The risks of even bringing up swinging with your partner?

[Rabbyt]

Hi Everyone,

This is my 1st posting so go easy on me. Looking for e-books on Amazon.com which I like to read before going to sleep I came across a book called "Swinging for Beginners", it was cheap, I was intrigued, so I got it. Well, I had no idea of the impact that book had on me. I've read it three times and been so thirsty for more information on swinging which has eventually led me to your site.

The reason why I'm searching so much for all the info I can get is that I haven't even mentioned the barest hint of swinging to her as I want to make sure I do it as best I can (if I decide to risk it) to give us the maximum chance that she might want to give it a go.

I really don't know what her reaction will be. On the good side, she loves sex, daily if possible, she loves it in different places and loves dirty talk and us verbalising and describing what we are doing to each other. I guess I'm trying to put it together in my
mind.

What I love after some of the information I've read is that it is something we do as a couple. I wouldn't be interested in swinging alone and in fact it is as much a turn on for me imagining her being absolutely pleasured by other men while I'm watching as it is for me imagining myself with another woman. I also love the sense of freedom, of being released from
the emotional worry when sex is totally associated with love and relationship always. I love the talk of how swinging can bring a couple a unique closeness as if they can discuss and see their partners having sex, they can talk about anything. I really believe it would bring us closer.

My worries are that there is some risk in even bringing this subject up as would it colour how she perceived me forever if she was totally turned off by the idea of swinging. I love my wife dearly and my desire to see with other men and for me to experience other women takes nothing away from this love. I want to see her in throes of pleasure and relive
the experiences later as I believe it would improve our own eroticism, sex, communication and desire for each other. If she decided against doing it, I would accept this (despite some
disappointment) but I guess I hope that it wouldn't affect our relationship or worse ruin it just by her knowing that I wanted us to swing with other people. I guess that's the risk I'm worried about and would like to be the best prepared and minimise it if at all possible.

Are there any particular signs, traits, signals that would be more common to women who would be open to swinging that i could look for in my wife to make the BIG decision of whether to broach the subject with her.

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give and would like to thank everyone on this board for the wonderful information already contained in it.

Regards
Rabbyt

[twopeople2]

Do you watch porn together? Maybe you could make comments about whatever part of that you may like and see how she reacts. Or even talking dirty during sex. I don't mean bust out and say I'd like to swing honey would you? But, it would be a way to give her a hint or ease into it without outright shocking her. She may go along with it and think it's just sex talk but then later when you're out of bed you could bring it up and go from there. Others may suggest a more direct approach but just an idea, it worked for me.

[OhioCouple]

Excellent advice, twopeople2! At least that is how it got started with us. We had a really crappy porn video that had no sound to it so it kinda forced us to talk while watching it and playing around.

RabbyT, what ever you do, don't spring it on her and don't force the issue. It took several years of talking for me (the female half) to finally think to myself "Hey, this might be fun!" We did at least 3 years of "pillow talking" and fantasizing, and even then I had to do a whole lot of research before we took the first step. This site is an excellent place for researching it and the folks around here are more than willing to answer any questions that you have. I think if you bring it up to her in the right way, we started talking about it while making love, you'll not harm your relationship at all. Just gauge her reaction and if she clams up or turns cold on you. STOP and tell her you were just having a fantasy and nothing more. Let it have time to sink in and who knows, she could be the next one to bring it up to you.

Good luck and welcome to the board!

[TNT]

You said that you had read a book on swinging…why not give the book to your wife and tell her that you found the concepts in the book interesting and would like her opinion on it.

Ted and I are both avid readers and it is not uncommon for either of us to read a book and then ask the other to read it also, so we will have someone to discuss it with.

If you both surf the web you could show her this site and say something like…”You have got to check this out it’s so interesting”.

In both cases I wouldn’t come right out at first and say that you are interested in trying this, just that you found it interesting and wanted to know what she thought about it. It will open the lines of communication between the two of you on the subject and that is the first step. It might take months or years before anything would come of it, but you have to start somewhere.

As others have said, watching porn and sharing sexual fantasies with each other is always a good idea.

No matter what you decide always remember that trust, honesty and patience, as well as, COMMUNICATION are the most important things in any relationship.

Teresa

[JustAskJulie]

I'm guessing she knows you enjoy a good E-book before bed. Just tell her the truth. Say "honey you'll never believe this book I got the other night when I was looking for a new e-book". Then tell her about it. Obviously you didn't read it initially because of an interest in swinging, so being truthful here lets her decide on her own what to do with the info that you have found.

Tell her about the book and see what she has to say in response. If her reaction is "that is sick and wrong" then let it go. Either way the thought is planted in her head and she will probably continue to think about it. Either deciding she is totally against it or perhaps considering it and deciding that she too wants to know more.

The key here is to open the doors of communication and keep them open.

[Buck]

Rabbyt, I could have made your post. In fact several months ago when I discovered this board I made similar posts asking for similar advice. The advice given to me me was pretty much the same as you are getting...take it slow with your wife. Like yours, my wife loves sex, watches porno videos with me (and she gets really hot when we do ), and uses sex toys in front of me but is very cautious when I mention a MFM menage a' trois or me simply watching her have sex with another man. I don't push it, but I do take the opportunity to bring it up when the timing is right. The MFM thing has been a fantasy of mine for many years and she knows it. Several have suggested that I introduce her to this board, but like you, I am wary of that right now because once done, its too late if she responds in a negative way. I really don't think she would, but I'm still very nervous about it. I really suspect that deep down, if the opportunity ever arose in the right place. at the right time, with the right guy or couple, she would be open to swinging. I keep hoping that someday it might happen. I, like you evidently, am not pursuing this for my pleasure alone, as I am committed to my wife and would not do anything outside our relationship as a couple. I also know that if we ever get into swinging, it would be because I suggested it, not her. I base that on our history of me suggesting we watch porno videos then after she tried it, she liked it, and the same applied with sex toys. We have been married over twenty years and all of this has been a very gradual development to the point we are in now. So, I have no answers for you but can identify with you strongly and maybe we can share thoughts about this subject on this board. Have a nice day!

[thekolonel]

Most of the women I've met in the scene were nudged into it at some point by the men in their lives and then after a while discovered they loved it. At some point you need to have the talk with her. Tell her you'd like to visit one of these parties just to watch and see what it's like, almost like live-action porn. Put her under no pressure to go any further than that. Make it easy for her to take a baby step in your direction and she might come around.

[Rabbyt]

Hi again and thanks to everyone who responded. I guess I'll give some views on these responses and seek any further help that can be offered.

QUOTE]Originally posted by twopeople2
Do you watch porn together? Maybe you could make comments about whatever part of that you may like and see how she reacts. Or even talking dirty during sex.[/QUOTE]

No we have never watched porn together. I agree this would be a good idea, though I also have to come up with why, after 6 years of Marriage, I'm suddenly suggesting we get some porn dvd's. Though I'm more confident of being able to do this and I doubt she will have a problem with us watching them.

We have been talking dirty in bed for a little while now. It's funny because here I am wanting to swing, yet I'm the more repressed one. I'm 10 years older than she is and grew up with very repressed attitudes pushed into me regarding sex. Whilst I don't agree with them, I have always found sex was embarassing and wouldn't say a word during love-making except for the grunts and groans. However, I have been telling her how good it feels when she gives head for example and how good she is at it and asking what she wants me to do to her etc... in recent times including using the vulgar terms for the bits of us. She seems to really like this and I find it a turn-on too.

QUOTE]Originally posted by OhioCouple
RabbyT, what ever you do, don't spring it on her and don't force the issue. It took several years of talking for me (the female half) to finally think to myself "Hey, this might be fun!" We did at least 3 years of "pillow talking" and fantasizing, and even then I had to do a whole lot of research before we took the first step.
[/QUOTE]

I think I'd find it hard to just spring it anyway and would need something to help me lead into talking about it. I wish I could somehow get her to read this board as the attitudes and opinions on Swinging are not what you expect when you are uniformed. They certainly surprised me. I hope when we finally talk about it it doesn't take 3 years for it to become a reality for us. And thanks for the Welcome! You people all seem so wonderful.

Originally posted by TNT
You said that you had read a book on swinging…why not give the book to your wife and tell her that you found the concepts in the book interesting and would like her opinion on it.

If you both surf the web you could show her this site and say something like…”You have got to check this out it’s so interesting”.

As others have said, watching porn and sharing sexual fantasies with each other is always a good idea.

Teresa

Hi teresa and thanks for your comments. I don't think I could just give her the book. She doesn't read that much and I would feel strange doing that as it would be out of the ordinary for me to do so.

She is just starting to learn a little about computers and we haven't done much web surfing together and certainly not on any sex sites. In time, I would love to be reading this board together with her as I think it has wonderful information. Or somehow at least get her to find this site and read some of it herself. I don't think she's ever seen a sexy type site before.

I think there's something in the sharing of fantasies. We have never told each other any of our fantasies. I have never asked her and she hasn't of me either. What's a good way to bring this up?

And don't worry, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments on trust and honesty etc... and a lot of the reason that Swinging has excited me is how much it seems to enhance all those qualities for the couples involved.

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
Tell her about the book and see what she has to say in response. If her reaction is "that is sick and wrong" then let it go. Either way the thought is planted in her head and she will probably continue to think about it. Either deciding she is totally against it or perhaps considering it and deciding that she too wants to know more.

The key here is to open the doors of communication and keep them open.

Hi Julie,

Thanks for your comments. I guess that seems a little too direct for me to start opening the communication doors on swinging. I'd like to somehow start it a little subtler than that and then get her the actual paper copy of a good book on swinging to read. You have a wonderful site and resource here and I genuinely thank you for it.

Originally posted by Buck
Rabbyt, I could have made your post.

Several have suggested that I introduce her to this board, but like you, I am wary of that right now because once done, its too late if she responds in a negative way. I really don't think she would, but I'm still very nervous about it. I really suspect that deep down, if the opportunity ever arose in the right place. at the right time, with the right guy or couple, she would be open to swinging.

So, I have no answers for you but can identify with you strongly and maybe we can share thoughts about this subject on this board. Have a nice day!

Hi Buck,

Hey good to know that there's others in the same boat. Then if there's things tried that have some succes they can be shared. I would love to have her see this board but I'd love it more if she somehow was able to stumble across it on her own. I'm sortof hoping that if we can get to talking about fantasies and then maybe give each other projects to find a site about whatever fantasy (in this case swinging or a 3-some) we are talking about and look at the sites. That's one way that's been going through my mind.

I'm not sure what I suspect about whether she would do it or not. Some things we have done in the past say to me that maybe she would, but I don't know yet. I guess that's the first question I want to establish for myself before i take it further with her. I want to be able to think that there's a reasonable chance that she might want to do this cause If i thought there was no way, then the risk just isn't worth taking.

Originally posted by thekolonel
Most of the women I've met in the scene were nudged into it at some point by the men in their lives and then after a while discovered they loved it. At some point you need to have the talk with her. Tell her you'd like to visit one of these parties just to watch and see what it's like, almost like live-action porn. Put her under no pressure to go any further than that. Make it easy for her to take a baby step in your direction and she might come around.

That is something that would be great to do with her but it's probably a step well into the future. I would love to go to a party with her though and just see what is happening without us doing anything. It would also help me to see if this is some sort of fantasy I've become fixated on (not that I think that's the case but you never really know till you do it) or is it really appealing to me.

Sorry about the long post but I thought it was better than doing a few different ones. I appreciate the time taken by you all and in some ways it reaffirms to me the sense of community and belonging that seems to be a part of Swinging.

[BradAndJanet]

Rabbyt, first let me say welcome to the board!

Second, I think you're on the right track, using your head and taking it one step at a time. I think you have the right attitude about this; taking it slow, letting things happen as they may and listening to the fine advice you've received here. Work it into your bedroom talk, find some porn to watch that shows some multiple partner sex and wait for the opportunity to ask her about her fantasies. She may surprise you.

If and when she's ready, show her this site. You can count on us to be just a friendly and supportive of her as we are of you. Best wishes to you. Stick around too, we'd love to get to know you better and hear how things are going!

-B

[Elusive BiFem]

Hi Rabbyt (and Buck, too). First, let me insert the caveat that I am NOT married or involved so I'm not coming at this from the perspective of a *wife*. But I am *old* and female, so that counts for something.

I think it would be terribly shocking to be in a long-term marriage or relationship and have my partner suddenly bring up the idea of swinging. I also believe that I would immediately start questioning myself and the relationship - which would only make for hard feelings and cause me to throw up a wall that might not be penetrable (if that is a word). Also, most of us settle into a marriage "forsaking all others, etc." so the idea of sharing with others outside those boundaries is initially shocking, to say the least - even when it is our own thought.

I hesitate to say this, but many people would find the idea of sexual sharing almost "abnormal," if you will. I know that I did, initially. Therefore, that is part of the thought process that has to be turned around, but it can't be done by someone (you) telling her that it is "normal" or "exciting" or "whatever." She needs to get there on her own - with little nudges by you - just enough to start opening one door at a time.

Knowing that everyone's circumstances are different, I would suggest a few "soft" activities that might start opening those doors if only for a peek.

Massage. There are massage therapists that will make house calls. Although not erotic massage, the after effects may be quite erotic and stimulating and open the door for sharing of fantasies regarding the involvement of others.

Of course, the porn idea is good, too, but depending on what you've done in the past, that might bring on negative comments or questions. If you've never watched porn together, you would probably want to start with something really soft and work towards the harder stuff. Also, there were some earlier threads on swapping/swinging on TV. Watching something like that together would be a perfect lead in for discussion and sharing. That might also enable you to suggest the idea of visiting an off-premesis club.

Have you ever visited a local adult bookstore together? That can be a ton of fun and can really open up communication. WOW!! I saw things there that I didn't even know existed! Not the sort of place I have an interest in visiting often, but it was fun one night just to go from store to store - looking. And watching other people. Really led to some risque and eye-opening conversations later.

Start doing things out of the ordinary for your relationship. Most of us "settle" into relationships...home from work, dinner, errands, laundry, etc. Why not surprise her one night by planning an early evening picnic with a little erotic play thrown in for dessert? Again, opening the door to adventuresome play.

Maybe a weekend get-a-way in some hotel with a jacuzzi, room service, wine...spend the weekend totally naked and playing with each other. And generally, you can watch some pay-per-view type porn there. Might be the perfect opening. Might be the opportunity to suggest the off-premesis club visit, too - if she has had the opportunity to even know they exist. (and believe me, although I'm *old,* I had not a single idea about that stuff until just 2-3 years ago!!)

Does she dress sexy - ever? Or like most of us - fall into bed at night in the old but comfortable t-shirt? Maybe coming home with a special gift - sexy nightie or something? Maybe even some on-line shopping together. That could be fun.

I posted somewhere else that we sometimes have to convince others that what we want is their idea , and while it may sound manipulative, we all do it all the time. And that is likely what you need to do - start placing one thought/idea in front of the other - allowing time for the idea to be absorbed - and all the while leading her to where you want to go. In the end, it will be an idea you came to together. They are baby steps and we all learn to "walk" at different paces. Only you know how fast she will walk, and one way or the other, she will tell you when she needs to go back to crawling for a while. And when and if she tells you that, you need to listen and allow it. It will probably be only temporary, then back to walking.

Hope this helps even a little - EBF

[Rabbyt]

Originally posted by BradAndJanet
Rabbyt, first let me say welcome to the board!

Thank you, you know I really do feel welcome here.

Second, I think you're on the right track, using your head and taking it one step at a time. I think you have the right attitude about this; taking it slow, letting things happen as they may and listening to the fine advice you've received here. Work it into your bedroom talk, find some porn to watch that shows some multiple partner sex and wait for the opportunity to ask her about her fantasies. She may surprise you.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, it's reassuring to hear experienced people tell me that I could be on the right track. And I do plan to take it slowly. As much as some people might not believe it, I want to do this as much for us, as I do for the potential opportunity to have sex with other women. In the past during some of the times when our relationship has been under stress, one of the things that she has always said is that she wants to be much closer to me. Now, it can be very hard to work out exactly what to do to become much closer, but reading the philosophy behind swinging and how it frees up couples and their inhibitions and allows them to communicate on every level totally openly, I think that I understand much better what that much closer means. BTW, our relationship is quite strong now so please don't take my comments to imply that we are having problems.

I'm not concerned if it takes us quite a while to get there as I imagine the journey will have some quite wonderful discoveries and opportunities to explore things together. What I've decided to do to start is I've ordered a copy of "Sweet Life: Erotic fantasies for couples" and will give it to her shortly for her birthday, telling her its for us to read and have fun with together.
I am 100% confident she will love this present as we have recently become more vocal during sex and this will be the next stage of actually talking about what we like and our fantasies rather than just using dirty talk to turn each other on during sex.
I imagine that the book will have a lot of fantasies that have nothing to do with swinging or other partners, but we'll probably be able to have fun with a lot of the fantasies in there.

I like your comment about getting to the point of asking her about her fantasies and "she might surprise you". Some of the things we have done in the past on the spur of the moment make me believe that this could be true. Like having sex on the beach on holidays (there was some other people a few hundred metres away) or her groping me on the spur of the moment while out and not in any opportunity to actually do anything else.

If and when she's ready, show her this site. You can count on us to be just a friendly and supportive of her as we are of you. Best wishes to you. Stick around too, we'd love to get to know you better and hear how things are going!
-B [/QUOTE]

This is probably the nicest thing that I've read in this thread. I'd love to get to the point where she comes on this site as so many things are explained so much better than I could do it. And to then have the people here willing to be supportive if she came here to help her understand that it's not just an excuse to Fuck around (excuse me for using that profanity but it didn't sound right using any other words for it) but so much more than that. I will be sticking around. In fact the only thing that would make me go away is if I eventually got a catagorical NO, NOT EVER from her as it would seem to be sill y to be hanging round here in that case.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Rabbyt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Hi Rabbyt (and Buck, too). First, let me insert the caveat that I am NOT married or involved so I'm not coming at this from the perspective of a *wife*. But I am *old* and female, so that counts for something.

I'm really interested in females points of view on this. I think it helps me get a better perspective on it. And btw, I would rather call you *wise* and female.

I think it would be terribly shocking to be in a long-term marriage or relationship and have my partner suddenly bring up the idea of swinging. I also believe that I would immediately start questioning myself and the relationship

We have been together for 6 years so it's been reasonably long-term. I think you might be right about her reaction. She can be a little insecure at times. She is quite a bit younger than me, she is a knockout to look at, slim, sexy, great figure and yet she often has a poor self-image of herself. I have to constantly tell her that she is so beautiful, not fat at all (she weighs 48kg and is 160cm tall) as if I have to convince her. I have bought her clothes that are a little sexy and she says she'll wear them for me but also says she's not good enough to wear them just out. She's wrong!

She needs to get there on her own - with little nudges by you - just enough to start opening one door at a time.

That's exactly what I would love to happen, where with some nudges I could get her to somehow bring up the topic asking me for my thoughts on it. I would be totally honest with her if I could get that to happen as her asking would be showing some potential interest in it. I guess im saying that would be the best case, though I've got to be prepared to raise it myself at some stage if it seems she never will. Otherwise I'd never know if she was just too scared to raise it.

Massage. There are massage therapists that will make house calls. Although not erotic massage, the after effects may be quite erotic and stimulating and open the door for sharing of fantasies regarding the involvement of others.

She actually loves to get massages and has done so a few times. One of her other birthday presents will be a 4 hour pampering at a Jurlique Salon. I actually organised this before i even read that book and started my interest in Swinging.

Of course, the porn idea is good, too, but depending on what you've done in the past, that might bring on negative comments or questions.

I actually thought we'd never watched porn together, but we actually somewhat have. On holidays, we've had a hotel pay TV on a Porn channel in Europe and it was pretty bad so we weren't really watching it but it excited us enough to make love and take pictures of each other. She also asked me to take her to Sexpo (an adult exhibition) 3 years ago and I bought her a pair of Wicked Weasel bikinis there. There is a Sexpo going to be here in November, so I'm going to ask her this time to go with me.

Also, there were some earlier threads on swapping/swinging on TV.

I'll certainly look out for those.

Have you ever visited a local adult bookstore together? That can be a ton of fun and can really open up communication.

No, I think this one maybe we could do a bit further down the track of exploring things.

Start doing things out of the ordinary for your relationship. Why not surprise her one night by planning an early evening picnic with a little erotic play thrown in for dessert? Again, opening the door to adventuresome play.

I love this idea. we can be in the countryside after a drive of about an hour and I can just imagine stopping the car, going into the fields away from the road and spreading a blanket. There would be the hint that we could be caught even if that was only a remote chance. And knowing her, I think she would absolutely love it.

Does she dress sexy - ever? Or like most of us - fall into bed at night in the old but comfortable t-shirt? Maybe coming home with a special gift - sexy nightie or something? Maybe even some on-line shopping together. That could be fun.

When on holidays, she had a wild time in the New York Victoria Secret on 6th Avenue and I have since then ordered from their catalogues for her a few times. I have bought teddies and babydolls and she does love them. Especially the teddy that has a rip open crotch. She was eager for us to try that out. I would like to see her dress sexier for general wear and I think she would too but her self esteem has been a barrier somewhat.

In the end, it will be an idea you came to together.

This is exactly what I'd like to achieve as I think if we felt it was a totally joint decision, we're much more likely to have fun and enjoy doing it.

Thanks for all your thoughts. They've been a real help!

[Buck]

Rabbyt, as ususual, ElusiveBiFem seems to be "right on" with her advice. Similar to what she gave me several months ago. As far not rushing into things and enjoying it along the way, that's almost an exact description of what has happened with me and my wife. We've been married over twenty years and it seems each year gets better. My fantasy about a MFM thing or watching her surfaced pretty early in our marriage when we were sharing our previous sexual experiences with each other. I, too am a few years older than my wife so she had experienced only a few partners, but as she told me about them I became so turned on I couldn't restrain myself. Then, slowly, over the years, I would verbalize my fantasies, especially in the throes of a sexual encounter between us, then we started watching porn videos, read a few "dirty" magazines together, etc. I forgot one thing in my earlier post, we also have had some great phone sex sessions when one of us was out of town on business. One thing I have done several times is pop a video in and key it up to the right "spot" or scene, then call her and when she is comfortable ask her to turn on the VCR and then things really heat up. Its a great opportunity to share those fantasies and masturbate together over the phone. I think she really appreciates the fact that when I'm out of town I'm not out running the bars and chasing women but would rather call her and have sex over the phone with her (such as it is). A huge part of our experience here is learning to trust each other, especially her learning that I am not going to "set her up" or push her into anything. She is even able to joke about my MFM fantasy with such comments as we need to buy three burial plots, one for each of us and one for "Him." Such comments as that lead me to to believe that with the right person in the right situation my ultimate fantasy might happen, but, again, I am not going to set up a surprise or anything like that. In the meantime, we're both having fun and the older we get, it seems the closer we get in every way, including sexually.

ElusiveBiFem, if you read this, I agree with Rabbyt, the word should be "wise" not "old"....especially since I think you and I are about the same age. Thanks again for your wise advice.

[windsor4fun2]

Originally posted by Rabbyt
[B]
I think you might be right about her reaction. She can be a little insecure at times.[B]

If she can be insecure take special care to not say or do anything that could trigger it.

For us it was my wife that broached the subject of swinging. She has always been the more adventurous one. However was not a big shock to me because we had been fantasizing about swapping or a threesome for awhile. We started by discussing our fantasies during love making and it went from there. I would suggest as others and discuss your fantasies and see where it leads, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Jesse

[Elusive BiFem]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabbyt
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Hi Rabbyt (and Buck, too). First, let me insert the caveat that I am NOT married or involved so I'm not coming at this from the perspective of a *wife*. But I am *old* and female, so that counts for something.

I'm really interested in females points of view on this. I think it helps me get a better perspective on it. And btw, I would rather call you *wise* and female.

And Buck: ElusiveBiFem, if you read this, I agree with Rabbyt, the word should be "wise" not "old"....especially since I think you and I are about the same age. Thanks again for your wise advice."

Thanks, Rabbyt and Buck. That *wise* thinng kind of makes my day.

I have a friend that told me just recently, " You didn't make a mistake. You were just practicing." I thought that was a terrific way to look at things.

And now this thing about being "wise" vs. "old." Sort of in the same vein...

The problem is, I'm so very *wise* that I shouldn't need to *practice* anymore. I should have life down pat by now.

Have a great day - EBF