How can I open her to the idea of swinging?

[LadyCleo]

Originally posted by ricndi032903
Well it seems that "Elusive BiFem" doesn't like what I had to say, OH WELL, she has nothing to loose, no SO to leave or have leave HER. But then again, maybe she'll "fall in love with someones SO" like Sadie did. Or maybe a few more marriages will end due to someones over eagerness at trying to "get the wife/husband" into this, when the word NO is not taken seriously.

SHAME ON YOU!
I could not agree with EBF more! She hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned! And yes, *I* am married...
I chose not to respond to this thread with the exact words that EBF used because she had already posted what I was thinking too.
I think that your posts are disingenuous at best. There are much nicer ways to suggest to the poster that maybe he should take no for no but you'd rather throw insults around. Let's hope that when *YOU* need some assistance you don't get an asshole like yourself responding...

LC

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by ricndi032903
Well it seems that "Elusive BiFem" doesn't like what I had to say, OH WELL, she has nothing to loose, no SO to leave or have leave HER. But then again, maybe she'll "fall in love with someones SO" like Sadie did. Or maybe a few more marriages will end due to someones over eagerness at trying to "get the wife/husband" into this, when the word NO is not taken seriously.

As usual, you are quite presumptive in all that you say. I feel that I may have even more to lose in this lifestyle than some couples – just given the fact that I am in it – ALONE. As for falling in love with someone? Who would be the big loser there? I would. And what does this say about your personal self-esteem?

And it's true, if each person in the commited relationship are truely happy and content in that relationship and NOTHING is lacking, then there is NO reason to go outside of the relationship on the PYHSICAL level, for sexual satisfaction.

That is only YOUR truth. For others, it varies. Again, your presumptions come into play. Because something is apparently missing in your relationship does not equate to things missing in others relationships. Some people simply enjoy the friendship and sexuality they can share with others.

The wife or husband has EVERY right to refuse to consider this lifestyle if they feel it's intruding on his or her right to a loving, yet faithful relationship. While communicating is great, but if there is any objection to a certain topic, then that topic should be off limits in the act of persuing.

The spouse certainly has the right to refuse, but in most stable and committed and strong relationships, one can talk to the other about absolutely anything…including their desires and fantasies.

You may have have a passion for swinging, but the real passion should be about your wife or husband. Not your fantacies.

Another presumption on your part. Those that I have been fortunate to meet are quite passionate about each other. And part of that passion stems from their ability to share and communicate their desires and fantasies. Keywords: share and communicate

And even though I know I'll be slammed again for daring to say this, but somebody does, "almost" every woman in this lifestyle began by wanting to do this for their men, to make them happy, rather that then have them cheat.... they surely didn't get into this by their own choices.

I don’t know that that is an accurate statement, but assuming it to be, why not post a poll and simply ask the question…How many women continue to participate in this lifestyle because THEY enjoy it. I think you might be surprised at the answers.

It's goes this way, realistly, how many choices do we have, cheat? swing? cheat? swing? Cheat. face the unknown, swing, know what you really don't wanna know. But make the best of it. Or just be a happy couple who is satisfied and content with the one you chose to spend the rest of your life with. Ya know people, that's not such a bad thing......

For your way of thinking, maybe. But again…your presumptions are overwhelming. Reading the board for a year now, I’ve repeatedly noticed others, men and women, stating they would leave the lifestyle in a heartbeat if their spouse decided they didn’t want to participate. Whether you believe it or not, swinging is not the be-all, end-all for most. It is added pleasure to their relationships.

Now on another note, if I had a spouse or significant other to consider, and I was as opposed to swinging as you are, I don’t think I would be hanging around on a message board for swingers, nor would I be giving the mixed messages to my spouse/SO as you have apparently done. Further, if I was as opposed to swinging as you are and my spouse was adamant that we WOULD swing, I would leave. Simple as that. Not because of this single fact, but because he obviously did not think enough of me to respect my wishes and desires. I would know there was a much greater problem in the relationship – one having to do with values. His and mine. I mean, this isn’t like…”I like broccoli and he doesn’t.” However, I don’t think that would be the case. Somehow, I honestly believe I would be more than willing to at least discuss the topic and allow him to have his fantasies. Might I suggest that rather than being so critical of everyone on a Swingers Board and the lifestyle they have chosen for themselves... you spend some time learning about the lifestyle, reading the posts from those that are quite happy and content, and investigating the reasons you are unable to come to grips with and/or communicate with your partner about his desires and fantasies. After all...good relationships are built on communication and compromise.

- EBF

Edit: oh, well...I screwed up the bold stuff...and I worked soooo hard on it. Mrs. O?????

- Mrs. O

[yawanna]

Rather than antagonism - and believe me, I've been in that mood a time or two and that's exactly when it's stoopid to post - it's WAY more fun and informative and worthy of discussion to pose questions, interests, dilemmas, pet issues, silly fun stuff....than it is to egg on posters who are, with all due respect......

WAY out of your league

Do a search on your nickname and see how many times your concerns and issues have been addressed, how many times advice, resources, suggestions, and support have been offered to you.

What exactly is the result or outcome you are expecting from your participation here?

[sepacouple]

Ricndi, why are you even here, you continually whine, complain about, and generally ridicule people involved in this lifestyle.

You have made it clear that you don't want to be here yet you continue to post. If you don't agree with this lifestyle, then don't log onto this site.

Debating a topic is great and is one of the things that makes this site interesting. But, you have to be at least interested in hearing both sides of the topic. All you seem interested in is ridiculing anyone who does'nt feel the same as you do.

Sorry for this lecture, but I just had to get it off my chest.

[OhioCouple]

ricndi032903,

I took the opportunity to scroll through a few of your past postings. I shall assume that this is the female half of your couple, based on the inital posting of yours which can be found HERE. All of your postings seem to be based on negativity for the lifestyle. What may be repulsive to you, isn't to the majority of people who post here. And that is cool, cause swinging is not for everyone, nor does anyone here try to coerce another into it. We all give opinions based on our own experiences and you can choose to draw your own conclusions as to what is right for you. No one can determine that for you, just as you cannot determine it for any of us.

I think that it is pretty tasteless that you resorted to using EBF as an example as being one that has nothing to lose. She has everything to lose, as much as you or I do. I can't speak for all swinging females as I've only met one, and that one person is EBF, so I've no others to compare her to, however... She is as much like any of the rest of us, couples or singles that know the guidelines for swinging and has a healthy mind set. Not to say that she couldn't fall for someone, but for that matter, I couldn't say that about myself either. Again, equals in that comparison, however both of us have the healthy knowledge to know that should something like that ever begin to stir, we would back out of the situation, immediately and entirely. Swingers aren't out to break up relationships, they seek to only enhance them, and that isn't something you have quite yet grasped.

I'm sorry that your experience many years ago left a sour taste in your mouth, but remember, that is your opionion of how it was for you and doesn't speak for the rest of us.

It sounds to me as if you have major communication problems in your marriage that you need to work on and the 'push and shove' between the two, which needs immediate attention. That is something that we can't help you with here. You have to take that first step yourselves.

Mrs. O

[VegasLee]

"And it's true, if each person in the commited relationship are truely happy and content in that relationship and NOTHING is lacking, then there is NO reason to go outside of the relationship on the PYHSICAL level, for sexual satisfaction"


I love chili dogs, with or without onions. I do not have to add the onions for satisfaction but they do add something special to it.

Laura and I have been in the lifestyle for many years. We never have sex with someone else go get satisfaction that we do not receive from each other. She tells me that sex is always better between us anyway but she is a great women that I know loves me just the way I am.

There is lots of things we do in life to "add" to our life but that does not mean we are not fulfilled within our basic relationship.

The Swinging lifestyle is not for everyone, either are chili dogs. Being negitive about either does no one any good.

[Amy and Mike]

ricndi032903 said "And even though I know I'll be slammed again for daring to say this, but somebody does, "almost" every woman in this lifestyle began by wanting to do this for their men, to make them happy, rather that then have them cheat.... they surely didn't get into this by their own choices.

It's goes this way, realistly, how many choices do we have, cheat? swing? cheat? swing? Cheat. face the unknown, swing, know what you really don't wanna know. But make the best of it.

Or just be a happy couple who is satisfied and content with the one you chose to spend the rest of your life with."


OK......Hi, this is Amy. I really get confused by some of what people say here. Now I dont really know any swingers and their views (hubby and I are only curious at this point), but I can say that for me, all of the above is NOT true! It was me, not Mike who started talking openly about fantasies involving other people once I got the feeling that he would feel comfortable talking about it. That led to us thinking about maybe we would want to act on it.

I dont understand why you think that only non-swingers are "satisfied and content with the one you chose to spend the rest of your life with." We ARE a happy couple and are totally satisfied with each other! You say "It's goes this way, realistly, how many choices do we have, cheat? swing? cheat? swing? Cheat. face the unknown, swing, know what you really don't wanna know. But make the best of it. " But why do you think these are the only choices? I would never cheat on Mike and I don't think he'd ever cheat on me. That was never the reason we brought this up! We brought it up because we both get excited by the idea. I feel bad for you if your just going along with what your husband wants because your afraid that he'll cheat on you if you don't. That sounds like a dysfunctional relationship to me.

[Shinjovial]

Wow! I'm amazed at the response my question received. I posted before on another site and never received a response. Thank you all very much for providing your time and insight. I really appreciate it.

Apart from the scolding that RICNDI provided, everyone has great advice and I will take it all to heart. RICNDI has a point to, but I think it belongs is an AOL chat room and not here.

Well, I wouldn't have posted if we weren't experiencing some sort of discord over this. It has long bothered me and we got into an argument (before I posted) when I asked her if she would ever consider going to a swing club, just ot check it out (for the sake of discussion, it was her that brought up the topic by saying how her friend from work had a blind date and he took her to a swing club). When she said "no" to the club I asked why, curious to understand what bothers her. That's when the argument started.
We talked last night for the first time in two days and she still can't talk without being rotten. She now says that that part of me disgusts her and she's embarrassed of me wanting to talk about it and explore our feelings. So, it seems as if our problem is primarily communication and not swinging.
I know she has fantasies(black men, women) and I've made it clear that it doesn't threaten me and I'm willing to explore things with her. However, she seems content to keep that part of her secret, at least for now.
I would never leave her over something like not wanting to swing, but I will leave her when she can't talk about things with me. I believe in my right to explore who I am sexually, with or without her.

Those of you who are happy with swinging, thank your mates for their love and understanding.

[JustAskJulie]

Personally, I think that at this point you've let her know your interest and your best bet is to leave it at that. Slow down to her pace and if it's going to come up again in conversation let her be the one to bring it up.

If she mentions it in relation to other people then ask her more about the situation and try to draw her out.

To me it sounds like she may still be really conflicted about the idea and perhaps bothered internally at the idea that she MIGHT like the idea. Until she comes to terms with it on her own she's not going to react well to talking to you about it.

Continue to be supportive and open with all things with her and if / when she decides that she wants to investigate the idea of swinging let her come to you.

Remember one of the key rules in swinging is to always move at the pace of the slowest person. And in the end, swinging is NOT for everyone and it may not be something you get to experience at all, and you have to come to terms with that and hopefully your wife/ relationship with her is more important than any fantasy.

[Botcpl]

Shinjovial, the more you want something, the harder it is to get. Slow down and take your baby steps and let thoughts have the time they need. She feels uncomfortable about it so let her calm down before you bring it up again.

Waiting is.

If her friend was taken to a swingers club on a blind date, you might have some damage control you need to take care of. In my single days, I could never do that to someone I just met. Maybe after I got to know her some and knew she wouldn't mind, but what type of message was that guy sending?

My wife was all against all of this, but decided to go to a swing club to see how it was. We didn't play with anyone, but we liked all that was going on around us. Not that much sex, but a lot of sexuality. We were driving home she wanted to know when we were going back.

You can have fun without swapping. It's fun just watching people on the dance floor.

[sportz]

It could be that she was shamed in her past or feels that being with another person or wanting to be with another person (either you or her) sexually is shameful (or even that sex itself is shameful, a real problem!). People who are shamed are very unwilling to talk about the thing that makes them feel shameful. I'm not thinking that you can undo this damage that has been done. Professional help may be what's needed on her part to help her see that what you are requesting is in many cases very natural and nothing to be ashamed of. Our upbringing is very hard to overcome, especially those messages of unworthiness and unlovableness. Your unconditional love is the only antidote that may help, that is, letting her know that whatever and however she feels, you will still love her. She may not believe you at first, but experience is the best proof. Good luck, this may be a really tough issue to overcome, but when you do, the whole relationship should improve!

shame on you people and to think that just because ricndi offers a little bit of the why's a cpl shouldn't be obsessing on this matter and that there are certain risks to even approching your other half, you damn her to hell, that's not fair, and sorry but she does have a point, if one half of the cpl is against it, then the matter should be dropped, not forced and cohourced into doing to please the other half, and truth be told, I had been reading quite a few of these posts on the how to's and have decided that perhaps there is a danger in wanting something like this, and if the thought disgusts my wife the way I think it will, I'd rather stand up and be counted as a real man who can be happy with one woman and not be out to count the notches on the bedpost, cause if you all need this to be able to talk to your other halfs and have sex like mad, then this isn't for the normal people that like to be counted ammong that can say yes i have a monogmous marriage and I'm happy that way, and by the way, I love the hell out of my wife and feel down right ashamed that I could and would even think of this, or doing this to her, All I'd be doing is makeing her my whore and that she's not, thanks ric n di for at least having the balls to give a straight story on the real "what if's" and the real destruction this can cause, it's refreshing to heard someone that's not out promoting permissiable cheating.

signed,
just a guy in love.

[Elusive BiFem]

....professes this great love for his wife, would never do anything like "this" to her....would "feel down right ashamed that I could and would even think of this, or doing this to her," and on and on...

Yet...here sits gonefishing on a swingers board...reading the messages. But...make no mistake...he has no interest in the lifestyle.

Now, I ask, how is it that someone that wants to standup and be counted as a "real" man just "happens" to stumble across this board, join as a member...read the posts....

Am I the only one confused? Or could it be...he's living vicariously and his poor wife knows nothing of his sexual interests? Maybe someone can help me understand this.

And gonefishing...do a search...go back and read ricndi's posts...might open your eyes a little bit. Some of us grow weary of the constant negativity. While we welcome everyone who wishes to join and participate, some of us really don't appreciate the constant bombardment of negativity with OUR chosen lifestyle. Everyone is here by choice. If not interested, or repulsed by the lifestyle...go somewhere else more to your liking.
I mean...I'm a dog lover...don't like cats too much. But I don't go to cat sites and try to tell them how much I hate cats!
- EBF

[wvcouple4fun03]

what the hell are you doing on a site that promotes swinging if you have no interests. you seem to be full of crap, of course none of us swingers are in love with our spouse, right? wrong! we love our spouse well enough and have a stable, without jealousy, and open communication line to our souls. and if you really think about it, what is your wife secretly fantasizing about because she is afraid to share her views with you because you are so closed minded. maybe the first thought of swinging gives you the questionable fears, but if you think of it more than once then you certainly entertain the pleasures that are at your disposal. swinging is not a way to put notches on your belt, it is a way to give to your spouse the freedom to explore their fantasies by sharing them and enjoying them together. not just living a life that creates a fortress around your intimate feelings and desires. wake up! everyone can be like everyone else but to share your entire life and most secret desires and maybe even expeience a few of them together down the line is a great way to keep that flame burning high, not just a flicker, and also builds a strong and lasting relationship unshakable by mistrust and betryal. get a life and live a little.

[Alura]

[quote]Originally posted by gonefishing
cause if you all need this to be able to talk to your other halfs and have sex like mad,

We don't need to swing to be able to talk with our spouses, gonefishing. We're able to swing because we can talk to each other.

then this isn't for the normal people that like to be counted ammong that can say yes i have a monogmous marriage and I'm happy that way,

We have a monogamous marriage. We only make love with each other. We sometimes play with others. We're happy that way.

and by the way, I love the hell out of my wife and feel down right ashamed that I could and would even think of this, or doing this to her, All I'd be doing is makeing her my whore and that she's not, thanks ric n di for at least having the balls to give a straight story on the real "what if's" and the real destruction this can cause, it's refreshing to heard someone that's not out promoting permissiable cheating.

If you're ashamed, you need to be fishing, not hanging out on a board for those who are not ashamed.

signed,
just a guy in love.

...with a woman he's afraid to talk to...

Mr. Alura