Met the male half of a couple with intentions for a FFM and now having feelings

[nympho]

Hi all,
I'm hoping you can help me out. I started out in the swinging scene as a single bi fem this year. One of the things I was really eager to try was a FFM. I got my feet wet doing other things but I was taking my time with organising the FFM because I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted (as an single bi fem it is really overwhelming - so much choice). So after a couple of months of meeting people and chatting people I had found one couple I had liked. Talked to him online a few times and both on the phone once. We agreed to meet to see if there was any chemistry. They had been in a relationshiip for four years at this point and had a small amount of swinging experience together.
Ok, so after we chatted on the phone I met him the next day for coffee - they both cool with that. There was instant chemistry--we are talking fairytale stuff...We did nothing only chat and as we were leaving he kissed me...and I immediately had feelings for him. He texts me immediately and says the same thing. Now, I am not a cheater - I have NEVER cheated on or with someone before. And my one rule has always been never ever play with someone who is attached and the partner hasn't ok'd the playing.
THis thing between me and this guy though was and is just scary -- movie crap really...anyways. Three days in we slept together. He told me a couple of days after that that he was in love with me and I was him (yes i know this sounds ridiculous). So he broke it off with his girlfriend right away.
We are now together (it has been less than three weeks since we met).
We are mad about each other and both of us are still interested in swinging. The problem is, I have always said that I don't think I could swing with someone I was in love with. I recognise that I have insecurities that could be potentially negative in such a situation.
HE wants to explore everything with me - couples, groups, MMF, FFM. Right now I am only comfortable with an MMF (he is bi so this is not completely selfish on my part -- in fact I have no desire to have sex with the other man in MMF).
I don't know what to do -- I love him, don't want to lose him, don't want to swing with him, don't want to swing without him and still want an FFM!!!!
Is this just nerves? Should I just plunge in? Or have he and I start with a couple? Or maybe I should just end it with him all together because maybe deep down inside the way we met will always prevent me from being comfortable swinging with other women and him.
I know that the lifestyle is totally about the exact opposite of what I've described but I can't help it!
Any advice or thoughts would be so greatly appreciated.

[nympho]

I should add, he says he never has sex...that he can only make love to a woman.......
and I think that's what worries me the most...

[Mr. Better Half]

Originally Posted by nympho

he says he never has sex...that he can only make love to a woman

Yes, and the check is in the mail and I won't come in your mouth. If he can't "have sex" but only "makes love", it sounds like he is a wrecking ball preparing to tear through the swinging community. Perhaps it is only semantics, but Better Half and I swing to have fun; we reserve our love for each other. No one touches that part of us. Personally, I don't want to get involved with someone that can't tell the difference between sex and love.

I suppose this is not your fault, but what are you thinking while "being together" with this guy? He throws away a four-year relationship to be with someone new that he now can't live without? There are medications that help with such conditions. I would get out of this situation now on my own terms, but you can always wait four years and maybe history will repeat itself and you can get out on his terms.

Perhaps I am being too harsh, but this is why we don't swing with single females.

[VegasLee]

I don't personally feel either of you have any business trying to swing at this point. You can not possibly trust each other after what the two of you have done. He does not have the right frame of mind to be swinging with others and you are just as much to blame as he is for breaking up the other relationship.

I know, you came here hoping we would feel sorry and lead you down some path. Sorry, not going to happen here.

Swinging is about sex for fun, not breaking up others relationships or being any part of that.

As soon as he finds someone that will do all the things he wants to do you are going to be part of his past also. Best to move on and find yourself, then maybe you can play in the swinging world as the single bi female you started out as.

Good luck.

[dinkydow4us]

I agree with Better Half. History has a way of repeating itself. If you hook up with a cheater, what do you end up with? A cheater! Run, run, now! D.D.

[intuition897]

nympho, Welcome to the board!

Originally Posted by nympho

We are mad about each other and both of us are still interested in swinging. The problem is, I have always said that I don't think I could swing with someone I was in love with. I recognise that I have insecurities that could be potentially negative in such a situation.

It should be just the opposite. Ideally, swinging should be an expression of the love and trust you have in one another.

Originally Posted by nympho

I don't know what to do -- I love him, don't want to lose him, don't want to swing with him, don't want to swing without him and still want an FFM!!!!
Is this just nerves? Should I just plunge in? Or have he and I start with a couple? Or maybe I should just end it with him all together because maybe deep down inside the way we met will always prevent me from being comfortable swinging with other women and him.
I know that the lifestyle is totally about the exact opposite of what I've described but I can't help it!
Any advice or thoughts would be so greatly appreciated.

I think you just summed it up, yourself. I don't like to advise couples to go their separate ways, but whether or not the feelings are deep and genuine - and I mean not just a really strong infatuation - is beside the point. If he's truly found his one and only in you, that makes him a habitual Love Junkie who's been blind-sided by the real deal. You might be perfect for one another under normal circumstances, but the way I see it, Mr. nympho has an addiction. I've actually read about this...and know people personally who suffer from it. There are such people as love addicts, who crave that bliss of fresh new love, the giddy high, the drama, the feeling of being loved and cared for...of being 'discovered' (as in "where have you been all my life?"). Their brains are actually a chemical cocktail of self-produced pleasure-inducing substances. When they start coming down off their high, when the object of their desire no longer gives them the buzz they crave, they start picking apart the relationship, picking fights, looking for reasons to leave. Finding another Mr. or Mrs. Right is a good excuse. After all, one must follow one's heart, right? Voila: serial monogamy.

When you say this:

I should add, he says he never has sex...that he can only make love to a woman.......
and I think that's what worries me the most...

it just sort of confirms it for me. This man is not a swinger. Polyamorous maybe, but definitely not swinger material. He still hasn't sorted out the difference between love and sex, which is essential to being able to define what makes your relationship with him unique when all else (like, sex) has become a level playing field. Without this separation, there is no reason to come home with you, because if the orgasm or romance with others is what he equates with love, there are others out there who will be able to do things as well or better sexually than you do for him. And this is why monogamy and love=sex just don't mix. I wish I could be more optimistic.

Well...bring Mr. 2plus1 to the board and have him post his side of things. I always end up putting my foot in my mouth when I only hear one side.

[nympho]

Thank you all for you comments and for the welcome by Intuition (by the way Intuition, I lived in Kingston for 7 years).
Perhaps I didn't make my post clear enough --I was more concerned with whether or not my reservations about swinging with this person where abnormal, something I could get over? Or am I totally not cut out for the lifestyle at all (despite the fact that I enjoyed it very much as a single)?
I was NOT looking for sympathy - contrary to what some may have thought. Nor was I looking for commentary on how wrong it was of me or irresponsible to hook up with this person in the first place. In fact, I find it a bit ironic that people who do not believe in monogamy still believe that emotional monogamy exists -- it doesn't. People fall in and out of love all the time-- reality is, we are not meant to spend the rest of our lives with one person and the sexual side of things is just one component of that.
I was just merely seeking your advice on whether I should swing - as the title of the original posts suggest.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
n.

[TNT]

Originally Posted by nympho

In fact, I find it a bit ironic that people who do not believe in monogamy still believe that emotional monogamy exists -- it doesn't. People fall in and out of love all the time-- reality is, we are not meant to spend the rest of our lives with one person and the sexual side of things is just one component of that.

People aren't meant to spend the rest of their lives with one person????? Really????

Well, I guess then Ted's grandparent's 60 year marriage, my grandparent's almost 50 year marriage (all are deceased now) and my parent's 40 year marriage are all a joke and they weren't suppose to do it. All were/are very, very happy marriages, based on love.

Hmmmm, guess my 24 year marriage is a joke as well. :rollseyes

Yes, emotional monogamy DOES EXIST....those of us who can separate emotional monogamy from sexual monogamy are the ones that are able to have a successful swinging life.

IMO...no, you should not be swinging with this man as neither of you know the difference between love and just sex.


Teresa

[nympho]

Teresa,

point takeen - yes you are right -- there are those who believe in emotional monogamy just like there are those who believe in sexual monogamy.
I didn't mean to cause offense.

I am just stating that I don't believe in lifetime committment of any sort - I feel it is unnatural.

n.

[intuition897]

Small world, eh? lol

nympho, in our way, we were addressing the original question. Are your concerns justified? I'd say they are. Should you swing with this guy? Are you suited to this lifestyle? No. In our opinion, you're not. Given the information you've shared with us? Hypothetically speaking, if Mr. intuition and I had to choose whether or not to play with you and Mr. nympho, whe'd have to decline. Why? For several reasons. While two people who are just friends swinging together would seem natural to us, it becomes a red-flag situation when you feel that you are more than just friends (the 'just-like-the-movies' relationship you describe), yet you do not believe in lifelong emotional committment. This smells like drama just looking for a place to happen. Also, although it doesn't really affect us, it makes us wonder how much our own marriage is respected when our partners feel this way? It just doesn't click with us. And specifically, Mr. nympho's tendencies would be a turn-off for us.

[sereneiders]

Nympho.

I believe you have two big issues to deal with: he doesn't have sex, just makes love... then the same would happen with anyone else you'd meet swinging. Besides, you knew him in an scenario where he was supposedly commited with someone else, and it took just a meeting and one sexual encounter (when he made love with you) for him to breack such a commitment.

I am not making a moral judgment about any of you two. It's true, people may fall in love, you two may be meant to each other and just meet in this odd scenario, but since you cannot be in his ex shoes as to know her perception about the former relationship regarding this issue, you're walking over a very thin line here. With just 3 weeks there's no way for you to ensure the same wouldn't happen to you, that you look for someone to swing (for you to have sex with, for him to make love with) just to find out he moved on right afterwards. If you feel you can ensure this, well.. you really fell in love to the point of stop thinking. It would take a long time for a couple who treasure their commitments (who want to spend if not all the life, at least a long time togheter, or even a short time but worth to be lived) to get rid of something like this begining, and get to trust each other (beyond what their hearts tells them).

Moreover when you're the one saying "I wont swing with someone I'am in love with". This pertains to your own insecurities, true... but the issues I just pointed out would feed these insecurities of you. After all, it is the fear of losing your love what holds you from swinging.

Given the case I have two opposite advices to give to you:

1) Do not play. Deal with these issues first, strenghten your relationship, and once you get to know each other, if you keep loving each other, and if you feel safe enough, start thinking of swinging again.

2) Do play. If he's up to fall in love with someone just because "he made love with him/her", then it'd be better for you to find this sooner than later. If you both swing and he remains by your side, then you'd loose some of the uncertanities these issues give to you today. If he doesn't and fall in love with someone else, you'd know for sure you fell in love with the wrong guy, and the pain you'll get today would be less than the pain you'd get from finding out this in, let say, a couple of years (after following my advice #1).


So the questions would be... are you:
a trainer of ravens?
an ostrich?
a cientist?
a kamikaze?

I gess what you'll end up doing would depend on your choice.

[Mr. Better Half]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Given the case I have two opposite advices to give to you:

1) Do not play. Deal with these issues first, strenghten your relationship, and once you get to know each other, if you keep loving each other, and if you feel safe enough, start thinking of swinging again.

2) Do play. If he's up to fall in love with someone just because "he made love with him/her", then it'd be better for you to find this sooner than later.

Hi, sereneiders!

I normally agree with everything you say but I have to disagree here. Option number 2 has a very high probability of hurting other people besides this couple. IMO, this couple is going to self-destruct, and it would be unfortunate if they did so while involved with responsible swingers that really love each other and are considerate of others.

But then, I have been accused of being overly harsh on some topics...

[Mike and Jan]

Hey? Didn't you say you'd only been together for three weeks?

Now I love the group experiences I've enjoyed in my life but I remember, well, the first few weeks and months with my lover of 34 years.

Those are probably some of the only months, actually I think it was the whole first year, that I didn't even look at other women. I just couldn't get enough of her.

If you two are that focused on your future swinging right now, perhaps you're not really in love? Just a thought.

[Darkane]

abort! bail out! run away!

ok, seriously, no offense, but does this even need answering?

Guy can't seperate love and sex? Ummm, yeah, that's gonna cause a problem.

My wife and I were all about just us for the first few years of our relationship, we never even thought about anyone else, eventhough we'd both been swingers before we met. The only reason we even thought of swinging again is because my wife got bi-curious and wanted to explore it, and we're both glad she did. From there we kept on exploring.

But THREE WEEKS????? into your "relationship" and you guys want to do "everything" together??? Seriously, why not build the relationship you have before you start branching out???? Hell, the guy was a cheater to start with, that's how you got him! Now he wants to basically have you as a stand-by for when he's not boning other people!

Wow. Just wow.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Mr. Better Half

Hi, sereneiders!

I normally agree with everything you say but I have to disagree here. Option number 2 has a very high probability of hurting other people besides this couple. IMO, this couple is going to self-destruct, and it would be unfortunate if they did so while involved with responsible swingers that really love each other and are considerate of others.

But then, I have been accused of being overly harsh on some topics...

I agree, but this has nothing to do with the options she may choose. The guy already hurt his former relationship, wheter that one knows or doesn't know. And it seems to me there are no concerns nor regrets regarding that woman, if I were in her place, I'd preffer to be killed by a gun shot, than by loosing all my blood from an permanently open wound.

In the other hand, it's ilusory to believe you can blame someone else, a third one, for an unsuccesfull relationship or a breaking. Couples break because of things belonging exclusivelly to their relationship. This guy "fell in love" with another women, yes, but he had to be up to accept those feelings and give these new feelings for a third one more value than his current relationship, so the "fell in love" thing, even the third one, is merely a symptom of a problem they already had. Giving such a problem, there would be any other symptom sooner or later, should this guy were going on with the actual relationship.