When to drop the subject...

[TNT]

I don't mean to be insensitive with this post, I'm just having a hard time understanding what the big deal is here.

Swinging is not suppose to be something that causes strife, discontentment or frustration in a relationship. It's suppose to be (or should be) something that is done for fun...that little extra that adds excitement to an already great relationship.

What difference does it make if one half of a couple is a bit more picky with who they choose to play with or if it takes weeks, months or even years to find that "perfect" couple and/or single to play with? Don't ya'll have a great time with just each other? And, whatever happened to going at the pace of the slowest person?

Ted and I had a very slow swinging year last year (life is a bitch at times). There were times he wanted to play and I didn't and times I wanted to play and he didn't. Neither of us held it against the other. When one of us said we didn't feel like playing the other would always say okay, we'll just stay home and have fun with each other.

If you focus so much of your energy and time looking for playmates, complaining that you're not finding any and/or pushing your partner to increase their speed or comfort level, you're taking the chance of forgetting what a great thing you already have.

If you're not happy and content with what you've got chances are you won't be any happier with what you might find.

For those of you who are feeling frustrated because things aren't going as fast or in the way you would like...chill, it's not a race. As long as you are continuing to communicate, enjoying each other and the journey, things are okay...getting to a predetermined destination isn't going to be satisfying unless you've had fun along the way.


Teresa

[VanHlebar]

I have been reading this thread for the past few days and I have a couple of thoughts. Well first Dito to what Teresa just said. this is not a race to be won. If this isn't fun for the two of you then hey, why bother?

For the ladies that say they are "extremely picky" I have a question. Please folks don't flame the Stilfer on this one but how are you judging these folks? I ask this because as first MrsVan and I were having alot of disagreements on couples. I think alot of this happens at the beginning as the two of us were trying to figure out what the other found attractive in couples. Some here on this board at one point made a comment that has stuck with me ever since. Don't look at these playmates as if they were marriage material. You are not going to be marrying these folks, just playing with them. Once MrsVan and I talked about that we both realized that we might be judging couples by too tough of guidelines if you will. We still don't just jump in the sack with anyone, but we also look at couples and singles for that matter differently. So I was just wondering if maybe it is possible that you ladies are looking at your prospective playmates like you would if you were going to be spending the rest of your lives with them. Ok..now flame on I guess.

Also, if the guys fantasies aren't being met, well what can you do about it? Be more proactive about it or sit on the bleachers and feel sorry for yourself? Look I would love to have more FFMs but simple fact is, they are extremely difficult to pull off as single woman are just hard to find. So I don't cry about it, I am proactive and we do what we can to meet single ladies. When it happens it's great. MrsVan would love to have more MFMs also, but again we have found that finding a good single guy is just as tough. So again, we are proactive in sending out messages and putting ourselves out there to find them.

As Rebecca stated earlier, this is much more work than we thought it would be. We really thought it would be easy to find couples that would want to play. Fact is, it is not so simple and once we realized that, things got easier for us. Not easier to find folks, but we just go about it at our own pace and if something comes up great, if not, well we were together for 7 years before we got into this lifestye and our sex life wasn't ever bad to begin with. facelick

Take is slow folks...don't worry so much as to how much you are playing, but is the quality of what you are getting good? Also, you can't take any type of rejection personally. One thing the lifestyle has made both MrsVan and I do is grow some thicker skin, which isn't all that bad either.

-Van

[MoonLightKiss]

Originally Posted by TNT

For those of you who are feeling frustrated because things aren't going as fast or in the way you would like...chill, it's not a race. As long as you are continuing to communicate, enjoying each other and the journey, things are okay...getting to a predetermined destination isn't going to be satisfying unless you've had fun along the way.


Teresa

You are right. Which is why we are really trying to communicate it out. I do not know about the DBL & Fem D but for us, frustration is happening, but its not a huge amount. Usually what happened is I said no, he would say geesh, any yes's at all? in an exasperated voice. The first few times I let it go and now I feel, oh whats the word, not pressured but maybe a little frustrated back, like maybe I am not picking out enough couples for us to get enough yes's to play more regularly than we do. But we are communicating and you are quite right about that being important. We are getting back on track as far as enjoying the ride, just taking a bit of time to get there fully. I have every confidence that this is just a hitch in the journey and that we will get through it. Which I might not have communicated clearly with my last post as it was 2 am I am also equally confident that the D's will be able to work past it as well.

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

Please folks don't flame the Stilfer on this one but how are you judging these folks? -Van

I would never presume to flame you Unless of course hot is how you like it

I don't think I am being overly picky. I try to avoid those that scream drama from their post, look for someone I try to have at least a basic chemistry with, and clean. Unfortunately in our area its VERY VERY slim pickings, and the nearest club (that we know of) is several hours away, so if we were to make plans to go there, they would have to be overnight plans, and its hard to plan ahead of time for that. Usually the grandparents don't know if they are able to take the grandkids til last minute.

But no, I am not looking for couples to "date" or even get to be best friends with. I like friendship, but I don't HAVE to have it. But a basic, yeah, I get along with, chemistry is there, I can carry on a conversation for more than 2 minutes without thinking they are an idiot or a jackass is about all I really gotta have.

[Fred&Wilma]

In brief:
- Married 30 years (Wahoo!!!)

- Been discussed off and on for almost 25 years. (First time, really?, ding, ding, ding!)

- Discussed rarely. (Oh look, a blue moon)

- Situation hot (Let's find someone else to screw around with)

- Situation cold (Too tall, too short, too whatever)

- Goes only as fast as the slowest partner. (If both of us do not agree, it is not going to happen)

- Sometimes open honest discussion. (Honey I would really like to try)

- Sometimes all sorts of innuendo. (Comments about alternate sexual partners, but non-specific)

- Sometime realistic comments and sometimes not. (Yes the average couple would probably be interested, but holding out for a Brad and Angelina type would not be fruitful).

It may not ever happen, then again it may and probably on a moments notice when it does. However if it does not, it will not be the end of the world.

Do not think I will ever throw in the towel, but will be realistic about it too.

Fred

[TheSwingerSet]

I also have been reading this thread carefully, the reason being is that I (male half) am the picky one, Leah is very go with the flow and can find attractivness in most people. I on the other hand usually need some kind of connection for everything to work right.

We have been active swingers for over 14 years and Leah does not get fustrated or upset when we can't find a couple or single fem that I am attracted to, we just have fun ourselves and and know that in the future we will have another chance to make that connection.

One thing that has helped us is I have no issue with her having her fun and then us going home or to our hotel room.... We can do this because I love to see her, hear her, watch her, giving and recieving pleasure.

Hope this throws some light on a situation that most couples in our experience face at one time or another.

K

[DBL D]

Well....Thank you to all who have taken the time to help us out.

First, I want to start out by saying. We have been together for 30 years.
We have the best sex we've ever had with each other and really do love one another.
The idea of the lifestyle came from him 3 years ago. I was VERY upset because I really thought our marriage was stone strong. Not realizing at the time that it wasn't that he was unhappy with me, he just wanted something alittle extra. I had my feeling hurt for a very long time, even as we entered the lifestyle.
We talked for 3mo. and 5mos later we played with our first couple. It was really hard for me to have sex or see him have sex with someone else. And YES........we should NOT have continued until I felt better.
I'm the type of person that want's to work and work till I get it perfect.
So here we are now and I feel like I'm still working and not having as much fun as I should be having.

This is what I think Male D is talking about it being so frustrating. So the fantasies that he may have are long in coming. That would be FMF, MFM, MMF,dp,and other things. I think you get the idea. I guess you would call it the norm in the lifestyle. All I can say to him is it will all cummmm with time.
Most of what he desires is fine with me, it's just ME getting comfy to get to that point. I'm still in the full swap couples page for now.

Now, you ask about reminding him how good I've been. I take little baby steps and to me thay have been BIG steps. So I can see how he thinks I'm taking so long. But my steps are good,postive, and will be larger as we keep looking and playing. And we all know how long it takes to find the couple that you really feel a GOTTA HAVE thing going on with.

Wev'e been talking alot this weekend, our communication can sometimes be BLOCKED for what ever reasons.
I have notice over the years that he does get his mind around something and wont let go until this kind of thing happens. That is something we have worked on together and I have to remind him that's whats happening and as you said TNT "CHILL". And focus that energy in looking around for new playmates or on us.

Male D is a good man, so if I have made him look like a bad guy .
That' NOT what I was trying to do here and I hope you all understand.

Thanks again to ALL,
Fem D

[DBL D]

I also want to thank everyone who has read and posted.

My question was regarding how long a person would continue to bring up a subject that just doesn't seem to hold the same interest to your SO.

When we hear that our SO is interested in the lifestyle but doesn't move as fast as we'd like to see, it becomes frustrating. Unfortunately, as you can see from most of my posts, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I do take advice on backing off, seeing what will happen, etc. But if I were to temper my feelings so that what I say isn't really what I feel, then I don't feel I get my point across.

Fem D and I are both Capricorns...we're both perfectionists and have different ways in dealing with that. Capricorns are also known for putting things off. I'd reached the point in my life where I felt pressure to do things I had always thought of and that's how the subject came up. I've always know that I was more adventureous than my wife and for that reason a conflict within myself started to develop where I started feeling like my life was slipping away without accomplishing those things, much like knowing that you would never get that higher postition at work or shooting par on a golf course, I started to have this feeling of doom...even though at the time Fem D and I were having the best sex of our lives and had a very nice feeling of stability in our marriage.

That's where the "frustrating life" statement came into it. Going back to knowing that I would, and therefore we would, never become sexually open with other people. In order to relieve that frustration that I felt and Fem D was feeling, for different reasons, I had suggested several times that we just stop the searching. I am willing to be frustrated. I am willing to become vanilla again for the sake of our marriage, which it seemed I was damaging by my requests of her to become more involved in the swinging part of it. It was a very personal frustration that I was willing to live with to have Fem D in my life. She would say that she wanted to go on and that I didn't recognize her progress and give her little pats for it.

My Bad!

Yes, we all have fantasies, obviously more or less, and different from each other. Fem D doesn't think about sex like I do. As often or anything like that, perhaps to protect something in our relationship. Now I'm a sex addict for wanting it. I do have a tendency to get totoally involved in something I'm interested in. That works for those things that don't involve your SO but when it came to dealing with our tastes in the lifestyle we seemed to clash on it. I damn well know that most of us have gone through that. I'm also damn well sure that other couples have or have had the same feelings of frustration with our SO on how to get the most out of this lifestyle without going crazy with it. I guess I'm totally envious on how some seem to take it so easy and others seem to struggle with it.

That is why I asked the questions. I wanted to know how long to go with it, even though I realize it's not a race. It does take up mental energy and I was wanting some inspiration or guidance on what we should do.

Anyway, once again I, and Fem D, want to thank everyone for their inputs. They have been helpful and Fem D and I have had some real and good conversation about what we're looking for. Me with my fantasies and her with just continuing to get more comfortable.

Male D

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by DBL D

Hopefully there are a few lurkers or others who can answer this question:

How long would you consider promoting the lifestyle to your SO before you decided that either it was the worst thing you had ever decided to bring up with your SO or realize that it is just to much to handle and just drop the subject?

We have heard a lot about how to bring up the subject to your SO but what made you decide that your fantasy is just too much to deal with before you quit trying? I'm sure you have tried to be patient with your SO on this but there must come a time when you say it isn't worth it and go back to living your own frustrated life without the realization of your fantasies?

Male D

I appologize in advance because I didn't take the time to read the whole thread.

As for me, I once bring the swinging subject to my wife. Her denial was so strong that I dropped the subject without having to ask twice. I choose to play my/our fantasies among the two of us alone, and since I know there are many fantasies that are just that, and I can live without bringing them to reality, I just threw it in the "not meant to be fulfilled" bag.

My wife was the one who bring the subject back many years later, and as she told me, the fact that I threw it in that bag helped her to change her mind: she knew I had that fantasy and gave it up just to be with her, open to enjoy "watever was meant to be filfilled", she started having the same sort of fantasies and finally said "why not?".

I think "enough" is when you're hurting your spouse feelings, and "way more than enough" when you're risking your entire marriage.

However, it called my attention your last sentence (I put it in bold). At any time when I understood it was "enough", I felt something leading me to express it the same way you did.

We swing because we CAN, and not because we NEED to. If we were feeling we NEED to swing to "survive" or to avoid some frustration, they we would feel we're in deep sh*t, so much that we wouldn't be able to even try it without tearing appart our relationship.

And this is what my wife perceived from me: after many years she felt reasured that this fantasy of mine wasn't a NEED. She began exploring the same fantasies without being a NEED for herself. So, it didn't impose any sort of risk to our relationship to give it a try... we tried and we noticed we CAN.

The problem is, as soon as you put the frustration as the price for giving up your fantasies, you're only expressing a frustration that is already there, inside your marriage, between you two. And this isn't the proper place from where to start swinging.