Cheating or Swingers?

[JustAskJulie]

I'm not really sure where this is going but...

One of our big peeves as swingers is those who want to swing but are really nothing more than cheaters. Sometimes it's obvious, the married man trying to play on the side. But sometimes it's not.

If you meet a couple at a swingers party do you automatically assume they really are a happy comitted couple? How do you know?

Here's two situations I have encountered that really got me to thinking about this.

1. A couple that we met several years ago through another couple. As far as we knew they were a happy couple, living together and swinging together. As we got to know them better we found out more. Both were married to other people. She was seperated from her husband (but not divorced). He was still living with his wife but spent a good bit of time with the girlfriend and they swing together. His wife knew of his cheating but he was still married to her.

2. I got an email last week from a single male that I know through my other website telling me that he had finally joined a local swingers club. He told me that he had been waiting because he didn't want to go alone and was hoping to find a woman to go with him. So he posted an ad on AFF and got a response from a married woman who wanted to go as well. Her husband has no knowledge of what she is up to. Chances are those at the club see them as a happy couple when they attend but truth is they are only using each other to go to the club.

Now personally I think that clubs should do more screening of couples they allow in but in reality there is really no way that they could make sure that every couple is a happy committed couple and not just fakes working out a deal to attend a club and cheat on their spouses.

So what do you guys think?

[Close Encounters]

That extra body to make them a 'couple' is called a "Ticket", a term not used often anymore but it should be. Take some time to talk with a couple. How long have you been together? Who's idea was it for you to swing? In less than five minutes you will know if you are dealing with a 'couple' or a Ticket.

[JustAskJulie]

In the case of the first couple, by all accounts they really are a couple (probably moreso than either of them actually is with their own spouse) and they had been together and swinging for about 5 years. It wasn't until I spent a considerable amount of time with the female half that she divulged to me just what was going on.

In that case they aren't using each other in an effort to swing. But they aren't really being honest with others either.

[L&K]

Since we have been burned one time , our current idea of screening a couple i think would
catch a couple where one is a ticket , but given the fact these two has been together that long in any capacity they have the answer to questions a ticket would not have .

I think there is two questions here . 1st , what about a couple where one is a ticket , no we would back away from them with out reservation .

2nd , what constitutes a couple . I personally dont think you have to be married to be a couple
if your married to person A and with person B then no that is not a couple . what if it is two single people that have been together for a number of years ? common law marriage . then i think they make a couple providing they are by all other aspects a couple .

I have knowen a lot of married people that were not a couple by my standards . I just don't think the word " marriage " is the common denominator

M

[frisson]

if your married to person A and with person B then no that is not a couple .

M

Our take on this is:

1) Human relationships take many forms; what one couple requires of one another is not necessarily what the two of us require of each other. To say that "because A is married to B, she can't have a committed relationship with C" would be to impose our own relationship code on others. Frankly, given that we participate in an alternative lifestyle, we wouldn't want any outside third party trying to impose their relationship code on us . So we try to refrain from judging others.

2) We are all responsible for our own morality. When we attempt to keep other people's morals in line, we take on a task that is both thankless and impossible.

For example, we know a couple very similar to the one Julie describes above. They have been showing up regularly at our favorite couples' club for several months. They seem attached to one another, and they party as a couple. We learned from them recently that they are in fact both married to other people. Both claim that they're swinging with the knowledge and consent of their legal partners.

I guess to some here, that would disqualify them as potential swinging partners. In our case, if there were a mutual interest (there isn't), we would party with them.

Of course there is a possibility that they aren't telling the truth, that one or more of them is cheating on a spouse. But to determine their truthfulness would require a polygraph or a private detective. That may seem excessive, but if you state unequivocally that "we only swing with true committed couples who aren't cheating on a partner" then you really should do some kind of background check on the people you play with, to ensure that they're "clean," before you play with them.

For us, if two people look and act and claim to be a true couple--then they're a true couple, for our purposes. We party with a lot of people we don't know very well, so that's the only practical approach for us. We don't party with obviously bogus couples, but it's entirely possible that a couple can appear to be in a committed relationship when in fact one or the other is cheating on a spouse. (In fact, it's entirely possible that an adulterous relationship actually is a committed relationship. It may not be very nice, but it's possible).

In the end, people's morality is their own affair. We can only police others to the extent of avoiding those who clearly are not a couple. Beyond that, we take them at face value. It's really the only practical approach.

[gourmet cook]

The issue of whether a couple is a couple by marriage definitions seems odd and is provacative in other ways.
The imposition of marital status is absurd and discriminating to the public at large. Certainly swingers are not the public at large and neither should we accept that discrimination of our choosing an alternative lifestyle.
If indeed a couple chooses to participate in a club scene and they go off to engage in their own activity, ie, FF with male watching or not watching as the case may be. What matters that? It happens doesn't it? Do we now post at the door a sergeant-at-arms to screen a couples' intentions?
It seems curious to me that the imposition of morality on a couples' intention is misplaced when the act of swapping of your spouse for an evening of pleasure is called adultery in some states and is a crime. Shouldn't be but it is just the same. How about anal sex? Popular pastime and fun too! That too is a crime in many states and it is called sodomy. Yet, that is but a minor detail amongst agreeable couples and that is the crux of the matter here, the mutual consent of couples and partners. Does it really matter who you get in the door with if all that it amounts to is having a good time where no one gets hurt.

[JustAskJulie]

It seems like this topic has taken a turn in a different direction and I'm not sure if it's because perhaps my ramblings were misunderstood.

My initial ramblings had nothing to do with marital status of the couple but of actual committed couple status. IE. in both cases we are dealing with people who are cheating on their spouses, but who are able to walk into any swinger club with this other person by their side and be seen as a swinger. If upon meeting these couples we knew the truth, I doubt many (if any) of us would play with them. But the truth is that in most cases we will never know.

In the case of the first couple I mentioned, it's doubtfult that even full screening would "out" them as cheaters since they have been together for so long.

However, in the case of the second couple where they are using each other as nothing more than "tickets", I think it would be easy for a club owner to screen them and prevent them from stepping through the doorway (as well they should).

[JustAskJulie]

So let me throw a question at you now. If you met either of these couples and knew the truth about them, would you swing with them?

[OhioCouple]

So let me throw a question at you now. If you met either of these couples and knew the truth about them, would you swing with them

My answer to this question is an emphatic NO! Deception is a big no no in my book! Should my husband do anything sexual with another outside of our agreed upon knowledge, I would be waking up the attorney and have the paperwork filed by morning as I am sure he would if I did so. Our decision to share ourselves with others was a mutual one. We do it "together" .

I would never consider over stepping those bounds and I am sure my husband wouldn't either. These scenarios that you present are representative of both cheaters and very deceptive people. Would you consider having these sort of people as friends in your non-swinging life? I think most would not.

Lori

So, here is another aspect of this discussion. I'd like to know what the opinions of the above respondents on this matter; I am a married male. I have been meeting with swinging couples for whatever activities we want to do for about two years. My wife is aware, and also gives me her blessing because she is really not physically able any more to get out and do the things I like to do. I tell these people right up front the true story. Most think I'm making it up. A few believe me. I don't usually have a note from mommy handy. Am I a cheater? BTW- I never go with single women. To me that would be cheating on my beloved wife for sure. Somehow it's different to me. Mark

[JustAskJulie]

Mark,

There's a big difference between what you described and the original scenarios. If your wife knows and approves then no you aren't cheating. Granted many won't believe you without a "note from mommy" but that's the price you pay. There are probably more guys lying and saying they are completely single in an effort to cheat than their are married guys who lie and say their wife knows.

[Quin]

So let me throw a question at you now. If you met either of these couples and knew the truth about them, would you swing with them?

No.

Quin
The Graemlin-less

[Blacklightphantasy]

Im with Quin.

[ August 31, 2002, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Blacklightphantasy ]