Is it just me, or is my wife out of control?

[Yummi]

Wow. In my opinion, there is going to be way too much baggage to stay together. I understand that people make mistakes. But how many chances can you give her? I know that if I cheated on my hubby, I might get a second chance but that's it. Likewise, if he cheated I'd give him another chance but after that forget it! She has shown a total lack of respect for you and your wishes, not once but several times. I don't blame you at all for spying...any person that did the stuff she did should expect to get spied on. I think that if you stay together, you will always wonder about what she's doing behind your back. One of the worst things about being cheated on is feeling stupid, like you were the last to know. Mr. Alura said that he would do whatever it took to keep his marriage together...thing is, Mrs. Alura would never disrespect him that way. Especially not repeatedly!! I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide.

[incommunicado]

Thanks gang, I really appreciate the support. And, to those that say hang in their, I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel (though I probably should be).

Three key things happened to help put things in perspective. 1) Yesterday, my wife made it clear to my online character, that this was like porn to her. Merely fantasy material for solo sex, and that's all. That there would not be a meeting unless or until the time came that her husband open the door to swinging again, and, even then, only if my character could bring a friend to share. 2) She made it clear, as she revealed her indiscretions, that the two affairs both occurred during a time when our relationship was suffering immensely and she was not in a good place. No excuse, mind you, but it puts the second affair in the same timeframe and under the same circumstances as the first. 3) She made it clear again late this afternoon, when I tried to coax her, that, were she single she would have already met me for coffee. But, she is married with 13 years of relationship and will not risk it, both because of what she would stand to lose, and because of the hurt it would cause me if I knew. When I said, why not, since she was already breaking the online dirty talk rule? She said, that's just talk.

Now, I understand those of you who don't approve of the internet sex. I don't really either. But, my main concern what less the interactive nature than what could come of it. I got her pretty hot and bothered and very curious about me, and believe me when I say I know when my wife is turned on. And she still refused, without reservation, to meet me, every time I tried to steer her in that direction. So, even if I'm not keen on her outlet, the part I was worried about doesn't seem to be the concern I thought it was.

A good friend of mine made some interesting comments. First, he made clear that, one affair or two, they both came from the same timeframe in our lives, nearly two years ago, when our marriage was failing and she was weak. That timeframe has been apologized for and is past. The issue is the online behavior and, he asked if this was really a fair test, since, 1) It's actually me seducing her, so she's really having an online interaction with ME and 2) Since I know all the right buttons to push, even if she agreed to meet me, isn't that unfair from the start, since it puts her in a position of even greater weakness. I thought that was an interesting point of view.

Also, and this is by no means, meant to sound like a rationalization, but, if she asked me to stop downloading and reading dirty stories online, I would probably just say yes and then get more discreet about it, for the same reasons I know she has done that with her online outlet. Because she doesn't feel it's a threat, and it's something that she enjoys. Is this considerate of my feelings on the subject, no. It bypasses them. But, as I've reallized in my attempts to take her from online seduction to the real thing, it really isn't a threat, since she refused me repeatedly. She even made repeated attempts to tone down the sexual nature of the conversations, so as to be more in keeping with the rules she is supposed to obey. So maybe it's worth overlooking for now. The jury's still out, but I'd like to be able to sleep at night and spend my energy elsewhere.

By the way, my friend said, that, since it is me. If she did agree to a meeting I should go surprise her, and seduce her for real.

[Brit_Pair]

From the sounds of it, if this lady's libido were wired into the national grid, she'd be powering Flagstaff by herself!

[Spoomonkey]

First - let me say that the fact that trust has been broken is the biggest issue. That is the element in the lifestyle that makes swinging possible. I can be comfortable with Mrs Spoo "doing her thing" because I trust her without question. And I'd like to believe that this feeling is the same from her perspective. She knows - by experience - that if something makes her uncomfortable, she doesn't even have to explain why... that something is dropped.

We have a couple that we enjoy, but something about the female (who is incredible, by the way) just doesn't sit well with my wife. She has tried to explain why it bothers her, and she has wrestled with it, because to her it just doesn't seem like a good enough reason to not play with them again. My response - it doesn't matter. That feeling of "I'm not quite sure" is enough for me. I want to know I can count on her to show me the same respect.

Without that kind of trust, there is absolutely no way that we would survive the lifestyle.

On the other hand...

I can see the potential for a positive outcome here. The fact that she has been quite forceful in rebuffing your on-line personas suggestions for a face to face meet says that what she likely has is an addiction to the porn aspect of the whole thing, but a commitment to what you two have.

Your friend said an interesting thing - if she meets you, seduce her for real. The problem is, to me, if she did choose to meet you, all bets are off. The wall between fantasy and cheating has (even in her definition) been crossed. (This sounds like the Pina Colada song...)

She is very likely conflicted and unhappy with herself about all of this. I am guessing that she wants to make it work, but is being overcome by her desires. Men have this problem more than women. They love their wives, but the flesh is weak...

I wonder if there is a way that you could turn this situation into a lifestyle that is mutually satisfying for both of you? Use her weakness as a sexual strength that increases your chemistry. Have you ever watched "The Secretary"? Great flick about two people with some serious issues who find each other... They end up being one of the hottest love stories I've ever seen - not by changing into Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan - but by embracing the truth about who they are and living with it, without guilt, in a way that is mutually explosive.

Let's say you use what you know as a way to seduce her... Start dropping hints that you know who she is... Allow the on-line play to be hot for you - buy into it - and use it as a way to spring into a more exciting, sexual marriage. Build your trust around the good things she has said, not the weak things she has done. And then - when you think that the time is right, tell her you are going to meet her anyway - and just drop it...

Then - over dinner out or even a romantic evening at home - bring out a transcript of her pledging her devotion to you. Tell her that you are not her husband tonight, but Mr. On-line, and she has the permission to do what ever she wants to you - her husband said it was okay...

Then just let the wheels turn.

I would bet money that she struggles within herself about what she is doing. I'll bet she doesn't like it very much. But there is something there that makes her very unique and special and if you could mine that - figure it out - then maybe you two could not just save the marriage, but grow it into something electric.

How that would or would not translate into involvement in the lifestyle, I don't know. That is for you guys to discover. But this whole thing doesn't sound nearly as dismal as you might think. There is good stuff to work with here.

Spoomonkey

PS - I know the suggestion that I am making is left field, but my thought is that maybe there should be an alternative to hashing it out angrily or causing more hurt. I also know that your doing the above stuff would take a hell of a lot of forgiveness and love. I doubt I'd be forgiving enough to follow my own advice. But - you've tried counseling, arguing, seperation, etc. Maybe something just a little different is what you need. And - you have to admit - the night you "come out" as Mr On-Line - you'd probably get the sex of your life... Or - at least - that is what I am crossing my fingers for...

[HotCoupleGnS]

Spoomonkey that is some of the best advice I have heard. I am not even in the situation, but was totally blind to an idea like that. You have made me look at things (in this situation & in others) in a whole new light!

[incommunicado]

Mr. Spoomonkey has an excellent idea. I am already going down that path. I came up with an excuse to talk about the bad things that have happened over the past year, without revealing myself as her latest, potential, online outlet. We talked about the affair (the one I am privy to), and the flirting and online interaction with friends and strangers. I talked with her about my concerns and insecurities, that her online actions could lead to real ones. But, that I understood that wouldn't happen and wanted to trust her and not stifle her. I said I understood that the reason she had initially ignored my concerns was because she knew it wasn't a threat to us and would probably not give up my own porn or dirty stories, had she asked me to. I suggested that she be allowed to do as she pleased online, provided she promised never to meet anyone without permission and with the understanding that she would keep copies of her online conversations and we would read them together periodically for our mutual stimulation. I also stated that I would bring the stories or videos or whatever I found online for my own private enjoyment, to bed with us. That way, we have our own, autoerotic pleasures, but no secrets and our private pleasure becomes part of our mutual pleasure. She seemed very open to the idea.

I will give it some time and work on the rest. But, I agree that this has the potential to be turned around.

[mxdtxn774]

Incommunicado,

I can say without a doubt that we are in the exact same boat. I know exactly how bad it hurts to find out that the one you love most in this world has hurt you the greatest. It has always been my opinion that death would be preferrable to betrayal. Having said that, it will not be an easy path to take to get your marriage back to where it should be. But you have already begun the journey. I would echo the advice of others who have replied to say that swinging would be the wrong thing to do right now. And to those who replied that you should only forgive "x" amount of times before calling it quits, remember this is his decision to make. If he forgave one time or a hundred, it will not make him weak for doing so. It only makes him stronger, as his resolve for making this marriage work increases. I can only hope that your wife will see just what she is about to lose before it is too late. I hope for the best and please keep us updated.

[BradAndJanet]

incommunicado, I do see some chance this can be saved, and I wish you the best in working it out.

If you ever do reveal you have been the one seducing her online, be very careful how you do it. She may feel betrayed and that you do not trust her. I would advise that you do not tell her and allow the relationship to fade away. In my opinion, you are playing with fire here.

She needs to be honest with you about her online activities. If this is stimulation she needs and you can 'participate' to some level, then I think it has the potential to improve your relationship. You have to make sure she feels that she can be honest with you, too.

In short, secrets should not be kept between lovers...

-B

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally Posted by mxdtxn774

Incommunicado,

I can say without a doubt that we are in the exact same boat. I know exactly how bad it hurts to find out that the one you love most in this world has hurt you the greatest. It has always been my opinion that death would be preferrable to betrayal. Having said that, it will not be an easy path to take to get your marriage back to where it should be. But you have already begun the journey. I would echo the advice of others who have replied to say that swinging would be the wrong thing to do right now. And to those who replied that you should only forgive "x" amount of times before calling it quits, remember this is his decision to make. If he forgave one time or a hundred, it will not make him weak for doing so. It only makes him stronger, as his resolve for making this marriage work increases. I can only hope that your wife will see just what she is about to lose before it is too late. I hope for the best and please keep us updated.

Personally, mxdtxn774, I don't agree with some of the advice offered. Different strokes, different folks.

However, I do absolutely agree with your comments in terms of the number of times he should forgive before calling it quits. Your statement - "If he forgave one time or a hundred, it will not make him weak for doing so..." - a rather powerful thought we all need to keep in mind. Thanks for pointing that out.

- EBF

[Alura]

I like Spoo's idea but am still uneasy with misleading your spouse, whether it be the wife's not telling Incommunicado about the on-line flirtation or his not telling her that he is her fantasy lover. I'm amazed she's not caught on merely from his writing style; Mrs. Alura would recognize me in a heartbeat.

Brad has made some excellent points. I'd suggest you heed them well. His most important point is, in my opinion, "Lovers should not keep secrets."

The only question remaining, I suppose is, "Do you like Piña Colladas?"

Mr. Alura

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by BradAndJanet

I would advise that you do not tell her and allow the relationship to fade away. In my opinion, you are playing with fire here....

In short, secrets should not be kept between lovers...

-B

Brad-

There's a contradiction in what you say.

I see this as a positive sign, in that each of us, when open and willing, can see where there can be more than one way of handling a situation.

There are some things we experience as individuals which cannot, or should not, ever be shared with anyone--even our most beloved spouse.

LM

[curious24]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

Sexual addiction. That's what I think.

- EBF

that is exactly what i was thinking too.

if i were in your position i would do research on sexual addiction and see if she is showing any signs of that.. if she is then i would do research on what doctors in your area are good in that area.. then i would approach her about it in a nice way as to not offend her and see what she says and maybe you can get her to a doctor that can tell you if she has a problem or not. if she does well you know what you need to do next and that is to help your wife over this problem. if she doesn't then you have got quite a big decision on your hands.

but i would definately without a doubt look into the sexual addiction aspect of this before i did anything.

check out this site it has a lot of helpful things about sexual addiction.

http://www.ncsac.org/

since you know your wife so well you can take this test as if you where her and see if she might have a problem.
(scroll down the page for links to test)
http://www.ncsac.org/addicts/addict_self_test.aspx

very helpful stuff.

[HotCoupleGnS]

I don't think you did anything wrong by acting as though you were soemone else online. But as for not telling her for fear that she will think that you don't trust her, what is wrong with that? You shouldn't & she should know that!

Good luck with your marriage & I hope everything works out for you either way it goes.

[BradAndJanet]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

... There's a contradiction in what you say. ...

I know that... Quite a paradox, but it illustrates the tangled web we weave. Better to never start down that road, don't you think?

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

... There are some things we experience as individuals which cannot, or should not, ever be shared with anyone--even our most beloved spouse. ...

That is a deep philosophical statement that I would like to discuss with you over a bottle of wine or two someday. I'm not sure if I agree or not, but you may try to convince me...

-B

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

There are some things we experience as individuals which cannot, or should not, ever be shared with anyone--even our most beloved spouse.

LM

I wrote this not thinking about sex, or swinging at all. I was thinking about my belief that we all have things we have experienced in life that we choose not to share with others. Sometimes because they would hurt too much to verbalize, other times because it may hurt someone else.

LM