously we cannot use the same verification with a lady, but many times we do talk to ladies on the phone before meeting.

I was a single man for 12 yrs, and actually pretty successful at swinging as a single male. I think I had better luck with just the "general population" rather than with admitted swingers. There are alot of couples out there (on yahoo, AOL, MSN, etc) who have probably never heard of most swinger sites, and might never consider themselves to be swingers, but they still have that fantasy of having a 3some with another man.

[Dooode]

Originally Posted by Couple_N_Ark

I know this is a bit off topic, but just to clarify something...we would also NOT MEET a married woman who is cheating on their spouse. If we never met another single lady again, we just would not do it if we knew they were married.

I don't think it's THAT off-topic (not like going off on climbing Mt Everest or something).

I looked at my earlier reply and I realized that I came off pretty strongly. Fact is, I have gotten involved with married women before which ruined one marriage, broke up another's engagement, and put another's marriage through some hard times.

"Not playing with cheaters" is not some willy-nilly rule I made up for myself because it seemed like a good idea at the time. I came to realize that cheating and contributing to cheaters DOES ruin people's relationships. Caught or not, the betrayal of trust can be so deep that it has the potential to destroy people's lives.

It's been a long, long time since my part in these betrayals. If I came off too strong in my earlier reply, it's only to show my determination never to repeat the same mistakes ever again.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Dooode

Personally, I have to question how I could trust a cheater or someone who condones cheating. I feel that anyone betraying another's trust or condoning the betrayal of another is not worthy of my trust. How could I play with such a person??

Exactly. If they aren't trustworthy to begin with, how can you trust them not to betray you. "Hey Bob, come see this couple on Swing Lifestyle I played with last week!" "HOLY SHIT, ED, THAT'S MY NEIGHBORS!"

Mr. WS

[JP51]

We do, with couples whom we have had a long standing relationship. We will get into MFM or the FMF at times. I have been on the nice end of this when traveling and have recieved invites to "just stay with us" your in town for business and we can play. We have also invited the other guy to stay with us in the same way. Heck sometime is appears we just switch wife for a week., when we end up in each other city at the same time. Will have to say we have know them for 10 years or heck more...
So maybe that is diffrent?

[She_n_Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Petercockright

I've been on both sides of this question as a couple and as a single. And quite frankly my dears I don't give a damn if the person male or female is married or not. I don't ask and I don't care how they decide to run their life. I just want them to focus on me or us. I don't care if their home life is wonderful or if it stinks... their life is theirs to manage.

I've been in this lifestyle for 20+ yrs, started and managed swing clubs, swinger groups and this topic is always being brought up. The morality police are always trying to push the idea that solos are always cheaters. Cheating is a 3 rd grade notion denoting someone else has ownership of anothers body. Why should anyone think they are charged with the responsiblity of judging how others choose to live their life.

Your "experience" isn't important when stating your position. It sometimes can show you might have relevant knowledge (say a mechanic recommending a Toyota), but with no means to verify, it's easy to make up. I've met too many people who've worked a relatively simple job for 20 + years and still are incompetent. I've also met those with almost no experience who are exceptionally skilled. Twenty + years and you're a solo male involved in something that can only truly be a lifestyle for a committed couple? I say this because solo, you're just expanding your playing field for sex, as a couple you are putting much more on the line. If you started and managed swing clubs, what happened to them? You should be telling us about these fantastic clubs so those in the area can experience them first hand. Call me a cynic (probably not your first choice), but all your quoted experience hints at failure rather than success, at least in this "lifestyle".

To be fair you might be the Eric Clapton of swinging, an artist that defines the art. Just read the forums and you'll find many couples seeking encounters with single men or women. And you'll find the same couples making the distinction between single and cheating. Cheating has nothing to do with ownership. It has to do with respecting a committment. I've heard a few different marriage vows but have yet to hear "Love, honor and let you have sex with whomever, wherever and whenever because it's none of my damned business". If the partner knows and agrees, more power to both, but if the partner is kept in the dark, it's not much of a partnership.

The 3rd grade concept is "Morality Police", especially here. The people here offer advice and relevant experience. They express opinions and give suggestions. You'll rarely see this group totally condemn someone for their actions or beliefs. Sure, a few (mainly me) will say "Bad Dog" and rub someone's nose in their mess when we feel they've made and/or are compounding a serious error. Seldom is it about morality. It's the parent telling the child how not to get burned. If they get burned there are those here to treat it and help them learn from that mistake. If they don't get burned, they'll get kudos for their success against long odds.

And of course they'll get 800+ words of complete garbage from yours truly.