Indecent proposal - When friends ask you to cheat

[markinpa]

Hello,

I am a happily married man who has been married to my loving wife for 7 years now. We are not swingers but hang out with friends who are swingers. We attend their parties and leave when the atmosphere begins to get a bit more flirtacious and sexual.

I've known the man of the couple for 7 years because I work with him. My wife knows the spouse and her family because she used to babysit her and her other sister.

We all live in a small town where everybody knows everybody and when a secret gets out, the whole town knows in the span of a few days.

My wife and I respect our friends for their lifestyle. We do not have a problem with their swinging. As long as they do not flirt with us we are okay with it.

Here's my problem.

I usually golf with my friend, then we go down and have a few drinks at the local establishment. His wife is usually there with their friends. My wife attends also. The other night my wife left to go home because she needed to get up early for work. I stayed to have a few more beers.

My friend's wife usually pokes me a couple of times when I make a brash comment. NO sexual innuendos were made. I poked her back once just to be even. When she would get up to use the ladie's room she would place her hands on my shoulders and walk behind me. I figured she just needed to balance herself so she wouldn't bump into me.

As the night progressed I switched my seat to be on the the other side of her. She then started to touch my knee with her fingers not the whole hand. She stayed at the tip of my knee and did not venture any further up my leg. I didn't mind it because 1 (I had enough alcohol that I was numb from the neck down) and 2 (she wasn't pushing it any further up my leg so I let it go).

My 2 more beers turned into like 4 more and we left just before closing time at 1 am. My friend invites me up to his house along with the people left with us so that we could check out the new renovations of their house. They had completely gutted out a few rooms.

It is not unusual for me to go to their house after being out all night. We would go back with other people and play board games or cards. I also stipulated that the clothes must stay on. They would joke with me about playing strip poker or strip to whatever game that we were currently playing just to make my face red.


Anyway, while my friend and I are looking at what's left of his living room, he tells me that his wife is into me and wants to have sex with me. I tell him that I didn't believe him. He then says that she has been hot for me for 2 years now. I tell him no thanks but I am married and show him my ring. He shows me his and says "So am I".

He then starts telling me that he saw how bad I was flirting with his wife all night at the bar. I had only poked her in the ribs once and let her touch my knee. I wasn't groping her, fondly her, or kissing her.

I then told him that I could not do it because somebody would find out and my marriage would screwed and my life would be screwed. He basically said "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" and that they would never tell anyone. I said no again.

My friend then started accusing me of not thinking his wife was all that attractive. She is attractive but I do not lust after her. At that point, I finished my beer and said that I had to go. I was tired and pretty numb.

My friend then called his wife over to talk to me. I kept my composure and kept walking to my vehicle. I could not let her talk to me because I of how her voice gets when she pleads and my heart would not be able to take it.

She followed me to my vehicle and asked if I was okay to drive home. I said yes, and told her goodnight. She kissed me on the cheek and watched me back out of the driveway. I then went home and passed out on the bed.

The next evening I discussed this with my wife. She kidded with me about staying out too late with them and not learning my lesson by going to their house almost alone. She then got serious and said that she is my wife and I am her husband. She does not want to share me with anyone else and she doesn't want to be shared either.

Okay, I got that off my chest and everything should be okay, right?

Not exactly. I thought I could push it to the back of my mind, but I keep thinking about that night. I know that there was much alcohol involved and everybody was in a good mood. Probably a good horny mood.
But I cannot concentrate at work now much less anytime else. Now I am thinking about what would have happened had I not said "NO".

It is beginning to drive me nuts!!! I have not yet spoke to the other couple because I am afraid I will get propositioned again and they might be a bit more forceful about it.

Are there people out in this world that find somebody attractive and want to have sex with them in order to put a notch in their belt so to speak?

I do not know if this is why she wants to have sex with me because I've always fended off any advances she has made to me?

She had tried to kiss me once and I told her "NO".
She asked me why and I told her that I was afraid that I would either not be a good kisser to her or I would be a great kisser (which would lead to more trouble). That was what I was afraid of that night. If I had said "YES" and we had had sex then what happens if it was nothing great? But, what if it was great? Would she want more? Would her husband (my friend) get jealous of me because she wanted me more? Would her husband then want to have sex with my wife because I had sex with his? That would then be the end of my life as I know it.

I have read that if one spouse says no to the other spouse swinging then it is best to not swing. I am not interested in swinging but I still have the seventeen year old boy in me that had dreamed of getting propositioned by a lady to have sex.

I have watched my share of porn movies and have been to strip clubs with my older cousin. This was way before I met my wife. I was a virgin until I met my wife. Our sex has been great. We always end up being tired the next day because we get each other so excited.

I don't think we need to spice up our sex any because of the above paragraph.
What I want to know is why am I still having thoughts about the other couple, especially the wife?
I do not want to surrender to any sexual urges that my come up because I know my life will be ruined. How do I get my big head to communicate with my little head or vice versa?

If anyone has any experiences or advise the please feel free to give it.

Gratefully yours,

markinpa

[txduo2000]

I can see your dilemma ...

Before my husband and I started swinging, actively, we had only been married a year and together for two. We had both been married before, he had been married twice actually.

The way we got into it is kind of funny, but VERY slow ... my previous marriage of almost 10 years was to my high school sweetheart and was VERY boring and monotonous and monogomous ... the way I thought marriage was supposed to be. The fantasy of enjoining more into our sex life, which was ok but not always great, NEVER entered my mind. I thought swingers were weird perverts. :rollseyes

So I meet my current husband at the beginning of my divorce ... as we get to know each other more and more, he tells me his brother and sister-in-law are swingers. I had a good laugh over that and told him how odd that was and so on and so on. But I am an adventurous girl, so as time goes by, I agree to go to an off-premise swingers club just for the voyeuristic and vicarious thrill of being around such free and easy (and weird :rollseyes ) people. We went to this club a few times and some touching from others eventually occurred, but nothing really outlandish. Freaked me out to some degree. Surrender

So, more time goes by. We look at websites, continue occasionally going to the club, talk about fantasies, etc. The biggest turn on was when we would be having sex and he would talk (he's a big talker during sex) about "it would be so hot to have another guy here doing this and that to you while I am doing this and that." So, yeah, I started to get a little turned on more and more as time went by.

So THEN we went to a house party. We hadn't really communicated about boundaries and some jealousy issues came up and I ended up with this man without my husband around and without his input and it turned into a disaster!!! Put the brakes big-time on swinging for a little while!

Slowly we started back up again a few months later. I did some reading, we decided to try to find a couple ... but I couldn't do it with the familiarity and all. We went over boundaries and went to another house party ... this time it was a success and it was a major turn on for me.

We have had some bumps and bruises down this road, and stopped swinging altogether for a couple years, but we are in it full throttle now and I LOVE it!

My advice is to just talk very openly about swinging with your wife, if you are the least bit interested. Or just start out talking about fantasies, especially when you are making love. You might not really be into it yourself, and the fantasy will be enough to just spice up your marriage, or you never know .... you might find yourself traveling down that same 5mph road that we traveled to get where we are today. Whatever you do, DO NOT give in to your friend's requests to have sex with his wife. Number one, your wife is not into it and that makes it cheating. Number two, YOU are not totally into it and your head can't be cloudy with testosterone for that kind of decision. Number three, TALK to your long-time friend and let him know how seriously uncomfortable all that makes you. Tell him that IF you ever decide to swing it will have to be on your terms and in your time and without any pressure from anyone else. If he is a true friend and values the friendship, then he should be understanding of that.

[EvilMJ]

It seems to me that you love your wife and she loves you and niether of you want to swing. I say leave it at that, swinging is not for everyone.

There is nothing more excitiing that having someone find you attractive and flirt with you. I have had a lot of "what if" situations in my time before swinging and left them at that. I think you did a good thing by saying no. Think of how it would have hurt your wife.

IMO your friends don't sound like very good friends to me, they know you don't want to swing and yet they get very aggressive and pushy with you, made advances when they know you are drinking..etc. Personally I would not want to have anything to do with people like that because they obviously don't have your best interests in mind, nor do they care about your wife's feelings. Most of the swingers you will meet here are against cheating on your spouce, they don't seem to have that opinion.

Best decide what is most important to you, good sex or a wonderful life with someone who loves you.

[markinpa]

Thank you both for your replies.

I have read other postings and the general consensus is not to cheat.
I will follow that path and hopefully I will not come to a fork in the road like this for some time.

I also say kudos for you all who do swing. As long as everyone is comfortable with it then have a good time. I know how television and movies have stereotyped the swinging set. Remember the parties with the fishbowl and car keys?

Maybe someday I will be back on these boards for advice if my wife and myself ever decide to try.

Thanks again
My mind (and libido) have been put to rest.

markinpa

[Vespertine]

Dito

I totally agree with MJ.

[dreamer]

Your so called friend sounds like a real creep. He has no respect for your marriage or what it means to be honest or loyal in a relationship. I'd dump those people pretty quick.

[RNDNV]

Originally Posted by EvilMJ

It seems to me that you love your wife and she loves you and neither of you want to swing. I say leave it at that, swinging is not for everyone.... Most of the swingers you will meet here are against cheating on your spouse, they don't seem to have that opinion.

We couldn't agree with EvilMJ more. There is a standard (and well to be but not always followed by some) rule in the Lifestyle that swingers ought NEVER try to convert their vertical friends into horizontal ones. That, coupled with the fact that they do not honor your wife (by encouraging you to cheat on her with them) indicates to us that they are relatively unsophisticated and insensitive in their approach to their own swinglife. It is one thing to violate the rule by trying to get a vanilla couple to swing (generally a bad idea), it's an entirely different matter when a couple attempts to get one spouse to cheat on the other. This couple is WAY, WAY, WAY out of line, and your wife is right that you put yourself in a very vulnerable position by putting yourself in the space for the story as you told it to have occured.

In a certain sense, I think you are trying to BS yourself into this, and frankly, your wife is not on board with you. She may never be, and you had best prepare yourself for that. You better have a heart to heart, first with yourself about what you really want, then with your beloved about what you come up with. It is never wrong to share with your wife what it is you think you want, but be prepared that you might not get what you think you want.

All that aside, you indeed sound like you are both steeply caught up in the traditional paradigms of what society in general puts upon us regarding marriage and monagamy and fidelity and what is supposed to be right and wrong. From your postings, it seems to us that as a philosophical perspective both you and your wife are fairly far away from the swinging mentality, and that to continue to venture down this path may be fraught with danger for your marriage. We are not saying that swinging is something you guys might not ever do, but is sure sounds like you aren't ready for it now, emotionally that is.

We can't give you any solid advise on what you should do with this other couple that are your friends, but from what we can discern, perhaps the BOTH of you should have a sober and honest conversation, with the BOTH of them, that their behavior is damaging your friendship with them, and that if they can't "cool their jets" with you guys, then you may have to limit your association with them, and that is not what you guys want to see happen. That should do the trick.

Good luck, RND

[intuition897]

EDIT>> I just read RND's post above and it is BANG ON correct! RND stated very eloquently exactly my thoughts on the matter. So, Dito Dito Dito !!! I especially agree that it sounds like, for all your protestations, you're curious about swinging. If I were you, I'd take some quiet time and do some soul-searching. Don't cover your eyes, 'accidentally' stumble into a bad situation and then try to say it wasn't your fault. I'm sure your credibility with your wife means more to you than what the rest of society thinks...right? If you are curious, there's no harm in being honest with yourself and your wife about it. You won't burn in hell for being curious and inquisitive. The question is never the problem; the answer is the hard part to deal with.
Anyway, I won't delete my post. Took too damn long to write. :rollseyes

Hi markinpa,

#1 - These 'friends' of yours were not behaving appropriately. They should never have tried to proposition you, aiming to keep your wife in the dark. That's pretty destructive behaviour for people who are supposed to be focused on relationship improvement!

#2 - "I could not let her talk to me because I of how her voice gets when she pleads and my heart would not be able to take it." If your heart is getting mixed up in your lust, then swinging is definitely not an option for you right now!

#3 - I think the bottom line is, everyone wants to feel wanted. That's one of the reasons that swinging is so much fun for us: we get to savour the feeling of being sexually attractive to other people. It's like the difference between your Mom telling you that you're special, and getting picked first for the baseball team. The people closest to us love us dearly, but we always take what they say with a grain of salt because we know that they're biased. So although we know we are super-sexy and attractive to our own partner, we start believing it a little more strongly when other people - strangers who owe us nothing - start saying, "Hey you are pretty sexy. Yeah, I'd do you in a second!" I think the reason you can't get the idea out of your head is that you're riding the high of feeling sexually desired by others right now. It's a novelty, and it will wear off eventually.

You've gotten some pretty good advice from other posters. Sounds like neither of you are interested in swinging...at least not right now. You really do need to be able to separate love and sex, and let go of the notion that sharing your bodies is equal to sharing your hearts before you'll find any peace in it. I'd say just focus on loving one another and on improving one another's lives. In the meantime, stick around the board and read up on some of the threads here. Your friends' attitudes are not the norm around here, and we all like to focus on building better relationships. Even if it's not about swinging, if you have a relationship issue go ahead and post it. We like to help

Again, Welcome!

[RNDNV]

Man o man, Dito Dittos right back to you intuition; we dig your mind. You made some great points about our feelings about ourselves and getting strokes from others to feed us with positive nourishment.

Love ya, RND

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by RNDNV

Man o man, Dito Dittos right back to you intuition; we dig your mind. You made some great points about our feelings about ourselves and getting strokes from others to feed us with positive nourishment.

Love ya, RND

RNDNV and I are posting over top of one another here. Thanks for the feedback, and right back at ya!

[markinpa]

I just read the newer posts and am in agreement.

I guess I got too taken by the feeling of "hey, a woman is actually interested in me".
If I had a nickel for everytime this has happened in my life, then I would be up to 25 cents now.
I was usually the guy that everyone knew but was never invited out to do anything.
My wife was the first person to kick me in the rear and get me out socializing
She was also my first. That was at my age of 23 so I had a lot of repressed sexual tension to let out.
During the first few years of our dating we were like rabbits.
Now we have slowed down a bit due to work, age, and endurance.
Also, when we were first dating I would be a gentlemen and look away while she changed her clothing. Now, we both watch each other dress and undress and comment on our bodies.

I have come a long way in appreciating my body along with hers and understanding through conversation about what we both need.

I have spoken with my wife about this incident and we both came to the agreement that we need to keep our interaction with this couple to a minimum.

I do not mean to rattle on. I just need to get some constructive criticism so I can keep my head on straight. This is much better than seeing a therapist. Less cost and better feedback. No references to Jung, Freud or that lot.

I do appreciate all of your aid in helping to sort this out.
I will keep this thread updated for awhile so that it may be used to help out any other individual(s) who might be in this situation.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by markinpa

I have spoken with my wife about this incident and we both came to the agreement that we need to keep our interaction with this couple to a minimum.

That's great that you feel comfortable talking with your wife about what happened. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that it felt really good to know that some other woman was hot for you. It sounds like you and your wife are on an even keel about things, and hopefully she did not misinterpret your enjoyment of the situation as a lack of love for her (if you're unsure of that, it might not be a bad idea to ask her how she feels about your behaviour that night. If she's hurt by it, a little sucking up might be in order ). And I think, if I were you, I'd avoid this couple. DO NOT go to any more of their parties, even if you do intend to leave early. No point in immersing yourself in the temptation to indulge in something that - IMO - at this point would be a very destructive force in your relationship. You're better off without them. As they say, with friends like that...

Originally Posted by markinpa

I do not mean to rattle on. I just need to get some constructive criticism so I can keep my head on straight. This is much better than seeing a therapist. Less cost and better feedback. No references to Jung, Freud or that lot.

Yeah, I guess we're a little less formal. I saw a counsellor once to help me deal with some depression I was experiencing at the time. What a useless endeavour that was!! I saw her several times and each time I walked out of her office feeling condescended to and misunderstood. Hell, in one session (after I'd been seeing her for a few weeks!!) she actually called me by the wrong name the whole time. I've always felt recharged though after having a good talk over several cups of coffee with a friend. Lots of chocolate, lots of coffee, lots of talking. Works like a charm.

[markinpa]

(if you're unsure of that, it might not be a bad idea to ask her how she feels about your behaviour that night. If she's hurt by it, a little sucking up might be in order )

She might have been hurt a little bit, but she was much happier that I said "no" and told her about it.

I am planning on giving her a bubble bath where she can drink some of her favorite wine and read a book. Candles included. Then, a nice soothing massage.

[markinpa]

Well, it's time for me to get going.
Have a good evening, afternoon, or morning.

I will post any updates.

Thank you all so very much.

[RNDNV]

Originally Posted by intuition897

RNDNV and I are posting over top of one another here.

Hey intuition, you can get on top of me anytime...

As for you markinpa, I wonder how long you guys have been married and how old you are? By your last post it almost seems as though you guys are the prototypical type of couple that successfully finds the swinging lifestyle to be a wonderful complement to their marriage. I have often said on this board (and I will say it again), it is the committed couples who are deeply in love with each other, and that have great communication with each other, that get the most out of swinging. Its an interesting paradox, but so true, the couples who LEAST need to swing are the ones who get the most from this activity. It is a game for strong and successful relationships, and not a good game for those couples who have "issues," like what your so-called friends appear to have in spades.

Best regards, RND