The risks of even bringing up swinging with your partner?

[Elusive BiFem]

[quote]Originally posted by Rabbyt

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Hi Rabbyt (and Buck, too). First, let me insert the caveat that I am NOT married or involved so I'm not coming at this from the perspective of a *wife*. But I am *old* and female, so that counts for something.

I'm really interested in females points of view on this. I think it helps me get a better perspective on it. And btw, I would rather call you *wise* and female.

And Buck: "ElusiveBiFem, if you read this, I agree with Rabbyt, the word should be "wise" not "old"....especially since I think you and I are about the same age. Thanks again for your wise advice."

Thanks, Rabbyt and Buck. That *wise* thing kind of makes my day.

I have a friend that told me just recently, " You didn't make a mistake. You were just practicing." I thought that was a terrific way to look at things.

And now this thing about being "wise" vs. "old." Sort of in the same vein...

The problem is, I'm so very *wise* that I shouldn't need to *practice* anymore. I should have life down pat by now.

Have a great day - EBF

[ready2pla]

I hope you find a way to break the communication barrier because she may have the same fantasy that you have discovered. I remember how I got the subject started we were only 20 married 2 years and while we were having a wild romp I started talking dirty asking her if she would like having a friend of ours big cock in her right then I knew she was attracted to him. She responded like crazy. We didn't talk about it after that except while we were hot and horny but it planted a seed in her mind wondering how it would be. She had never been with another man sexually. After a few times in bed we got started talking about it when we were alone no distractions. We have been married happly 27 years. Now as I look back you might not want to use a good friend that your wife is attracted to that could be dangerous in many ways. It just worked for us maybe because she was having the same fantasy I was. Good luck we have had some great years and wild times

[SexhoundDog]

I too am in the same boat your are, RabbyT. Windsor4fun2 hit one of my concerns on the head, and that's her insecurity. I'm without a doubt certain that if I'm ever to get my wife into ever trying it, that there is no way I'd even mention another female at first. It would absolutely have to be for her, and if it never went further than softswing stopping at oral for instance or an MMF encounter, I'm fine with that. If you are too, then maybe we'll both have some luck!

If your sex life is already good, I doubt it would hurt to see what her reaction would be to watching porn. My wife enjoys watching the strange cocks in them and I believe she likes the TASTEFUL MMF scenes the best, where the men are pleasuring the woman, not degrading her. When our kids go back to college, I'm ordering one called Femme done by Candida Royalle. I heard she makes porn that is more for women; go into search and see what you can find.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally posted by Rabbyt

Thanks for your comments. I guess that seems a little too direct for me to start opening the communication doors on swinging. I'd like to somehow start it a little subtler than that and then get her the actual paper copy of a good book on swinging to read. You have a wonderful site and resource here and I genuinely thank you for it.

When you do get around to getting a paper copy of a book to read I would suggest Recreational Sex by Patti Thomas

It's a light read, great for those who don't typically read a lot and covers all the basics.

[Buck]

Rabbyt, the more you describe your wife, the more it makes me think she is open to spicing things up with you. Not the big leap to MMF or swapping but just spicing things up a bit. The fun she had at Victoria's Secret and the Sexpo thing you went to sounds like she enjoys being somewhat "racy". You know, the more I read what you and others have written on this thread and then me actually digesting my own responses to you about my situation leads me to think that my wife is slowly reaching the point of admitting she may be interested in swinging under the right circumstances. If that ever happens I don't know but I know that it will take me finally asking her directly about it rather than just strongly hinting, because I don't think whe would ever volunteer her interest in it if she has any. I guess that's where I am hung up now, should I straightforward ask her or not? For those that have been following this thread, what do you think I should do?

[Rabbyt]

[quote]Originally posted by Buck
I forgot one thing in my earlier post, we also have had some great phone sex sessions when one of us was out of town on business. One thing I have done several times is pop a video in and key it up to the right "spot" or scene, then call her and when she is comfortable ask her to turn on the VCR and then things really heat up. Its a great opportunity to share those fantasies and masturbate together over the phone.

Thanks some really great ideas here, I love that one and it would've come in handy recently when she was away for a few days. One I will definitely try once we get into watching some movies together.

I think she really appreciates the fact that when I'm out of town I'm not out running the bars and chasing women but would rather call her and have sex over the phone with her (such as it is).

I would never do that to her anyway, I never have done in any of my relationships in my life but I get your point about she realizing that by doing something with her and wanting to do so.

[Rabbyt]

[quote]Originally posted by ready2pla
I hope you find a way to break the communication barrier because she may have the same fantasy that you have discovered.

I'm sure I will, I think it's a matter of timing and setting the scene for us to become more intimate with each others fantasies and sexual talk, which I am the first to admit I am the one who has to make changes here and improve as I have had the problem of getting embarassed and closing down when it comes to talking about sexual matters. The fantasies about swinging have opened my eyes a lot here.

I remember how I got the subject started we were only 20 married 2 years and while we were having a wild romp I started talking dirty asking her if she would like having a friend of ours big cock in her right then I knew she was attracted to him. She responded like crazy.

If you've read all the posts in this thread you would've read how we've recently begun using dirty talk during our lovemaking. There was one moment in the last week where after we went oral on each other she was saying how wet she was and I said that she needs a big cock into her now. She responded with I need your big cock in me now, which I guess was appropriate seeing I was the only male there.

Good luck we have had some great years and wild times

Thanks, I hope to have some of those in the future too.

[Rabbyt]

[quote]Originally posted by SexhoundDog
I too am in the same boat your are, RabbyT. Windsor4fun2 hit one of my concerns on the head, and that's her insecurity. I'm without a doubt certain that if I'm ever to get my wife into ever trying it, that there is no way I'd even mention another female at first. It would absolutely have to be for her, and if it never went further than softswing stopping at oral for instance or an MMF encounter, I'm fine with that. If you are too, then maybe we'll both have some luck!

I would be absolutely fine with that, as if she didn't enjoy the esperience for herself with some other guy or us soft swinging with another couple, it wouldn't make any sense to keep pursuing it anyway. Even if she wanted to only soft swing forever, I'd be happy just seeing her please other guys orally and besides I love getting oral anyway.

If your sex life is already good, I doubt it would hurt to see what her reaction would be to watching porn. My wife enjoys watching the strange cocks in them and I believe she likes the TASTEFUL MMF scenes the best, where the men are pleasuring the woman, not degrading her. When our kids go back to college, I'm ordering one called Femme done by Candida Royalle. I heard she makes porn that is more for women; go into search and see what you can find.

After reading your msg I have already done a search and looked throught those to find some approriate ones. On this site in the shopping sextion I also found a set of 4 dvd's called "Sexuality Reports - 4 dvd box set". One of the 4 is "Swinging from fantasy to reality" and I hope to buy these soon as having a swinging dvd included in a set is not as blatant as buying it specifically on its own but could lead to some good open conversations on the subject. I'm not worried about her reaction to watching porn. In fact I'm 100% sure that she won't have a problem with watching them at all and will probably find them exciting.

[Rabbyt]

Originally posted by JustAskJulie
When you do get around to getting a paper copy of a book to read I would suggest Recreational Sex by Patti Thomas

It's a light read, great for those who don't typically read a lot and covers all the basics.

Thanks Julie, you're a star. I'll definitely get it.

[Rabbyt]

[quote]Originally posted by Buck
Rabbyt, the more you describe your wife, the more it makes me think she is open to spicing things up with you. Not the big leap to MMF or swapping but just spicing things up a bit.

Hi Buck, yes of that I'm sure as I think I've been the one who's been the one dragging the chain on us spicing things up due to my inability to discuss embarassing topics and talk openly and freely about sexual topics. That's why I'm going to start by us sharing a couple of books to get us speaking about these.

As for swinging, If I thought that there was no way she would go for it, I'd be dropping it now. That's what I need to find out as I think there's at least a 50% chance she could be interested and excited about it. Though I have no doubt she'd have heaps of questions and would have some of society's conditions like worrying about labels like slut etc.. to get over too.

You know, the more I read what you and others have written on this thread and then me actually digesting my own responses to you about my situation leads me to think that my wife is slowly reaching the point of admitting she may be interested in swinging under the right circumstances. If that ever happens I don't know but I know that it will take me finally asking her directly about it rather than just strongly hinting, because I don't think whe would ever volunteer her interest in it if she has any.

I'm glad that the questions and comments I've posed seem to be helping someone else too.

I guess that's where I am hung up now, should I straightforward ask her or not? For those that have been following this thread, what do you think I should do?

And boy, I feel so inadequately qualified to give you advice at this stage. All I can say is that I know at some stage in the future (I guess it would be in the next 6 mths or so) I'm gonna have to let her know that I'm really interested and asking her for her thoughts. I also at that time will ask if she wants to go to a party where we won't have to do anything except watch what we're able to, talk to other people, take in the sexually charged atmosphere and maybe get a little naked in front of others or make love to one another with others able to see us.

[bear_n_bunny]

Rabbyt,

While I'm sure you are up to your armpits in different perspectives on how to broach this rather touchy subject to your wife by now, I'm a firm believer in not making things any more complicated than they need to be.

Insofar as swinging is concerned, you are obviously aware that caution is indicated in how you bring up the subject to Ms. Rabbyt, especially since you have indicated she's a bit insecure about herself (although from the way you describe her, she sounds like a major babe...

So, the first step is to find out how she is apt to respond to this subject in general terms, as this will go a long way towards determining if you want to pursue the matter with her.

Some evening, perhaps after the two of you have shared some nice, mind-blowing cums and are engaging in a bit of after-action pillow talk, casually bring up the subject to her. But do it something like this; "Say, sweetie, I ran across the damndest thing the other day while surfing the net. It was a web site for people (say "people", not "couples"; keep it as innocuous as possible initially) who are into something called swinging".

(Obviously you can phrase this statement any way you want, with variations determined by what you figure she already knows, what she thinks you already know about subjects like this, etc. The trick is to phrase it in such a way as to indicate it's something distant, remote, having little or no effect on her. Sort of like saying "Did you know that most marriages in Japan are still "arranged" by the families?" You get the idea.)

At this point, pause a second and give her a chance to say something. Her response may range from "Swinging? What's that?" to "Swinging?!?! Ohh, yuck. Wife swappers. How disgusting!"

Naturally, if her response is something like the latter, it's best to drop it right then and forget about it, at least in the short term.

But if her response is more like the former ("What's swinging?" or the like), give her a general description of the idea, based on what you "found" on the web site. And in a sense, this is true; you just found out about this lifestyle recently, and on the net...

Either way, it will be dicey at this point, as we don't know how she might react to such a concept, so be careful. You will have to temper your responses accordingly.

If she responds positively, or at least neutral, give her some of the info you've learned, and I would emphasize how much the women are in control of the whole thing (but then, the women are always in control; else you would not be jumping through all these hoops..., and how much pleasure they get from it, etc. But even then, do not make any direct suggestions that the two of you might want to do this. Lay some of the information on her, but then casually change the subject. Give her time to think on it.

On the other hand, if she responds in a negative fashion, especially something along the lines of "What? Do you want to have sex with other women!?!", etc, start backpedaling, lie if you have to, and drop the subject. The most you can hope for is that you've planted the seed with her, and perhaps some time in the future, maybe when you all are older and she's not so insecure, you might bring it up again.

(Along about now, some self-righteous dingdong is going to get up and start bitching about me telling this guy to lie to his wife if he has to. Well, you are not the one who has to live with this man's wife, especially if she gets her panties in a major wad over this. As I have stated before in this forum, a certain amount of lying is necessary in most any relationship at one time or another just to keep the peace; the trick is to differentiate between a harmless "white" lie and a malicious one.)

Believe me, rabbyt, there is a reason most couples do not swing. Women are anthropologically hard-wired to keep under strict control not only who gets access to their pussies, but the cocks of the males they are married to or otherwise seriously involved with. This goes back to our Stone Age origins. It takes a powerful mind for a woman to override that programming and learn to enjoy the purely recreational sex one has in swinging.

Of course, once she makes that leap, she quickly discovers she still has as much control over herself and you as she did before. The only difference is that she can now enjoy the different flavors and levels of sexual pleasure one can find with different sexual playmates. The trick here will be for you to help your honey make that transition. I hope it works out well for both of you.

Bear

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by bear_n_bunny

(Along about now, some self-righteous dingdong is going to get up and start bitching about me telling this guy to lie to his wife if he has to. Well, you are not the one who has to live with this man's wife, especially if she gets her panties in a major wad over this. As I have stated before in this forum, a certain amount of lying is necessary in most any relationship at one time or another just to keep the peace; the trick is to differentiate between a harmless "white" lie and a malicious one.)
Bear

Bear:
I think your suggestions, from the male perspective, are quite good. I have a bit of trouble sometimes with your "macho-male" attitudes (in this and other postings), but truthfully, when I step back and try to look at things from the male perspective (as best I can), I can usually understand where you are coming from or headed to.

I don't think your suggestions are necessarily a lie. I believe it was more along the line of the "manipulation" I was talking about earlier. And while most everyone will say they don't like a manipulator or being manipulated, we all do it in one way or the other although I believe it is generally without conscious intent.

Rabbyt:
From the female perspective (maybe the "macho-female ), I would merely like to reinforce the idea that along the way of attempting to introduce Ms. Rabbyt to the idea, you reinforce your feelings for her - your emotional and sexual desire for her, and particularly your love for her alone. As you work on that aspect, along with Bear's suggestions, you will be increasing her self-confidence and ego, as well as opening all of those doors of communication that are spoken of so frequently. -EBF

[Tarnished Halo]

Having been in the position where my "introduction" was less than charming, loving and presented in a way that my heart almost leapt out of my chest, I would STRONGLY agree that to proceed with caution. A GREAT deal of caution. Had we (or he) done things a whole lot differently, I wouldn't be going through some of the mind bending things that I had to.
The bottom line (not to be mean) is that you do want to have sex with another woman, but hopefully, you can do so in a way that doesn't demoralize and endanger your relationship. Having been married for 20+ years, it is very important to let her know (assuming that she is important to you and you don't want to lose her or your relationship over being anxious to start swinging) that this is something that you BOTH can do, and there are benefits to her (I am still trying to figure that one out, I am very well aware of the benefits to my husband). Perhaps you can avoid the pit that I fell into.

Yeah everyone....it's been a rough weekend so far. I just had to add my caution too.

[Rabbyt]

[quote]Originally posted by bear_n_bunny
Rabbyt,

Insofar as swinging is concerned, you are obviously aware that caution is indicated in how you bring up the subject to Ms. Rabbyt, especially since you have indicated she's a bit insecure about herself (although from the way you describe her, she sounds like a major babe...

After reading all the advice I've got so far, I'm not even thinking about swinging with her at the moment. I'm going to spend some time working on how open our communication is and getting us to the point where we can discuss ANYTHING as well as making sure she knows how beautiful she is and how I will always love her. And yes, she is a major babe, I think the biggest problem she (and I) would face at a party would be fighting off everyone trying to hit on her.

On the other hand, if she responds in a negative fashion, especially something along the lines of "What? Do you want to have sex with other women!?!", etc, start backpedaling, lie if you have to, and drop the subject. The most you can hope for is that you've planted the seed with her, and perhaps some time in the future, maybe when you all are older and she's not so insecure, you might bring it up again.

Before I get to the point of casually bringing it up, I want to get to the point of our communication and relationship being such that I wouldn't have to even think about lying to her. I want to be able to say that it turns me on and I'd love to try it but if you don't, that's fine with me too. I think that in this situation, (1) - if we are at that point, there is a greater likelihood that she'd be open to trying and experimenting with new things and (2) Even if she was vehemently against it, the very fact that I investigated all this will have had an enormously positive benefit to our relationship and sex life anyway. In fact, our sex in the past week has probably been the best sex we've ever had and I'm sure that's a result of the erotic thoughts I've had in the past week and it rubbing off on her as we've made love.

Of course, once she makes that leap, she quickly discovers she still has as much control over herself and you as she did before. The only difference is that she can now enjoy the different flavors and levels of sexual pleasure one can find with different sexual playmates. The trick here will be for you to help your honey make that transition. I hope it works out well for both of you.

We all only have one life and one chance to explore ourselves as freely as we can so I want to give both of us a chance to do this if it's possible. Thanks for your advice.

[Rabbyt]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Rabbyt:
From the female perspective (maybe the "macho-female ), I would merely like to reinforce the idea that along the way of attempting to introduce Ms. Rabbyt to the idea, you reinforce your feelings for her - your emotional and sexual desire for her, and particularly your love for her alone. As you work on that aspect, along with Bear's suggestions, you will be increasing her self-confidence and ego, as well as opening all of those doors of communication that are spoken of so frequently. -EBF

From your post and some of the others I have gained a greater appreciation of how important this is. When she tends to talk down about herself, her body, her looks etc... in the past I have been somewhat dismissive with comments like "Don't be silly", as she is so sexy and beautiful. I think my response should be to let her know what I'm thinking and what anyone else would and over time get her to believe that she really does look great and can be confident about herself.