Upset because husband wants us to stop swinging

[wolfnblu]

We were meeting people, things were progressing along nicely.
Then I realized that something he was doing made me uncomfortable...I was getting snippy every time he would do it.
So I told him about it, and asked that he not do it.
He agreed for about a week, but now has rebelled and told me that it won't work like that.....me being able to do this thing, but him not being allowed to.
I said I'm sorry, but that that is the only way it CAN work, because I'm just not comfortable with him doing it.
So he said we're done, then.
So we're done.
(you really think so?)

So now we're both a little pissy with each other....him at me for putting this restriction/ultimatum on him, and me with him for his turnaround and ultimatum on me.

He wanted to delete our profiles on the swinger sites, but I told him I'd put too much work into it and that he could not delete them. I really think that we will eventually work this out and be back. So I told him to just let them lay dormant for a while and that neither of us should go to the sites to check mail, communicate with others, or even perv the profiles.

So, I haven't been there all day. I'm down. I feel like my new favorite toy has been taken away from me. I didn't go to the gym this morning....instead I ate two chocolate long john donuts....and Doritos for lunch. I don't even want to look at all the new sexy clothes websites that I've recently found and have been excited about ordering from, for upcoming lifestyle events (that we've already paid for, I might add). I tried to cancel an order I placed - that he INSISTED I place - for a tshirt that says, "I have the pussy, so I make the rules." He insisted that I order it on Friday (today is Monday). I told him this morning that I was going to cancel it because a) it was stupid, b) it wasn't true, and c) I won't have any place to wear it since we aren't going to be going to any clubs or anything anymore.

Yes, I'm pouting. I'm not happy.
Just venting, I guess.
But yes, I am fully aware that if one is not okay with the limitations that the other one puts upon them, that it's ok to say "I'm/we're not going to play under those rules." It just sucks that he said okay at first, and then a week later he's not okay with it.

[ItTakes3]

The answer is easy, the implementation may not be. Both of you stop pouting and being snippy. Then discuss it like adults. Whatever the decision turns out to be, it will likely involve some compromises from both of you.

[BodyScape02]

It would help if we knew exactly "WHAT" it is you are talking about... all in all ... it makes little sence when you are so vague... no one can help you.

This board is a great source of "been there, done that" wisdom... give us a chance.

All I can say from what you wrote is: ultimatums do not a dialogue make... and you need to have a dialogue to have effective communication.

My heart goes out to you...


~Cat

[Honey_Tampa]

Originally Posted by BodyScape02

All I can say from what you wrote is: ultimatums do not a dialogue make

Is there any better wisdom than Yoda wisdom?

Great post Cat and I second it.

[wolfnblu]

We had dialogue when I told him about it making me uncomfortable. I talked through my feelings, out loud to him, when I realized that I was getting snippy every time he would do this. I knew that it wasn't fair to him....but the fact is that I felt that way, whether it's fair or not. So I owned up to it, told him it made me uncomfortable, and said that I preferred he not do it. He was understanding about it, although not really thrilled to be asked to stop, but agreed to. Then, now, a week or so later, it's not okay with him.

Gah.

Yes, I guess it's a classic case of what's good for the goose....etc. But who says that in order to be fair, all things have to be equal? What if one person is more comfortable and relaxed, needs fewer restrictions placed on their partner than the other? Should they play tit for tat and place those restrictions on their partner anyway, because those restrictions are being placed upon them? JUST BECAUSE? When, if left to their own devices, would not feel the need to place those restrictions upon their partner, but is doing so just so things are "equal?" I say different people have different comfort levels, and just because things aren't equal doesn't mean it can't work...doesn't mean it's not fair.

[WesternSwing]

Dito. I need a bit more information to really understand what is going on. Please fill us in. And, ultimatums never work. An ultimatum is "a final statement of terms made by one party to another" and is not open for discussion. Not a good thing if you want to get somewhere with someone. In swinging especially everything has to be a two-way discussion.

Mr. WS

[wolfnblu]

Sorry, but I'm afraid to say what it is...mostly because I think you all are going to tell me that I'm not ready for swinging. I want to do this, but I want to do it like our first time - I had total - 1000% control over the situation, down to the point where I told him to put his dick in her. It was understood and agreed by him and her that I could say stop at any time. I didn't, it was very exciting to me.....but now he wants to remove that control, and it scares me.

[wolfnblu]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

An ultimatum is "a final statement of terms made by one party to another" and is not open for discussion.
Mr. WS

Well, yes exactly. What else are you supposed to do when you absolutely will not tolerate an activity because it makes you so uncomfortable?

[WesternSwing]

Well, it may be intolerable, but you still need to discuss it, not just say "this is the way it is, take it or leave it" unless you are prepared for the other party to leave it and not take it.

Has he violated this rule, or are you making the ultimatum in advance? If it's in advance you have no reason to be so steadfast on it. It's still in the discussion phase.

I'm not going to say that you are not ready for swinging, but I will say from the sound of it that maybe you're a bit of a control freak. Your husband is a person to, and not something to be played with and manipulated for you to have your fun. What he heard was "we are going to do it this way or not at all." It doesn't sound like you discussed it with him at all. It was your choice and your choice alone. It sounds like you need to have all the control to have fun, but what's in it for him? Maybe he doesn't want to be controlled. Maybe he wants to be trusted.

Swinging is an activity for both of you to enjoy, not just one of you.

You two need to discuss it, not make demands on each other. You'll work it out, but the dust needs to settle a little first.

Mr. WS

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by wolfnblu

Sorry, but I'm afraid to say what it is...mostly because I think you all are going to tell me that I'm not ready for swinging.

If that is the case then maybe you already know the answer. Maybe you are not ready to be doing this.

You can not come to people asking for advise when you only want to give them part of the story. That is just fishing for people to tell you what YOU want to hear.

Time to be honest with yourself and your Husband. You changed your mind now he is changing his and you don't feel it is fair. Seems something is not being said and is very one sided here.

Good luck.

[Sweet_Candy]

Let me see if I understand this. You want to be able to say "No" up to the act of penetration for him? There is nothing wrong with this but he has the same right with you. No is suppose to mean No and the speed that this is suppose to move at is the speed of the slowest partner. Am I confused? It would help with the advice if we knew what we were being ask to advise on. Tell us everything please.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by wolfnblu

We had dialogue when I told him about it making me uncomfortable. I talked through my feelings, out loud to him, when I realized that I was getting snippy every time he would do this.

Okay, this sounds like he is overstepping some predetermined boundries.

Originally Posted by wolfnblu

I knew that it wasn't fair to him....but the fact is that I felt that way, whether it's fair or not. So I owned up to it, told him it made me uncomfortable, and said that I preferred he not do it. He was understanding about it, although not really thrilled to be asked to stop, but agreed to. Then, now, a week or so later, it's not okay with him.

This is where you two have to decide what is going to be okay for right now. Doesn't always mean it will be that way. Over time, our list of "don'ts" has been shortened considerably.

Originally Posted by wolfnblu

Yes, I guess it's a classic case of what's good for the goose....etc. But who says that in order to be fair, all things have to be equal?

To be fair they don't, but eventually the scales must balance. Eventually to be fair it will have to be equal, maybe not right away, but eventually. If both of you want to remain in the Lifestyle bad enough then you do have to go at the pace of the slowest member, but, the slowest member must realize that they do need to work on those issues so eventually it is more equal, or the other will lose interest. If one is willing to give-up some activities, the slowest member must also be aware they are making concessions and possibly do something in return to compensate for them. Otherwise it is a one way street. No relationship works when the street only runs one direction. Every aspect of a relationship is a comprise. I don't know what to tell you will be the comprimise in this situation, but everybody needs to be happy with the situation for it to work.

Mr. WS

[Dave_kat]

I'm probably going to stick my foot in my mouth on this one, but from reading the posts and from some guessing, I'm getting that...

You have no problem enjoying another person outside the marriage, that you are completely comfortable with being both the center of attention as well as in complete control of the whole event. It seems to me that things had progressed to where you were both enjoying things and got jealous because he wasn't paying attention to your instructions, he was off (nearby) doing his own thing with someone else.

Same room swap sort of thing.

If I'm wrong you're more than welcome to hit me about the head and shoulders, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

But to throw out some advise on that. From his point of view, you're getting your cake and eating it too, whereas he is getting leftovers and table scraps. When he gets to move to the adult table next to you, you are not happy. And he's not backing down on being allowed to the table.

Ya'll need to talk. No ultimatums, no laying down the law. If you are going to do things together, enjoy things together, it has to suit both of your tastes. Doing things to totally suit one person is going to make the other very upset after a while.

You both need to seriously sit down and tell each other what you like and don't like about swinging, about sex, and then develop rules if needed to suit those. Rules both of you agree upon. If you can't find some middle ground, then take a step back.

Dave's view only, Kat will be beating me up later for going there on her own, once she reads this.

[wolfnblu]

I'm not going to say that you are not ready for swinging, but I will say from the sound of it that maybe you're a bit of a control freak. .......Maybe he doesn't want to be controlled. Maybe he wants to be trusted.

He has said both of those things. That I am a control freak, and that I should give him more credit than I do....trust him more. So you're probably right on target.

A little history...the first time we ever played with someone else, it was spontaneous. With a longtime girlfriend of mine. We were all drinking, and it was just the right time, right place, right thing for all of us to do. There was no penetration, she and I teased him mercilessly, and then she gave him a blowjob.

The second time was years later, with the same girlfriend. We had talked about inviting her to our bedroom (figuratively) for years, during lovemaking. It was very exciting to talk about. Finally, we decided to start calling her and flirting with her, made a "date" with her, until the point came where I just outright told her that I was okay with anything that she and he wanted to do. And I was. I wanted him to fuck her, I wanted to watch it and be part of it. And I was. But I was comfortable in the knowledge that I *could* stop it if I wasn't feeling okay with it. So....from the start - I controlled everything....especially WHO it was. It was my longtime girlfriend, I trusted her, and she had known us both for many years. It sounds shitty to say it, but I knew that I was the "alpha female"....superior to her IN HIS EYES in every way....and had nothing to lose.

The "thing" that I am talking about that this thread is all about is going to sound very trite, probably. Our arrangement, since he works all day and is gone, had been that I had been the one who would perv the profiles and browse the members, looking for suitable couples. When I found a couple whose profile showed a pic of the husband as well as the wife, and when I thought both of them were attractive to our standards - not just him, I looked at her, too even tho I am not bi, I know the general type that my husband is attracted to - and I would put them into our "Friends." There were MANY couples in there for him to "choose" from....we would talk about them and decide together who to contact and who to delete from "Friends."

That's not good enough for him. He now wants to be able to perv the profiles....go through all of them, looking for couples for us like I have been. But I don't like it. It makes me feel like he is "on the prowl", looking for someone to fuck. Which I guess he is, that is what this is all about, but I want to choose who he will fuck and who he won't. I guess I could have gone along with it and said he could, but in my heart I feel like I would have found some reason to disqualify any couple he found because I would know that SHE is the primary reason he selected them.

For 13 years we have been together, and he has never, NEVER made me jealous. Never even looked at another woman. I know you are saying, Yeah sure, he has looked, he's human. But honestly if he has, I never knew it. He has treated me like a princess, adored me, admired me, lusted after me, has made me feel like I am the only woman in the whole world who could turn his head.....and now suddenly I am supposed to be okay with him SEEKING OUT someone else to fuck?

I really am okay with him doing someone else with me present.....and with me involved with her husband at the same time.....but I think I will feel inferior or something to her if I don't pick her out.

And it's not like I put unattractive women in our Friends. They are, they are really attractive, as are their husbands. But for some reason, I feel the need to choose her, not let him choose her from the general public on the site. I have put like 20 or so couples into our friends, it's not like he didn't have anything to choose from.

So last night, when this all came to a head, he was surfing the site....catching up on emails that we had received during the day like always, and started reading the forums on the site. Not this site, on the ad site. Some girl on there had some amusing posts, so he perved her profile. He looked at all the pics in their Main/Public Gallery. He looked at all the pics in their restricted Gallery. He commented on their location. There were a couple of pics of her husband in there, and he asked me if I liked bald guys - which is sort of a joke between us because there seem to be an abundance of short, bald guys in this lifestyle around here - and I don't particularly go for short bald guys....just really taking too much of an interest in her for my liking. In the first place, they live like 2.5 hours from us, and he wouldn't even drive an hour away for an event that I wanted to go to last weekend because it was too far. Secondly, she is 28 years old, and we had not been looking at 20-somethings (we are 39 and 40). So I got snippy at him perving her when he was not supposed to be, had agreed not to do that. He got defensive. Fine! Fine! Blah.

It is a control thing, I know it.

[wolfnblu]

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

I'm probably going to stick my foot in my mouth on this one, but from reading the posts and from some guessing, I'm getting that...

You have no problem enjoying another person outside the marriage, that you are completely comfortable with being both the center of attention as well as in complete control of the whole event. It seems to me that things had progressed to where you were both enjoying things and got jealous because he wasn't paying attention to your instructions, he was off (nearby) doing his own thing with someone else.

Same room swap sort of thing.

If I'm wrong you're more than welcome to hit me about the head and shoulders, it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

But to throw out some advise on that. From his point of view, you're getting your cake and eating it too, whereas he is getting leftovers and table scraps. When he gets to move to the adult table next to you, you are not happy. And he's not backing down on being allowed to the table.

Ya'll need to talk. No ultimatums, no laying down the law. If you are going to do things together, enjoy things together, it has to suit both of your tastes. Doing things to totally suit one person is going to make the other very upset after a while.

You both need to seriously sit down and tell each other what you like and don't like about swinging, about sex, and then develop rules if needed to suit those. Rules both of you agree upon. If you can't find some middle ground, then take a step back.

Dave's view only, Kat will be beating me up later for going there on her own, once she reads this.

No, sorry....it's not like that. I just posted more info, hope that helps you all understand.

We haven't been naked with another couple yet. We've met one couple, made out with them kissing and stuff some. They contacted us. I was okay with that. We met another couple this past weekend, they also had contacted us. I seem to be okay with another couple if they contact us first. I just am not okay with him seeking out another couple for us to play with.