Information before Swinging?

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by hmr
Well I really feel like we've been taken to task over this issue after Thursday nights Moderated chat.I wanted to take my time and think though this answer before posting, but here it is.
Mr hmr

Mr. hmr...this was not meant to take you to task in any way at all. In the first place, everyone goes about this in their own way, and therefore, their way can't be wrong for them. Regardless of the approach we use, I think most of us would have to admit we made some mistakes along the way, or in hind sight, would go back and do things differently.

I want to reply to your post, but just now, I'm too tired! But most importantly, and immediately, I wanted you to know that there is no right or wrong way...just different ideas about things.

I'll answer later - after a nap! And thanks for taking the time to respond and give much more info than the quick answers on chat.

- EBF

[Couplehavingfun]

1. Before your first club and/or play date experience, did you and your SO discuss swinging in any detail? Mind sharing some of the discussion material?

Yes, we discussed our fantasies (MMF, FF, MFF, group sex) and then started discussing whether we were on the same page with wanting to make the fantasy a reality. Once we knew we were, we set abot together to find out how. Imagine our happy surprise when we bumped into this fun world of swinging that we didn't know about before.

2. Before the club and/or play date, did you do any online research? Other type of research? Did you have a relatively accurate concept of what swinging was and what it was about?

Yes, we definitely did our homework. We were lucky, to have this site as well as others to read, look at, and learn some things from. It was/is such a help to have a place to post questions, or read questions we were having and others posted about, and read everyone's replies. Those swinging term dictionaries were a big help as well.

3. Before the club, etc., did you establish your personal boundaries? (and yes, we know they change with experience, but did you have some boundaries established going in?

Yes! We not only had set boundaries, but we had worked out signals, so we could tell what the other person wanted, needed, or was feeling while conversing with others.

4. Did any of ya'll just walk into a club or social or other type of situation feeling totally unaware of what swinging was about?

No.

5. Any other information you would care to share?

We both think having signals is a great tool in this lifestyle.


Mare

[Elusive BiFem]

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Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
I'll answer later - after a nap! And thanks for taking the time to respond and give much more info than the quick answers on chat.
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Wow! What a nap! Almost 24 hours - literally. But it felt good.

Moving right along...Mr. hmr was feeling as if he was being taken to task following last Thursday nights chat in which the topic was swinging with newbies - would you or not, and if not, why not, etc. The discussion somewhat centered on the fact that some people enter swinging with no idea of what it is about, the rules of the game, etc. hmr indicated they had just jumped right in with esentially no preliminary research. I found this to be amazing and later posted this thread.

If anything, this thread was prompted by my feeling that I needed to take myself to task. I sincerely believed that everyone even considering swinging would "research" the subject thoroughly. I was thinking, erroneously, of the availability of information on the internet. It was pointed out that for some, swinging began long before the advent of the internet and there really wasn't much information available other than in certain magazines, etc., (which I have never seen). Also, it was mentioned that not everyone had access to a computer. Another thing I had not thought of. To bolster my position, I made some off the wall comment about "everyone" has access to a computer, but really, thinking of it, it has only been in recent years that that statement would hold true. Even I didn't have a home computer until '98 and then, not until '00 did I have one with enough power/speed to really "research." The old 75 Pentium's just didn't pull up those sites too easily.

hmr made this statement:

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Now, not knowing that any thing like this existed, how were we to know to find it? I was even a reader of "Penthouse letters" which discusses many of the aspects of swinging, But never said anything about swingers groups.
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...and it makes a lot of sense when I think of it. He is right. If you don't know something exists, you don't know to look for it, and certainly, you don't know the words to use to "research" the topic.

Another comment...
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Now, does this make us foolsand/or ignorant? Fine if it does, because we were comfortable with it and had each other for backup. In fact after being on this board and seeing the way some people won't play with newbies and some newbies get flamed, had we done all this research, I'm not sure if we would be swinging at all yet.
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I find that interesting, as I have wondered myself, something similar. When I first started researching, I read a bunch of stuff, found a couple with mutual compatibility, and moved forward from there. We were both "newbies," save for my single experience 20 years prior with a couple that were my best friends. However, there was no discussion of rules, boundaries, etc., other than just general discussion. Looking back, I honestly wonder if I had seen this board and many of the post, if I would have pursued this interest. After all, I didn't have a check list of sorts...with all these rules and boundaries and likes and dislikes. Maybe the 3 of us were simply lucky that things worked out so well. In other posts, I have alluded to the fact that for me, much of this seems so "clinical" and contrived when one has to go through so many steps...have we communicated enough with each other? have we communicated enough with the partner(s)? have we established rules? what are their rules? boundaries?....the list just goes on and on. And I believe I have stated in the past...this should be fun and not work. If I haven't, there is the statement. The other thing I beieve I've previously mentioned is my thought that all of these rules and boundaries are subject to change with time as one becomes more comfortable and familiar with their environment. Advice is constantly given...stick to your rules...well, maybe for that particular occasion. But what about going home and reassessing your rules and boundaries as you feel more comfortable? Isn't that important, too? And really, do we ever say that? Rarely. hmr's comment fits right here:
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Again, though, we did not know all the questions to ask.
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A very true statement...until you have the experiences, you don't know what to ask or what to even think of.

Another very valid comment by hmr...
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Yes. Are we "guilty" of going in blind. I guess you could say we did. However there is a lot to be said for not overanalyzing things to the point of not doing anything. In the navy we called it analysis paralysis- you analyze so much, you never do anything.
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The point of the entire chat was would you play with newbies because. Some felt no...due to bad experiences, they don't have their boundaries, etc., in place...that type of stuff. I had initially said I had no problem with it, but as the chat continued, I did...under the premise that new people would know and be comfortable with what they wanted. Now I've come full circle...having thought of it and given the time to put things in perspective.

So in a sense, after reading what he had to say, I feel that I have to agree with him (them) that maybe some of us tend to go a bit too far with this rule/boundary/signal stuff in our quest to experience the thrills of swinging. For me, at least, maybe the best way is to proceed exactly the way I did initially and that is by meeting someone, getting to know them, talking about lots of different things including but not limited to swinging. Simply liking the people. Common interests and values. The attitude that if the sexual part works - great! If not, the worst that can happen is that I have met friends along the way. So yes, I would have nary a problem with newbies, but would approach it exactly like I just stated.

Again, Mr. hmr...you were not taken to task. If anything, I was. But isn't that supposed to be the good thing about discussion...learning new things about others and ourselves?

- EBF

[imsnowman]

Great post. You certainly woke up with a lot of energy>

[good times]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
I'm sure it's true for many that things just happen and they find themselves swinging with the next door neighbors or with good firends, often before they even know what the term swinging is.

This is how it happened with us.

R

[windsor4fun2]

I agree, GREAT post EBF.

As far as research goes we didn't do any before our first experience which was a MFM. But that was 12-13 years ago and way before we had a computer and internet access. However we had talk a LOT about our interests and what we wanted etc. I think knowing yourselves and you desires etc. is the most important thing.
While we have made mistakes along the way I honestly don't think we would have made any fewer if we had done a lot of research. Just different ones

I believe Mr hmr mentioned over researching to the point you never get to actual swinging. With the amount of information available it is a definite possibility. Over analyzing swinging (or anything) and everything that goes with it can take the fun out of it. As EBF said it shouldn't be work.

Jesse

[J&BinNJ]

My husband and I are new. We haven't had any experieince yet, however, we have been doing a ton of research. This forum has been a wealth of information for us and we thank you all !
As far as discussing boundaries, we have. after 25 years of marriage and being together for 34 years total, we learned to discusss EVERYTHING that we do and discuss it even more when it is something as important as this. Nothing is worth ruining all the years we have together.
That said, I wanted to tell you that a couple contacted us last week via an ad we had posted. They seemed very nice and in fact, we had originally thought about contacting them, but they seemed very experieniced and doubted they would want to take a step back. We are only looking for same room sex, right now at least and want to go very slow.
Before this couple contacted us, we had already made arrangements to meet another couple who were also new and wanted the same thing we did (their profile was almost exactly like ours) so I thanked the other couple and explained our situation. Their reply was to tell us that it may not be a good idea to meet with other newbies because neither of us had experience.
I thought that odd because our feeling was that we both knew exactly what we wanted and since neither had experience, we could all be very up front about what we wanted and didn't want, etc. We planned on being honest with this other couple even if it meant we'd never see them again.
We met on Saturday and they were very nice, easy to talk to, in fact it was as though we'd known each other for years. They had the same outlook on everything as we did.
We both wanted to get to know people before anything could happen-if ever. They felt the same and we had a great time that night, just talking and having some drinks.
We will definately meet with them again and we all agreed we are in no hurry for anyting other than frieindship right now and if and when it happens, great, if not, we have found new friends ! People we can talk to about this since neither of us can talk to our other friends, they'd have coronaries!
So my point from a newbie standpoint is, newbies that are nervous and not ready to do a full swap may be better off with people who are new also that are not ready for full swap or an expeieinced couple who are willing to start slow (very slow at times) and not push them. I am sure most don't but I am sure some do. Especially once they meet or at least have the first date that isn't a full swap. they will expect the next date to go further. With the four of us, we know it may never go further and we are fine with that.
Does this make sense?
Anyway, thanks again for allthe great info! Have a great thanksgiving.

[hmr]

J & BinNJ, newbies or not, noone should ever be pushy toward another couple or person. Everyones bounderies, rules, and feelings are to be taken into consideration. RESPECT, for whom you are meeting is essential. It should always be understood that nothing will progress any further than any person is comfortable with going. A simple word, and everything comes to an end with no pressure to continue, no hard feelings, and the worst that could happen if nothing happens at all is you have possibly made new friends and enjoyed a night out. Who knows, maybe you will try again in the future when you ARE ready. Don't let this one experience deter you from experienced swingers. Most of them, that I have met, know these rules and abide by them. But I have run in to a few myself, who could use a little etiquet lessons dealing with others.
Case in point, I don't like being man handled. At a recent party, I felt like a ball being tossed around. I almost lost my cool. I (almost) calmly stood up, told them to wait one minute, let my feelings be known, and took a long break from the action. Calmed myself down. I received an apology from everyone there, and had no further problems. This was our first party with this particular group. Sometimes you have to be the one to give the ettiquet lesson. But, not when you are a newbie!! People know you are new, and you are nervous, and anxious. Atleast they should! Talk until you find the right couple who you feel understands these things. You will feel it, then just meet, and talk some more. See if you want to go any further, then plan an encounter. Or plan another meeting to get to know each other better. Responsible swingers are patient, and want to know you as well.

mrs. hmr

[hoistsail]

first time swinging for us just happened.

After a nice dinner he was dancing with my wife and me with his wife. both were playing around some. After lots of dancing and playing I and his wife walked in and he had is fingers deep in my wife's pussy. We just said you want to continue playing and we did.

[hmr]

Boy, EBF, thought I was gonna make it to Texas before you got back on!!

First a note to J&B in NJ and the Mrs.. Usually we DO stay in the same room during our play sessions, unfortunately the one time the wife of the other couple whose house we were at brings me in to the kitchen for more than food, was when Mrs. got bounced around. Generally even as an "experienced" couple we do stay together. What fun is it to experience things together if we're apart? The only time we are comfortable playing apart is a certain party we go to about every 3 weeks where we know most of the people and have no worries about not being "covered" by someone else. Our regular friends cover for us.

In fact, as has been discussed on this board, The Mrs. is NOT bi. At the last party we attended, some of the people we did not know were encouraging a new female to go down on Mrs. One of the other regular members stopped that from happening without the Mrs or myself knowing about it until later.

Now, back to getting started. We had been to several hotel parties and even met some couples prior to going to this house party we now frequent. However we had no idea what this house party was going to be like and had only met the couple who introduced us to this once. In general, we knew people went to have sex, that was about all.

We went. Immediately we were suprised to walk in to a house in the middle of town to find a lot of people naked. Some were even having sex right in the middle of the living room floor. This was all rather new to us. We were introduced, and asked our preferences. Other than that it was kinda like "Let the sex begin!".

Of course it ended up we have become friends with the regulars and the hosts, and had a blast.

My point here is I've IM'ed a few people here and many people on yahoo who talk forever and keep wishing. Some here who are still newbies have pm'ed me and said they've been on here forever and still have not swung. Even J&B in NJ above said they have studied this and are concerned with how the others will feel about newbies. We have been with newbies where it was successfuland with others where it was not. We've met some for lunch or dinner who were not ready and still had a good dinner. Were we upset that "newbies did it again" ? No. We were newbies once also and understand the unique feelings that come with something like this. We would gladly answer any questions newbies have, either over IM or a good dinner. If they feel they are ready, wonderful!! If not, hope you had fun anyway, and we met new interesting people at the same time.

Personaly,I would rather "Go for the Gusto!" and have the experience, whether good or bad. In one case I will really enjoy it, in the other it will be a good lesson. Nothing can be a total mistake if you've learned from it.

Sorry for my long novel here, its the only way I could get my point across.

BTW, lov ya EB

Mr. hmr

[NorCal Nites]

In the club that we have set up in Northern California, the last question on the membership form asks for a small blurb on you and your partner's experience in "the lifestyle". (btw... is there a better term out there for this?!)

If a couple or single female has no experience, rather than emailing them with their membership info, we will personally call them and talk them through some of the "rules" (or non-rules as some may feel). This lets them know that they are CARED FOR and that they can stop ANYTHING at any point in time, for ANY reason.

Other clubs in our area seem to be a freaking free-for-all, in which the "owners" haven't even been in the lifestyle a year and feel that it's their RIGHT to grope and molest members. This is one of the number one reasons that we branched off to our own club. It's just ridiculous what some people think that they can do, just because they're "swingers".

HRUMPH.

[Sonja&Brett]

Before the Internet, I thought swinging went out with the 70's. Then. through early message boards I found that it not only existed but seemed to be growing. And then my mind was really blown when I learned there were places like Freedom Acres.

I wanted to check it out. Sonja said that no way was she having sex with a man other than myself. But she does love having sex with me and really gets going when she is horny. Via some e-mail exchanges with people who had been to swing clubs, Sonja grew comfortable with the idea that we could go to Freedom Acres and have some great erotic fun without her being hassled or annoyed by guys who wanted a piece of her.

But it took awhile for me to screw up the courage to make the required phone call as a couple to get interviewed and schedule a date for going to the club. Sonja was very skeptical aobut the whole thing but agreed to participate in the call and to go to FA.

At the club we were amazed by the eroticism of the place and just as amazed at how polite and considerate everyone was. Near midnight, Sonja was worked up to a frenzy and was letting me take her breasts out of her dress and suck on them while we danced. To my surprise, she led me to the jacuzzi where she came repeatedly on the jets and then to one of the private rooms where we screwed.

I have to admit that I wasn't much of a lay that night. Repeated erections while dancing and then the jacuzzi left me pretty limp.

We've been going to clubs now for about five years. Sonja still doesn't want to add a couple to our play. But she is the one that often says,"Let's go to the club. I'm horny." The other night, during a long session of sex at home, God bless Viagra, Sonja said,"I'd like to have a guy suck my tits while you fuck me but he can't put his dick in me."

Well that hasn't happened yet, I don't even know how to make it happen. But we've come a long ways and it all began with exchanging information with other people on the Internet. - Brett