Swinger Advice on Good Old-Fashioned Cheating

[Uomo]

My wife and I have pretty much concluded that the lifestyle is not going to work out for us. My wife just likes to watch ... which pretty much makes me (for lifestyle purposes) ... a married single guy. It just isn't going to work.

So I'm going to go about the lifestyle the good old fashioned way: I'm heading out onto the single scene ... or seeking out an extamarital affair.

You have all given me such good advice in the past. So indulge me this one last favor:

Assuming I want to strike up a no-strings sexual relationship with an attractive young woman (married, single or otherwise) ... how would you recommend I go about it?

What type of woman might be interested in such a relationship?

A little about me: I am in my early thirties, fit, highly-attractive, accomplished, PhD. education, very sensual & romantic. I control my schedule but I don't come into much day-to-day contact with people at work. The only woman I've been intimate with is my wife (of 10+ years). My wife and I are happily married and ... she reluctantly understands why I need to do this. Ive never been intimate with someone my own age (think: Aston/Demi). My wife has been married before and has dated.

From what I can tell: most single women are only seem interested a guy if they think it might lead to a long-term relationships ... and mariied women, I haven't quite figured out yet. Just casual observations (and I can be wrong). Should I pursue married women ... or single women? College students ... or working women? Should I tell women the truth about my marital status and intentions ... or indulge myself a little white lie here and there to achieve my ends? Nightclubs ... or coffee shops?

Any advice? I'm very curious on what those in the lifestyle might suggest.

[Vespertine]

You should be 100% up front and honest with whomever you meet about your circumstances.

I don't understand your need to do this if your wife is "reluctant". Sounds pretty damned selfish to me.

It's not her fault that you didn't sow your oats before you married her. It's also not her fault that you haven't been with a woman who's closer to your age. I really hope, for her sake, that you didn't verbalize the age excuse to her.

[valley]

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""My wife and I have pretty much concluded that the lifestyle is not going to work out for us. My wife just likes to watch ... which pretty much makes me (for lifestyle purposes) ... a married single guy. It just isn't going to work""





I dont understand your problem.If your wife is happy to watch....let her.If she likes it ,indulge her.What do you want?

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Uomo

So I'm going to go about the lifestyle the good old fashioned way: I'm heading out onto the single scene ... or seeking out an extamarital affair.

You have all given me such good advice in the past. So indulge me this one last favor:

Assuming I want to strike up a no-strings sexual relationship with an attractive young woman (married, single or otherwise) ... how would you recommend I go about it?

I wouldn't recommend it. If you are doing this with your wife's enthusiastic blessing, that's a different matter. But the fact is, you yourself have called it an affair (so that's what it is in your own mind), and you've also stated that your wife agreed to your demands only reluctantly.

Swingers, as a general rule, value marriages. We don't cheat and we do our utmost to think of our partner's needs before our own. So you can see why we'd be reluctant to help you to hurt your marriage.

Please consider talking this through more thoroughly with your wife; if you seek ways of satisfying your unmet sexual desires outside of your marriage without first satisfying your wife's need to know that she comes first in your life, you will damage your marriage. It's as simple as that.

[Uomo]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I wouldn't recommend it. If you are doing this with your wife's enthusiastic blessing, that's a different matter. But the fact is, you yourself have called it an affair (so that's what it is in your own mind), and you've also stated that your wife agreed to your demands only reluctantly.

Swingers, as a general rule, value marriages. We don't cheat and we do our utmost to think of our partner's needs before our own. So you can see why we'd be reluctant to help you to hurt your marriage.

Please consider talking this through more thoroughly with your wife; if you seek ways of satisfying your unmet sexual desires outside of your marriage without first satisfying your wife's need to know that she comes first in your life, you will damage your marriage. It's as simple as that.

My wife and I have discussed it. I'm an open book. By "affair" I meant without the other woman's husband knowing.

I'm geting the impression that I'm not going to get much in the way of advice on this subject -- too many philosphical hang-ups. Thanks for the concern and comments, nonetheless.

[Uomo]

Originally Posted by valley

I dont understand your problem.If your wife is happy to watch....let her.If she likes it ,indulge her.What do you want?

That would be ideal ... if I believed that what you are describing is a realistic expectation ... but from what I can gather so far from replies to various posts, it is not. Maybe you are right ... at this point, all I can say is that I am confused, frustrated and pondering my options. I'm not quite sure what to do.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Uomo

I'm geting the impression that I'm not going to get much in the way of advice on this subject -- too many philosphical hang-ups.

Well no...

You probably aren't...

The surprising reason is that swingers actually have a very high respect for marriage. Sure - we play outside the boundaries, but this isn't because we condon cheating.

It also isn't because we can relate to marital dissatisfaction. We do what we do in swinging as an overflow of our highly charged marriage - our incredible sex at home is expressed in part by our intra-marital adventures. Swinging isn't because I need sex with a woman my age - Mrs Spoo is significantly older than me - nor does she allow this "reluctantly". This is something that we both enjoy together - more like partners in crime than disjointed co-dependants.

We are hard on cheating here. I will admit, that harshness boarders on heartlessness. I recognize this. Many here are completely out of touch with "common marriage". We are naive to the problems that most people just accept into their unions. And we can become quite elitist - looking on cheaters as being almost sub-human.

This is not because we feel threatened or vulnerable - but rather because we have something incredible that if we could bottle up and sell at Dillard's (where the shemales work) we could make a fortune.

What you are talking about is slumming around with bored housewives... Folks here can't relate to that... And good for us!

I'd rather be blissfully ignorant in my marriage than be intimately acquainted with the type of marriages where cheating could occur.

Spoomonkey

[sweetshyquiet]

Uomo, I don't see where someone disagreeing with your choice of action equals a philosophical hang-up. Maybe that's just me though. I for one don't care one way or the other, and will happily offer my input.

I have some thoughts about your request, though, that I suspect you won't like either.

Assuming I want to strike up a no-strings sexual relationship with an attractive young woman (married, single or otherwise) ...

You mean, you and 99% of all men on the planet? I mean, seriously, a man looking to get laid by a hot girl with no strings attached? If you don't find what you are looking for here, there are one million other forums where men of all ages, lifestyles and experience levels are sitting around talking about this very thing.

Further, I think if there were one easy answer, we'd be short about 2/3 of the sitcoms, movies and pop songs out there. Drama-free casual sex is just not as easy to come by as you seem to think.

What type of woman might be interested in such a relationship?

Should I pursue married women ... or single women? College students ... or working women? Should I tell women the truth about my marital status and intentions ... or indulge myself a little white lie here and there to achieve my ends? Nightclubs ... or coffee shops?

What type of woman? A woman who is interested in drama-free, casual sex. It's not about an education level, age range, marital status or beverage preference. How a woman (or a man, for that matter) is wired to want sex is unique as a fingerprint. There isn't a secret code to unlock to find the location of the easy girls who won't bug you for a relationship... and if there was, see above, re millions of other men looking for the same secret code. (so if you find it, sell it and start taking money baths)

You seem to be operating under a lot of generalities and misconceptions. I think that before you decide to go out and have this affair, you should learn more about how people think about sex and love.

And, here's my final tough-love offering:

Before I got married, I was your dream girl: single, selective, and interested in no-strings sex with the right type of guy. (and for what it's worth, I still preferred long-term relationships within that parameter, because one-night stands and one-offs don't allow for any sort of connection to build, even if there's not a traditional dating relationship in the picture.) I had figured out that sex and love could be separate, and that "friends with special privileges" made a perfect resource to take care of my physical needs on one side, while allowing me to still make good emotional choices as I navigated the crazy world of dating.

And I wouldn't have touched you with a ten-foot-pole. Ph.D., "highly-attractive" or not. Know why? Because I had the choice of not dealing with the potential drama that you had to offer, as a cheater. When I had the option of the aforementioned million single guys to choose from, I just didn't have to bother with married men -- with whom I had to be the Other Woman, or the potential cause of a divorce, or risk crazy phone calls from a furious wife, etc.

In other words, you are looking for a girl who wants no strings -- but you yourself bring the biggest, most complicated, most drama-filled string to the table. You should think honestly about what you have to offer that supercedes that complication.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Uomo

Assuming I want to strike up a no-strings sexual relationship with an attractive young woman (married, single or otherwise) ... how would you recommend I go about it? What type of woman might be interested in such a relationship?

It doesn't matter. You're married, and since all you really have to offer is occasional, "off-peak" (no holidays, no weekends, no all-nighters) sex, you're going to have to be happy with whoever you can find.

(If, on the other hand, you're offering a BMW, a free boob-job, or a Nordstroms credit card with no limit, you can probably score a younger and/or better looking woman. I know 60-year-old guys who are keeping 30-something women in riverfront condos...How much is that worth to you?)

From what I can tell: most single women are only seem interested a guy if they think it might lead to a long-term relationships...

So? That don't make 'em bad. Guys are only interested in "relationships" if they think it will lead to sex. That don't make us bad, either. What's your point?

...and married women, I haven't quite figured out yet.

That's unfortunate, because I have the feeling that what you don't know about them is going to co$t you plenty in the very near future. Here's my take on it...

As a rule, married women do NOT want their husbands out fucking other women. (It tends to "take the bloom off" the marriage or something) When a woman tells her husband that "it's OK for him to have an affair," they don't mean it. They know the marriage is over, and they're just buying time to get their financial affairs in order.

Your divorce attorney will explain it all to you in greater detail when you and he are trying to find out what the hell happened to all the marital assets you thought you had.

Should I pursue married women ... or single women?

Married women. For one thing, it "keeps it all in the family." Somebody else's unhappy wife becomes your plaything, while your own unhappy wife (who, after all, has a husband who's cheating on her) is free to take on a similar role for some other miserable son-of-a-bitch who's just looking for some afternoon fun. It's kind of like swinging, but without the name tags and door fees and having to find babysitters who can watch the kids overnight.

The other reason is that having an affair with a single woman violates the first rule of marital infidelity, namely, "NEVER fuck anybody who has less to lose than you do if caught." A single woman who doesn't think she's getting the attention she deserves from her married lover can cause you problems you don't even want to think about...especially if her name is Monica...

Should I tell women the truth about my marital status and intentions ... or indulge myself a little white lie here and there to achieve my ends?

Be truthful with them. It's going to be hard enugh keeping up with all the lies you'll have to tell to pull this thing off, starting with the ones you're going to be telling your wife. Besides, women who find out their lovers are married have a nasty habit of calling wives and divulging times, dates, and details that divorce attorneys find very useful in court.

Nightclubs ... or coffee shops?

Neither. The internet is the new clearing house for unhappily married people. Nightclubs are for alcoholics and men too ugly to get laid except by drunk women. Coffee shops are for insomniacs and women who have no better place to be. Get yourself an account on AFF or Match.com, be honest about what you're looking for and why, and wait for the responses to roll in. You might even get your wife to help you write the ad, so it looks appealing "from a woman's perspective."

Hell, she's probably got one over there already...

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by JnCC

the first rule of marital infidelity, namely, "NEVER fuck anybody who has less to lose than you do if caught."

I have to jot down that one!

Uomo, my man. Still around? At least you have a better attitude and a more straight question this time.

I'd agree with JnCC, but shhhhhhhh... I cannot speak out loud, it's politically wrong in here, the "philosophical hang-up" you mention, and that you experienced in the previous thread you started, am I wrong?

Asking people who spend a lot of time on setting high standards for themselves to enjoy their sexuality with others WITHOUT cheating on their partners the best ways to cheat on your partner shows (again) how selfish you are, and the lack of appreciation you have for everyone else's values around you.

Originally Posted by Uomo

My wife and I have discussed it. I'm an open book.

Mr. Open Book, shoud I remind you I dare you to invite your wife to read your posts in this forum, and that your honest answer was "no way". Following JnCC's advice, you better don't or you'd risk to give her attorney more proofs to squeeze you under her 6" hells. I'd like to know about her "reluctant acceptance" if she ever read your posts.

You want to cheat on her and you already managed to get a reluctanct acceptance from her? Congratulations... do it, I am not against adultery, it's not my business, but don't ask us to cheer you.

[GerdOEvert]

You want somd attention?

Get a sailboat. I got one twenty five years ago. We had an open marriage, and I found, to my surprise, that a nice sailboat just draws women. The only trouble with a sailboat is they need to be 30 feet plus, and that means $60,000 plus for purchase and then the montly fees for insurance, slips, etc. And you need to learn to sail. Both of us learned to sail, and enjoyed it. One nice thing about an elegant sailboat, is that you also have a place to "get it on" and a way to "go different places". By the way, even a large sailboat has space only for two couples on a weekend, and the largest would have space for maybe four. Sailboats are close quarters.

As far as "cheating" and "condemnation" on these sites, "Let em preach". People run their own psyches, and all are not the same.

When I was "growing up" I learned that Freud discovered people devoted more than 50% of their thoughts towards sex. So do not feel surprised.

My own training is similar to yours, and my relation to my wife is also similar.
We also came to the conclusion, over a several years, that the lifestyle did not work for us, but that "swapping" or a "close circle" did. I am sure there are exceptions, but "brainy intellectuals" are misplaced in the "lifestyle" as they are in much else in life.

Hope these comments are of use.

Otto

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by GerdOEvert

As far as "cheating" and "condemnation" on these sites, "Let em preach". People run their own psyches, and all are not the same.
... I am sure there are exceptions, but "brainy intellectuals" are misplaced in the "lifestyle" as they are in much else in life.

Well, being a "brainy intellectual" type, perhaps my comments are unwelcome, but let me grab a pulpit anyway...

Ahem...soapbox

I think what it comes down to...is whether or not you give a shit about other people. If you don't and couldn't give a damn what happens to their marriage, then that's your choice.

[txduo2000]

I will squirm my way onto Intuition's soapbox here, also being a "brainy intellectual" ......

Adultery is going to happen, there's no denying it. But there are many of us who do care about our fellow man/woman and will not in any way facilitate or enable it. In our eyes, it is simply wrong. We would not want it done to us (and in many cases, it has been done already), so therefore we hold these feelings close to our hearts and will not do anything knowingly to cause another person pain through deception.

To each his own, but I feel that I, and many others who feel the way I do, are on the right track as far as this subject is concerned. Why be married to someone if their feelings don't matter? Why be married to someone if you are going to deceive them and disrespect them in that manner?

[Chicup]

Dude, just get your divorce already. This is silly.

[Spoomonkey]

I'll wiggle my way onto Intuition's soapbox, right between her and txduo...

Not because I'm a "brainy intellectual" type, but mostly because it looked like a cozy place to be

Spoomonkey