Is it just me, or is my wife out of control?

[incommunicado]

First I ask, in the interest of time, try to make do with the details given, as I could write a book describing every last circumstance, and this is huge anyway. Second, I will admit I am just looking to blow off some steam, so, though I appreciate advice or suggestions, please don't try to analyze every detail. Thanks!

A few years ago, my wife and I indulged in our first swinging relationships with some friends, and had a great time. We probably picked a bad time to start this, because we were going through a lot of stress over unemployment (mine) and lack of money. At one point, I even suggested that she leave, to save herself from financial ruin. This lack of coming together in a time of crisis was bad for us and she started having two affairs, which lasted a brief time. One I found out about and another I learned about recently, that she doesn't know I know about. Now, I reallize that relationship and money problems prompt people to do some pretty stupid things. So, we stopped swinging (easy, because our friends started seeing other people) and went to some therapy (what we could afford). She said that she had thought I had given up on us, so she turned to another, in desparation, but reallized I was still there for us, and that she wanted our marriage to work so she ended it. Seemed simple enough. Wish it were.

About six months later, I discovered that she had e-mailed two nude photos I had taken of her, to a male friend from school. She said it was a joke, in retaliation for him flashing her in the parking lot at school (another inappropriate action I might add) and that it meant nothing and they are just friends. I suggested to her that this behavior was not becoming of two married people and that she was also showing tremendous indiscretion by doing this with a classmate. By the way, I also moved out for a week. When we finally sat down to talk, she admitted that her behavior was over the top, and she didn't want to lose me, and I admitted how much I still wasn't over the affair (the one I knew of) that she had. Partially, because she had never admitted to having sex with the guy. So, finally she admitted to at least that. But, wait, there's more...

With the seeds of distrust firmly planted, I began spying on her. I learned that she had been sharing sexually explicit fantasy e-mails with certain friends from school and work. They were written so as to seem like they had actually happened. So, I confronted her and she said that it was just her way of garnering fantasy material, like I read stories from this site. I told her that it was not the same because there isn't a known person to meet up with in a moment of weakness, associated with the stories I read here. I asked her to stop ALL contact with the people she had been writing to, but she just changed her password and continued for another day or so. I told her, it was hurting me that she was devoting so much sexual energy elsewere (40+ e-mails), and if she didn's stop, it would cost her her marriage. So, she seemed to stop. But wait, still more...

She had created a user profile on yahoo messenger, originally (so she said) to
flirt with me (redirect her energy towards us). But, people have been just finding her out of the blue and IMing her. So, I created another profile, so she wouldn't know it was me, and contacted her. In minutes we were on the topinc of sex, within a short period of time, I had her supposedly touching herself under her desk and within about an hour, I had her sending me a discreet nude photo in exchange for one of me. She kept saying "I should behave, this got me into trouble before," but then would just go right ahead. It took nothing for me to push the right buttons with her to get her to open up. I got her to talk dirty, to tell me about her sexual exploits outside her marriage, including another affair that I didn't know about that happened with a married friend of ours, at the same time as the first. On one occasion, that same man had actually fingered her in a bar when I went to the bathroom. She also told me that one of the people she was e-mailing, had grabbed her and kissed her at one point, and she had responded. This has gone on for days, with her saying she won't tell me who she is, or agree to meet me, for fear of hurting her marriage, but she keeps trying to figure out where I live.

She has said to my online character, that she loves her husband, that her 13 years with him means a lot to her, that her sex life at home is great and frequent, and that she doesn't want to risk losing everything. But, she also says she hopes I will eventually want to start swinging again, and that it is hard for her to be completely sexually faithful.

Bottom line, whether she's screwing other guys, like she was two years ago, when we were having major money problems, or allowing herself to be kissed or touch sexually, or "flirting" with friends or even strangers who IM her or e-mail her, I think she needs to get some "strange" elsewhere to be fully satisfied. I really feel like I have three choices: 1) Leave, or 2) Go back to swinging and do it aggressively, because she is going to try to satisfy her desires for illicit sex somehow, so it might as well be out in the open. 3) Just accept that she loves me but can't be truly faithful and leave her to her own private live, whatever form it may take.

I know there are people on this site who have been surveyed, who said that if they had to stop swinging they would leave their marriages. Or, that swinging was the answer to them constantly cheating on each other. Now, I enjoyed swinging. I liked having sex with another woman and I enjoyed watching her have sex with another man. I didn't want to stop swinging. But I still felt the pain of being cheated on and I didn't want to reward bad behavior.

So... what makes a women who claims to love her husband and value their marriage and their future, crave wild sex with others so greatly that she HAS to taste contact with other somehow (live dirty stories, whatever)? Is not swinging the right thing because to do so is rewarding bad behavior? Or, should I accept that she can't be truly faithful and make that part of our relationship?

Let me mention, that before we were married, she had never been in a completely closed relationship, and had a lot of fun, and open sex in college. When we were married, she committed to me, but she has no problem with me having whatever sex I want, wherever I want it, and just wishes ( I think) that I felt the same, though she understands why I don't.

I love my wife, and I know she loves me. I enjoyed us having sex with others. Why should it be so hard to just open things up and eliminate the problem that way? Part of me has no problem with it. The other part of me would like to see a little sexual devotion/fidelity from her in exchange. To know that, if we walked away from swinging forever, it would be enough that it's just the two of us. I'm kind of tired of the stolen kisses (and aparantly more) that she has indulged. And the lip service paid to how hurt I am and how tired I am of not trusting her while she keeps doing things that make her worthy of my distrust (like secret emails/IMs). But, I think if I want to keep her, I will have to let her do what she wants.

Lastly... I know, I know, "therapy, therapy, therapy,". Been there, done that, can't afford any more. Plus, love and devotion are not in question. I trust in my heart of hearts that her heart and soul belong to me. But, her pussy (mentally and sometimes physically) seems to belong to whomever pushes the right buttons. That's what I have to figure out how to live with/without. After 13 years, it's hard to make that decision. Fortunately, we have no kids.


Thanks for listenting. Sorry for the book.

[HotCoupleGnS]

Well I have only been married for 4 years, so I don't have a lot of experience on this topic. My opininon my not be the one that everyones else has. But I am gonna tell you anyways.

I am sure you have read here many times, swinging is not the answer to fixing a marriage. If my hubby was doing the same thing your wife was doing I don't know what I would do. I know what I wouldn't do, that is swing! I would demand that he be faithul to me. It woldn't matter to me that he wasn't actually having sex. Having someone touch you & kiss you is cheating. I even think that talking to people on the interent in the manner you said you wife is, is cheating. ANYTHING that your spouse does behind your back is cheating to me.

I feel that if my spouse loved me then they wouldn't need any "starnge", whatever it may be. No cyber sex, no stolen kisses, none of it. I would basically tell my spouse this is the way it needs to be, if you don't like it then you need to leave. You don't deserve that kind of treatment. You deserve to be loved the way tht you love someone. I know it sounds rude or hars, but if she can't give that to you, then she must not love you the way she says she does. You should be enough for her. I know that no matter what, if I ever told my hubby that I didn't want to do this anymore, he would walk away & never look back.

Swinging isn't about getting laid as much as you possibly can. It might be to some people, but I think the majority would agree that it isn't. Swinging is about something a couple does together, wether it be in the same room or not. But they do it together & share the experience in one way or another. Swinging is about taking already great realtionaships & making them better. It is about making that bond & that trust even stronder. I think for people that don't understand this, don't belong in the lifestyle.

I would do anything in the would to work it out with my huby. But there is only so much that one person can take. All you can do is try your hardest, tell your spouse what you feel & that the things she is doing are hurting you. If she loves you, then she should have no problem stopping. If she has some sort of addiction there are real places to go & get help. If she loves you she should be willing to do whatever it takes to make you happy & your marriage work.

My 2 cents for the day!

[wrnakedru]

WOW! I had been wondering what had transpired since last we heard from you. It seems that you have done a reasonably thorough job here of bringing us up to date, and giving a synopsis of your situation for those who have not read your prior posts.

You requested that we not get bogged down in analysis of the details, so I won't. I think you will handle things in a manner you are most comfortable with, so I don't feel compelled to mince words.

For me, the biggest issue here, regardless the cause or justifiability of your feelings, is the lack of trust. A relationship becomes seriously compromised when trust has been breached.

I do not believe a relationship can survive and thrive without repair to the trust. If left unresolved, it can manifest itself into a lack of respect for your partner. Worse yet, it can also become the source for a lack of self esteem.

Only you [and/or the two of you] can determine if the trust can be repaired. You would need to examine what it would take to turn things around. And whether or not you could truly put the past behind you and allow trust to grow again.

IMO, without trust the relationship has no future and will only bring pain to you.

WR

I would tell her when you are chatting with her as "someone else" that it is you she has been chatting with.
Then EVERYTHING would be out on the table. Nothing left to hide or deny.

I personnaly would not be able to stay in a relationship where trust has been so violated.

If it was me...after I told her it has been me she was chatting with I would tell her to pack her shit and get out. <- this is NOT my advice to you. It is just simply what I would do given your situation.

Good luck in your relationship & I hope you everything works out for the best.

[JustAskJulie]

The biggest problem I see here is a lack of trust and communication. She isn't being on honest with you and I don't think that will change if you give her what she wants by opening things back up to swinging. There are bigger problems here than whether or not she is allowed to get some on the side and swinging should never be an option chosen in an attempt to "save your marraige".

I would suggest that you confront her and let her know that it was you she was talking to on IM and remind her of all that she said to you. From what you have said here I have a feeling she will deny much of it as "stuff she made up to tantalize the person on the other end of the IM", but you can't let her off with that. Until she begins to be honest with you then your marriage really is doomed and she needs to understand that. And you need to know that YOU and your relationship with her are more important than a little action on the side.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

Lastly... I know, I know, "therapy, therapy, therapy,". Been there, done that, can't afford any more.

If I was in your position I would sell the house, the cars or what ever was need to get the help needed to save my marriage.

What is it going to cost you if you don't?

Swinging is not the answer for you two at this point or maybe ever in your life from what I have read here.

[LikeMinds321]

I see your wife's attachment to internet sex as an obsession, even maybe an addiction, like alcoholism or gambling. It has gotten out of control and is negatively affecting your marriage.

If you have seen other patterns of obsession in her, then you can judge if my thoughts have any merit.

I agree with Mr Naughty that you should let her know it is you she has been chatting with online, BUT I WOULD NOT DO IT THROUGH THE CHAT. This is something that deserves face to face discussion. Sit down with her and pour your heart out about your pain.

Can you really continue to live like this?

Once you have your answer, you will know what to do.

I wish you well.

LM

[Alura]

Sitting here, pondering all this, Incommunicado, I've asked myself how I would react if my situation with Mrs. Alura were the same. I've decided there is nothing I wouldn't do to save our marriage.

If swinging were really that important to her, I would comply, but I'd comply while trying to learn why it is so important and whether or not swinging could really take the place of illicit sex, which is very exciting to some people. Perhaps its the secrecy that entices her. What is it about the on-line flirting that attracts her? What exists in your relationship that causes her to fear sharing her innermost thoughts with you?

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Maybe a compromise would be for you to sit beside her while she has her fun on line, being an active part.

If she's been cheating by flirting on line, you've been crossing the line of trust by entraping her.

I'd take her out to dinner in a restaurant where y'all can talk and bring up the subject. In an atmosphere where you can't jump up and scream, you're both more likely to listen and learn.

My goal would be to come to an agreement that we wouldn't hide anything from each other again and, from that day forward, our primary goal would be the salvaging of our marriage. Together. If swinging is to be involved to satisfy the "itch," well, hell, that ain't all that bad, is it?

Mr. Alura

[biblonde]

I see this as simple CHEATING!!..She is doing stuff behind your back that is hurting you. I agree with others confront her that you are the one she is chatting with face to face. If you kept your archives print them so there is no he said she said problem. You may love her with all your heart but as i see it she doesnt respect you. Personally I would move on, do you really feel all the pain is worth it. I know I chatt online alot BUT..hubby reads everything!!! knows everything!! It is called trust! Once broken it is one of the hardest things to get back and without it there is no happy marriage. Also getting into swinging to try give her an outlet is not the answer. If she is already doing this behind your back i dont think she will stop that part if you let her swing. IT is not the answer. Gaining trust and her being honest is the answer to your problem.
I truely wish you the best of luck and I think deep down in your heart you know what you need to do.

my 2 cents for the day!

[Alura]

Gaining trust and her being honest is the answer to your problem.

This is absolutely the core, Biblonde!
Dito

Mr. Alura

I totaly agree with those who say that they would do anything to save their marriage.

But there comes a point where self respect has to take over.You never want to loose that. If you loose your self respect while trying to save your marriage and you still loose your marriage you have nothing left. Walking away with your self respect in tact is an imprtant thing. Dont compromise it. Unfortunately not every marriage is saveable.

[Some4mealot4her]

[Pride goes before destruction]

Personally I would admit I am fearing the worst for the marriage, and perhaps now, in light of all the facts exposed and on the table from both of you, I would admit perhaps a twinge of jealousy. Yes. Then tell her you love her but give one final ultimate demand. She may leave a while...but if you tell it like is ... then I've got a hunch she'll go 'play' awhile, start feeling empty about it...and come crawling back ...and that's when you unconditionally forgive her...in your mind. She'll know it. Then maybe you too can work back to trust from the ground up. THEN if she 'blows' it again (poor choice of words ..i know) you know for ABSOLUTE CERTAIN...that your done with her.

that is my option...I love my wife...and would afford her more than one chance...but not too many more than that...

"The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiousity has it's own reason for existence".
Al Einstein

[HotCoupleGnS]

There are so many different opinions on here. Each person agrees with one person on one thing, but disagress with then next!

I agree with doing anything to save your marriage. But I also agree with saving your self respect. I agree woth confronting her, but I would do it in person. It might do her some good to see your pain. I do not agree with swinging. In your own words, you would be rewarding her. Why do things you aren't comfortable with to save a marriage that the other doesn' seem to want?

Bottom line, talk to your wife, tell her how you feel. LISTEN to what she is saying about why she does what she does. See if there is anyway for you both to compromise, but don't compromise your self dignity. If she loves you she will at the very least meet you in the middle.You just need to decide what you are willing to sacrifice, & what you are not.

I wish you the best of luck! This is a horribe situation for anyone to be in. I feel your pain & hope that it is resoved soon! Good luck!

[ALilOEverything]

Speaking from experience I have found that starting marriage counseling individually and fixing problems in one's self before fixing the problems as a couple works much more effectively. Several years ago we had some serious issues and the counselors decided to have us see seperate therapists alone first, fix ourselves and work on our problems as individuals, then later had us merge together and then work on the marriage together. My marriage has never been more solid since. I definitely had some internal issues I had to deal with and so did he and it was so much better to do it 1 on 1 and not have the therapy complicated by the input of my husband. He felt it was just as effective for him. Once we started to see the counselor together we felt more like whole people and then worked to build a solid foundation of communication. It was the best money we have ever spent and most well spent time in my life. Our problems weren't quite the same as yours but I feel your wife may have issues in which she could benefit from seeing a therapist one on one. And you probably have all this hurt, jealousy, anger in which you could benefit from one on one too. I believe if you can fix the problems in yourself first you may be able to fix the problems in your marriage. I don't believe that sex with other people should ever be a compromise in a marriage.

[Elusive BiFem]

Sexual addiction. That's what I think.

- EBF