Cheating- justified??

What are your opinions on people who cheat, because, even thought they love their partners, there is just simply not enough sex in the relationship, and the aforementioned partner simply refuses to try to make any effort to improve their sex lives?

I'm talking about a married/attached man and a married/attached female who meet solely for sex, to satisfy their needs that arent being met by their respective spouses....I'm not talking about the typical male who is just a philandering slob that will nail any woman who's willing.....I'm also not talking about the 2 people having an affair that will lead to them running away together or hanything...

I am referring to a strictly exclusive, purely sexual agrement between 2 people

[lycioos]

I do understand where you are coming from. Some people do crave sex more than others, but trying to explain to your wife when you get caught (and you will get caught, it always happens) will not make the betrayal feel any less painful because it was "purely a sexual agrangement" The truth is that she will feel hurt and betrayed and may even leave you over this, as she should. I would highly reccomend that you communicate your feelings to her. Tell her how you are feeling. You may even want to try reading some good books about spicing up your relationship or seeing a sex therapist. ANYTHING except cheating and yes it is cheating and clearly not justified. It will never be condoned here, and nor should it be. You are talking about possibley breaking someones heart. What a shame. Good luck with your journey towards answers. I hope you make the right choice.

[ 02-23-2002: Message edited by: lycioos ]

[JustAskJulie]

I have to agree with Lycious. Cheating is still cheating no matter what the reason.

If it is that major of a deal, then talk to her. If she has no desire for sex, she may be open to you going out on your own "JUST FOR SEX". And then you wouldn't have to cheat (she'd know so it's not cheating). If she won't, then you need to make that choice. Is the sex so important to you that you are willing to lose the person you love over it? If so, then move on.

[Alura]

Hi, Nick!

We have to agree with lycioos. You're not likely to get any support here. The mere fact that your wife and your playmate's husband don't know makes it cheating. We don't know any swingers who will say that's okay.

On the other hand, you might talk with your playmate first and see if she would be willing to try to change your sneaky friendship to an open one with your "spice" involved and try to work toward a playful relationship of intermarital sex. If y'all can pull it off, the sex would be a lot more fun for all four of you and you'd be a lot more relaxed, with nothing to hide.

If you want to go that route, we feel sure you could get a lot of advice on this forum on how to move your play in that direction.

Alura

[Stratecpl]

Nick,

I have to agree wholeheartedly with everyone else on this. Cheating is always wrong, but SHARING is always SOO RIGHT!! Communicate your feelings with her, make her understand exactly how you feel. And be sure that she explains her views to you, as well. I mean, we're talking about the rest of your lives here. It's probably the single most important thing in your lives right now, so don't minimize its importance. We wish you the very best, and hopefully it will turn out rosy for all four.

Ron, Husband of Stratecpl

[Trish]

Well, in my opinion, it depends..You have to know what your true motives are....Are you just being a horny bastard looking for strange pussy, or are you truly desperate? Have you really made a sincere effort to try everything to rekindle your wife's desire for sex? If you have, and she simply refuses, then you may wanna seek therapy, she might need some hormone shots or herbal supplements....

However, if you try everything and she just wont compromise, you need to decide if you want to continue the relationship...This happens to a lot of couples, the sex fizzles out even though they love each other and want to stay together....If you DO wanna stay with her, then maybe you will need to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere..Now, if you go that route, plan your course of action VERY carefully....

1. stick to ONE woman
2. you'll probably want to find a woman in a similar situation, so you know she wont get attached and want you to leave your wife for her...
3. dont change your behavior around your wife in any noticeable way, this is a dead giveaway
4. Do NOT get involved witha single woman, too much of a risk for attachment on her part


This is a big decision, and I know some will disagree with me, but if theres no other alternative, you have to get your sexual desires fulfilled by SOMEONE, and if she wont do it, then you have to do what you have to do

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: Trish ]

[kennlea]

Ok after reading trish's post i have to say that she is so wrong. If you feel the need to "CHEAT" turn to you hand and a magazine cheating is never right in 12 years of marrage i have never done more than kiss another woman on the cheek without lea's ok
Ken

[Trish]

Originally posted by kennlea:
Ok after reading trish's post i have to say that she is so wrong. If you feel the need to "CHEAT" turn to you hand and a magazine cheating is never right in 12 years of marrage i have never done more than kiss another woman on the cheek without lea's ok
Ken

Ken, thats easy for you to say..You have a wife that likes sex, and swings,.....You get your fill, you even get to have all sorts of kinky fantasies fulfilled.......Put yourself in the shoes of a guy whose wife has NO interest in sex, and wont try to work on things....Is he just supposed to resign himself to the fact that he's only gonna get sex 1 or 2 times a month or whatever?

likes

[SagaCapt]

Trish and I seem to be in agreement at least to a point.

This is one of the toughest questions someone can face. You're in a stable, long term relationship with someone you love very much but you don't get all your needs met in that relationship.

TALK, discuss your needs, wants and desires! Open and honest communcation is the best way to go. We know a number of couples who have different levels of sex drive and they work it out by allowing the partner with the higher drive to meet their needs outside. The real key is us is HONEST and OPEN communication.

Now what if you open the discussion and you're the one needing more and your partner won't talk about it or just says NO and closes the conversation ignoring your needs?

This is where lots of people turn to counseling rather than an outside lover.

What if your partner won't go to counselling and won't talk. Now the HUGE decision comes. Is a broken relationship ( it's broken because open communication isn't happening and your needs are being ignored ) worth the risk, trouble and potential massive PAIN caused by "cheating"? This is a personal and painful choice.

Maybe you have decided that the relationship is worth the risk and trouble. I won't fault you or chastise you but we won't play with you either since we as well as most folk in the lifestyle, don't play with folks who aren't open and honest with their partner.

Just ignoring the problem and resorting to masturbation may work for a while but in my experience, sooner or later your subconcious will kick in and you'll do something irrational, dangerous and destructive to you or the relationship. I don't beleive that sexual needs and desires can be simply ignored.

Good luck!

Alan

[youngswingers]

Trish and Nick... you guys are walking a slippery slope with this course of argument. It is a pretty easy moral jump from rationally cheating because nobody gets hurt and things even more obviously reprehensible (for example, stealing is obviously wrong regardless if nobody gets hurt). We don't support cheating because it, at its most basic level, is a betrayal of trust. Regardless of rationalization, you cannot change that fact. As swingers, hold that trust as a cornerstone of the lifestyle. If we don't have that trust we could never participate in what we do. We work out our desires with our partner... it is not like we just independently decided to swing one day. We do NOT go behind our partner's back to live out our fantasies. So here's deal guys... if your love life is not what it is cracked up to be work on it with the one you are with or leave that situation.

[invictus]

This is M and I have a very definite opinion on this topic....

I have been married twice and in another long-term relationship prior to the first marriage. I have never been in the "non interested" partner situation you have described, however, prior to my first wife and I divorcing, I did become involved with someone else. That was almost a decade ago and I still feel guilt about the cheating.

We did not divorce over the cheating. We did not divorce about lack of sex. We divorced because we married young and had simply grown into two vastly different people with different goals and directions in life.

Because I did start a new relationship prior to the divorce, I became the "bad guy". No one wants to know the reality of the divorce. No one wants to know that I still feel guilty all these years later. This spilled into friends, family, co-workers, etc. who all considered me the "bad guy" for leaving my wife for "another woman".

If you and your wife really have a problem that you cannot come to grips with (lack of sex or whatever), then you must decide if the relationship is sustainable and can continue. As for me, as long as the ring and the law says I am married, I will not cheat on my wife.

I sincerely plan, hope, and believe that J and myself will "grow old and die" in each other arms. If for some unfathomable reason that is not in the cards, then we will be truly and permanently split-up before I will seek another.

I have lived through the cheating with much regret. I believe it is not worth it for any reason that is not also justification for getting out of the commitment you are in.

Having said all that, I will reiterate a comment from a post I made a couple weeks back on a different topic. SWINGING IS NOT CHEATING. Swinging is an extra-curricular activity enjoyed by BOTH partners in a relationship. If they are not both enjoying it then they do not need to continue. It is not a "little" thing you do for your spouse. Swinging takes a very committed relationship between the couple. It is not the same as going to a movie she wants to see because she wants to. One person is not swinging. It is cheating, or a single person, or a soon to be single person.

Just my humble opinion...

M

[bsu_Ali]

I thought Nick might need to hear a different kind of reply.

Nick, is your wife disinterested in sex for any particular reason that you know of? I ask because I have very first hand knowledge of having absolutely NO sex drive. I went for an entire year (maybe longer) after our son was born and could have cared less if I ever had sex again. As soon as I quit taking birth control shots, the sex drive came back. Thank goodness. I am just saying that maybe if they talk to their doctor or a nurse, maybe they could help them out with some suggestions. Just a thought.

[sccple29073]

" even thought they love their partners, there is just simply not enough sex in the relationship " Nick

Nick
As others have said..This IS a very hard choice for anyone to have to make. The key point ,is choice!
The definition of cheat is to practice fraud or trickery. Why would someone do this to somebody they "love".
If you are facing this choice then I don't think that cheating is an option. If you really love her then make the right choice...work with whaat you have and get ya some movies or magazines or leave her and let her find someone that will "love, honor and cherish her".
My 1.00 worth..lol

[M&B]

Cheating is NEVER an acceptable option. I was the cheatee in a former marriage. While there were all kinds of psycho-babble reasons for it, it was wrong.

The kind of pain that you inflict can be some of the worst one can feel. You never know how someone is going to react to something as dramatic as cheating. And how do you want to find out how your wife will react? By throwing her heart to the wolves and seeing if she "deals" with it?

By the way, was her libido already less than normal when you were married? Or did it go down hill? If you haven't already, you should discuss these things with her. Counselling may be called for here.

While it is surely only a bad joke to suggest putting some lipstick on your fist, consider it for now, and work on tomorrow.

I have heard of this problem in couples' relationships. In too many cases, cheating occurred, then they divorced. It was so sad because the pain of separation was compounded by the shame, hurt, betrayal and ego damage of the affair. These can leave scars that last a life time. Consider, too, that you will have to live with the pain you inflict. Are you the kind that can?

Perhaps, after really trying and IF there are no kids involved, you may be faced with the decision to divorce. Avoid this route if at all possible. TRY LIKE HELL to make it work. Just don't cheat on her.

M

[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: M&B ]

[dano]

Nick,
I have been in your shoes in a past marriage. I tried for several years (12) to make it work, but porn and your hand will only satisfy you temporarily and only makes the problem worse because you are watching all the things you are not able to do with your wife. I resorted to cheating in the hopes of keeping the marriage together, but did so only after having tried talking to her, suggesting books, seeing a M.D., counseling, etc. She just didn't want to make an effort. I even asked her for permission to get "just sex" from an outside source, that didn't go over to well. Now I am not condoning cheating, it helped me at first, but eventually made matters worse at home because now I was getting from someone else what my wife wasn't giving me. This made me more angry and hostile towards my wife when she turned down my sexual advances. There are some good suggestions in the above responses, try them, and if thay don't work, then as a person who has walked in your shoes I would strongly suggest that you consider looking for someone else. Divorce is not good, but living a marriage that doesn't work for both of you is worse, and please don't stick it out for the kids, they DO know that things aren't working between the two of you. I had to make that decision 7 years ago, and after a little searching I found the woman who satisfies all of my needs, as I do hers. So there is life after a divorce, but before you take that step, try all of the suggestions in the responses you have read before mine, no need for me to repeat them, but there is one that I didn't see, and yes, my fiancee and I have read it and found it helpfull. Read the book "Men are from mars and women are form venus", if she will read it with you it may help.
Good luck and I wish the two of you well.