Ladies can you help me get my wife to swing with a male friend?

[funseeking]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

No, I don't think so at all. And you can't control whether he'll be good for her in the sack or visa-versa. Only they will know if the chemistry to make good sex is there. And until they try, they'll never know. And so what if it isn't?
The answer is "yes" and "no". I don't know your relationship. I can tell you from experience that Mrs. WS gets very friendly with the playmates she has chemistry with, almost polyamorous... well, more then almost. So I know how it is when my wife has a crush on another guy. And its great to see her so enthused about it. But, I know she isn't going to leave me. I know I am her one and only true love and the rest are just that... crushes.

I don't know your wife, but if you and her think you can handle it then I say go for it. Just move ahead with caution because there may not be hurt feelings now, but you never know when the green-eyed monster will rear its ugly head.

Mr. WS

Well I too know that we are soul mates and so does she. I am certain that she will never leave me for this man or any other because we have been through so very much together and our love for each other is so deep and mature. We have a very good relationship.

SO I can trust her to "have fun" without getting worried that she will leave me. I know that I could have a blast of a time with another woman and never leave my wife...I would never leave her because she is as near perfect for me as she can be, although nobody is perfect.

Funny, I don't have a desire to be with another woman because she does not like the idea. Her saying "no way honey" actually prevents me from wanting it, and that is how much I love and respect her.

[Coupleinidaho]

Originally Posted by funseeking

This man is married but has a marriage of convenience for sure. He does not love his wife and he has told me.

(Mr. here)First off, I can't believe I'm the first commenter to address the above. Anyway, so what you're saying is that you are supporting the growth of a sexual relationship between your wife, and a married man? A married man with a wife who has no clue what's going on? Besides the absolute wrongness of the situation itself...are you really willing to take the risk, (if sex play between your wife and him actually occurs), that his wife will find out and open a can of worms that would impact your life, work, etc., in a negative way? Never under-estimate a woman scorned...and when you throw in non-mainstream sex (namely that your wife has your encouragement), it's a powder keg. That kind of gossip travels like wildfire, and usually finds it's way into the workplace, one way or another.

My wife asked me if I want her to reduce the time that she spends with him and I said no because I am happy for that she is having a great time doing all sorts of "neat" and interesting things.

I bet my bottom dollar that his wife already suspects something. A married man doing "all sorts of neat and interesting things" with a woman other than his wife, is begging for discovery. Again, if she has not given approval for him to venture outside their marriage, it really shows that this guy has no class, and is not worthy of the gift that he would receive by playing with your wife.

She told him how I think and feel and he thinks I am crazy. I told her that I think a sexual relationship with this guy would be a great thrill and a great experience for her and that I actually think it can actually make us closer as a couple. In fact I think it can even result in a better sex life for us. She told him how I think and feel and he thinks I am crazy. He told me that he just cannot understand how I can think this way.

I don't dispute a more varied and exciting sex life with swinging/MFM, or that it could bring you and your wife closer...I just think that choosing this guy is a mistake. Also, if he doesn't understand how you feel about your wife playing with him, can he respect the boundaries, or will that be blurry?

Although she is still only interested in being a friend I know that she is "thinking about it" because she told me that she is afraid that if they ever did get sexual that SHE would not live up to his standards. I told her that she is great in bed and that would not be an issue and that I am worried that he would not live up to her standards and that she might be disappointed in the whole adventure.

The gift of being sexually intimate with a married woman, with her husbands approval, is more then enough for any guy to drool over. I don't think she needs to worry at all. Just pick a different guy.

[funseeking]

Originally Posted by Coupleinidaho

(Mr. here)First off, I can't believe I'm the first commenter to address the above. Anyway, so what you're saying is that you are supporting the growth of a sexual relationship between your wife, and a married man? A married man with a wife who has no clue what's going on? Besides the absolute wrongness of the situation itself...are you really willing to take the risk, (if sex play between your wife and him actually occurs), that his wife will find out and open a can of worms that would impact your life, work, etc., in a negative way? Never under-estimate a woman scorned...and when you throw in non-mainstream sex (namely that your wife has your encouragement), it's a powder keg. That kind of gossip travels like wildfire, and usually finds it's way into the workplace, one way or another.

I bet my bottom dollar that his wife already suspects something. A married man doing "all sorts of neat and interesting things" with a woman other than his wife, is begging for discovery. Again, if she has not given approval for him to venture outside the relationship, it really shows that this guy has no class, and is not worthy of the gift that he would receive by playing with your wife.

I don't dispute a more varied and exciting sex life with swinging/MFM, or that it could bring you and your wife closer...I just think that choosing this guy is a mistake. Also, if he doesn't understand how you feel about your wife playing with him, can he respect the boundaries, or will that be blurry?

The gift of being sexually intimate with a married woman, with her husbands approval, is more then enough for any guy to drool over. I don't think she needs to worry at all. Just pick a different guy.

Thanx for the comments.

This fellow is never home and has never been home for years. He is out every day til late with his many friends. His marriage is over and was over a long time ago. This he told my wife and me.

I don't have a problem with my wife being with him but I would if he had a good marriage.

[sereneiders]

Well, why does swingers swing would be a great question that deserve it own thread for sure, and I'd suggest you to ASK swingers why they swing instead of rushing in conclussions that may (or may not) be wrong.

It's has been said within one person there are three different persons, who such a person believe he/she is, who others believe he/she is, and who actually he/she is. Since "who you are" is a matter of subjectivity, that third person is and will be beyond our knowledge, thus we deal with the first two persons: who you believe you are, and who others believe you are.

You may believe there is a communication problem here, that you cannot explain something or the we're missing some points. In the other hand, a lot of members here have enough experience as to foresight facts coming from personal attitudes, and we've been reading a lot of post from people willing to swing with very different attitudes and scenaries. Some of us may missunderstand you, but so far it seems we share the same understanding of what's going on with you two from your own words.

It seems you perception of yourself differs from the perception whe have about you, and it is you choice to stick to your self perception, or to pay attention to the perception of the people around you.

So far, no one endorsed your idea. We all may be wrong, but at least this worth a tought.

As I said before, it would be good if you invite your wife to this forum. Besides of being usefull for her, it would help us to listen the other bell and to have another subjective perception about you comming from someone who actually knows you better. It'd be also important for us to know if she is asking for help to reach the same goals you have here.

You say "it is about her", but all we have are your words, as for me, it is about what you think about her and about your own desires. Even being honest, your may be blinfolded by your enthusiasm.

It was pointed out she may be risking a friendhip, as for me that's enough to say no. Most swingers here would say no in the same scenario, and wouldn't trade fun and sex for friendship, and it doesn't have anything to do with our sexuality or how "open minded" we are. It is common sense. If a swinger come for advice about swinging with a friend, he/she will get an overwhelming amount of advice against doing it. Don't take my word, just take your time and read the forum to find the examples. Her denial to have sex with her friend have a lot of COMMON SENSE, it has NOTHING to do with being willing or not to swing.

You not only want her to swing, also to risk friendships. Something that would be way, way too complex to do, you want to make it even more complex for her.

In you posts you sticked to the risks that may affect you, you didn't said a word about the risk for her, even when we're telling you such a risk is real and very high (perhaps way higher that the risk of her falling in love with the other guy). I have to conclude you're fooling yourself when you say it's about her... you're relentless and merciless about something that WE KNOW will affect her, and even so you keep ignoring it.

So, this is about you. You found out a pretty nice intelectual explanation that "casually" fits your own desires, and you choose to ignore everything able to challenge that explanation... perhaps because it doesn't fit your desires.

You came here asking for advice on HOW to do it, and not asking for advice about WHAT to do, you're already convinced about what you want to do, and you'd like us to endorse it by explaining us the facts as you see them, trying to convince us to watch the world the way you're watching it.

You said you backed off. You may have stopped asking her to do it, but I suspect you keep having with your wife tha same attitude you're having here: providing intelectual explanations of suposedly theoretical things that are so reasonable that you're not supposed to even have to push her. If I am gessing right here, then you didn't backed off, you'd be naturally the kind of guy who win battles by blocking your opponets castles instead of attacking them, knowing you'll win because of starving or getting them too tired as to keep fighting. And if I were your wife, I'd say no... at least until being tired enough.

This way, the risk of her falling in love with someone else may not come for a "better" sex, it may come from finding out someone whe she doesn't need to fight against, instead to fight with.

[funseeking]

Did I make a mistake giving my wife this freedom and saying what I have said?
Would it be a mistake for her to do as I have suggested, should SHE want to?

Please read on and I will try to package this in short...


My wife and I have a great relationship with a very mature and deep love.

Over the past five years my wife has been "coming out of her shell" so to speak. She now sees herself as the beautiful woman that she is both on the inside and outside.

She asked me if it was okay for her to find a male friend... for friendship, and I encouraged her to do just that. She has found a fellow that she likes, as a friend, and who I actually like too. He is very attracted to her, as all men are, and has told her so. She thinks he is good looking but not as good looking as me. She has made it clear to him that she is only after friendship and he does respect this. He has not been "forward" with her as a result.

They do spend a lot of time together and really enjoy each other company.

My wife asked me if I want her to reduce the time that she spends with him and I said no because I am happy for that she is having a great time doing all sorts of "neat" and interesting things.

I told my wife that she is free to do anything that she wants with man and even to have a sexual relationship with her just as long as she does not allow herself to get "too" attached to this fellow. I said that I am not threatened by the thought of her with him sexually and I have no feeling of jealousy.
She really respects the fact that I have given her this freedom but she has no interest at this time in a sexual relationship.
She also assured me that she would never leave me for him or any other man.

She told him how I think and feel and he thinks I am crazy. He told me that he just cannot understand how I can think this way. I told him that it has to do with the fact that I think sex is only for pleasure UNLESS there is a deep seated love for the other person and that this love is NOT the same kind of love that one experiences in the initial falling in love experience, which my wife and I both think is simple infatuation.

I have given her this freedom to do as she wishes because I love her and I am secure with our mature and well tested love for each other.

I told her that I think a sexual relationship with this guy would be a great thrill and a great experience for her and that I actually think it can actually make us closer as a couple. In fact I think it can even result in a better sex life for us.

My only fear is that she will "do it" and then end up very disappointed because he may not be "very good". I want her experience, should she decide to go ahead with it, to be a lot of fun and a good thrilling experience. So the fact that this guy may actually be "better" than me in bed does not threaten me at all....I worry that he may "suck".

I will admit that I am turned on by the thought of my wife in bed with another women. I am turned on by the thought our her high level of enjoyment and excitment that is likely if she has sex with a new partner. But let me make this clear....this is NOT the primary reason I want her to try sex with this guy. The primary reason is for HER enjoyment, fun, adventure and experience.

I have told her that she is in control and not me or him and she likes that.

Although she is still only interested in being a friend I know that she is "thinking about it" because she told me that she is afraid that if they ever did get sexual that SHE would not live up to his standards. I told her that she is great in bed and that would not be an issue and that I am worried that he would not live up to her standards and that she might be disappointed in the whole adventure.


Now my questions
Have I made a mistake telling my wife this?
Also, would sex with another man, a man that she sees as a good friend but one that thinks that she is "hot" be too risky for our relationship?

[sereneiders]

Sorry but... isnt this thread repeated here (literally, by the way), and even more important, a "more politically right" reformulation from this one (perhaps from the fact that you dislike the answers you got)?

I know, I answered in that post you were asking HOW to do something and not WHAT to do because you seemed very convinced on what you want to do, against ALL the responses you got where you were adviced against your original approach.

This reformulation is better because now you're addressing the WHAT question, but I feel it'd be better if you keep posting in the original thread, because if you don't it seems you're being tricky and you want to take adventage of the good will this board members have (moreover, if you start several threads to discuss the same issue, allowing you to try different approaches to get what you told us you want in the original thread, sneaking around the opposition you got there).

Following my line of advice, I gess if I were your wife, I'd be saying NO if I were missunderstanding your behavior in a way that were leading me to ask myself if you're being sneaky or not.

I know I am giving you a hard time here. I feel I have the right to do so after spending my time answering you several times. I feel it is disrespectfull to this board what you're doing, so if it's a mistake, I hope you to correct it by asking Julie to merge the threads your started over.

[sereneiders]

This thread is repeated TWICE, and is a reformulation of another thread where funseeking was advice against his plans.

Please, see my post in the repeated thread, and the original thread, because I feel this very disrespecfull.

[TNT]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

This thread is repeated TWICE

Yes it was. They have all been merged into one.



Teresa

[Chandler]

I'll keep it nice and quick. Don't mix friendship with sex, leave the sex to like minded strangers only. You're better off hooking her up with a guy who doesn't have any emotional attachment. Trust me, I've been there.

[intuition897]

Okay, I'm a woman, and I'm going to give you my perspective of all this.
Although you've repeatedly stated that it's time for you to back off, and let her make her decision, you seem to be clinging to the fantasy pretty hard.

Originally Posted by funseeking

However, I still think it can do her a lot of good to be with another man. She will have a really good time and experience quite the thrill I think. I want her to be really thrilled because I want all the best for her.... yes it is a "tune on" for me to know that she is really enjoying sex and experiencing new "thrills" but this is not the primary reason why I want her to try sex with this fellow.
I think she will learn a lot about sex and enjoy sex even more after such an encounter and that it will spill over into a deeper love for me. I do think we will become even closer than we are now as a result, especially since she really respects and appreciates how I think on this matter. I love her fully and have given her complete freedom with no "reservation" on my part.

I think all this potential good(for her) will happen mainly because she has NEVER even kissed another man let alone had sex with another man.

Funseeking, this is your fantasy doing the talking here. I understand that the fantasy has arisen from your deep love for your wife, but just the same, be very careful that you do not idealize what will come from the realization of this fantasy.
Now, it seems you do understand that this "shifting gears" of the relationship will change some aspects of it, but I have to wonder if you're still trying to plan out the outcome? It can't be done. There are too many variables, and you're dealing with the human psyches of not one but three people. And where love is concerned (and because of our culture, where love exists, so must sex, right?) there is no predicting what someone will think or do.

Originally Posted by funseeking

A little about "him". He is married but has a very poor marriage. It is a marriage on convenience for sure. My wife has told him how I think and feel and he thinks I am crazy. So far he hasn't been "forward" because my wife has made it perfectly clear to him that all she wants is friendship.
...
BUT....isn't there anyone out there that thinks it will benefit her, and potentially even us as a couple, for her to have a sexual relationship with this man? Am I just crazy and foolish or am I on to something?

Again any replies are appreciated and especially from the ladies in the crowd.

Mmm-kay. I don't care WHAT kind of marriage he has, it's still a marriage, and you're fucking with it. My marriage to Mr. intuition wasn't always so peachy either. In fact, it downright sucked at some points! Yes, we considered divorce! Perhaps this is why I feel so strongly about people righting-off marriages. From the outside view, ours was a right-off. Perhaps this is one reason why your wife and this other man don't want to become sexually involved. They don't feel that it's right, maybe?

I can't help but get this image of you "playing house", and you're frustrated because you can't make the dollies play together. You can't orchestrate this sort of thing, just because you'd like to see it happen. I know, you say that it's HER decision, but you're still making it perfectly clear what your WISHES are, and that in itself is a type of coercion/pressure.

Now, if you wanted to pursue the idea of swinging, I would suggest that you do not pursue it with this other man. It may take years before your wife is ready for this sort of thing...if at all! It simply may not be for her! And if it's not, then it should mean that it's not right for you both as a couple. She is trying to tell you something with her reluctance. It may not be fear of what she has not yet experienced; it may be that she's afraid that you will have "created a monster". She knows she is not emotionally ready for this, she loves and respects you, and does not want to damage your relationship. She is likely reluctant because she knows that she will not be able to keep her friendship with this other man from balooning into a full-blown love affair if sex is involved, and too many people stand to be hurt by that. She may have no desire to separate love and sex. In which case, you might want to consider looking into polyamorous relationships...which might be her thing...and might not be yours. It would be an interesting turn of the tables, wouldn't it? Best of luck with all this.

[funseeking]

You have spoken the truth about me and you are right. You have a good way about you so I feel comforatble talking to you. Yes I am playing "house" and I am frustrated that the dollies won't play together.

But, isn't it possible for them to have a sexual relationship just for the fun of it and without "falling in love"?

Sure there is some risk that she will "fall in love" but I am so confident in my wifes love for me that I really doubt this will happen. However, he may fall in love with my wife and then she would have to end the relationship and that would be hurting him and I would be responsible because I instigated the whole sex thing. I don't want that to happen.

I want my wife to have fun and the thrills that go along with that...there goes the "I" word again. Yes, I do have this fantasy. The fantasy is about my wife having a really exciting time. I want here to be as happy as she can be....and yes this is a turn on to me.....but I am thinking about her too and not just me.

I have talked with this man and he has told me that he is seriously considering leaving his wife but I don't want a sexual realtionship with my wife to be the "final straw" in causing this to happen. In fact after reading your post I told me wife that she should not have sex with him, should she ever want to, while he is with his wife.


Also, know what, I guess I just want to be a swinger and I know that my wife never will and that bugs me....so I am trying to manipulate things so that she does try sex with another in hopes that she really likes it so that her "barriers" will go away and she will become a swinger. I know this is not the right thing to do.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by funseeking

Also, know what, I guess I just want to be a swinger and I know that my wife never will and that bugs me....so I am trying to manipulate things so that she does try sex with another in hopes that she really likes it so that her "barriers" will go away and she will become a swinger. I know this is not the right thing to do.

Honesty with one's self is probably one of the most difficult things to learn, and it sounds like you're on the right track... now the next difficult task is to actually apply to real life what you've learned.

Originally Posted by funseeking

You have spoken the truth about me and you are right. You have a good way about you so I feel comforatble talking to you. Yes I am playing "house" and I am frustrated that the dollies won't play together.

But, isn't it possible for them to have a sexual relationship just for the fun of it and without "falling in love"?

Sure there is some risk that she will "fall in love" but I am so confident in my wifes love for me that I really doubt this will happen. However, he may fall in love with my wife and then she would have to end the relationship and that would be hurting him and I would be responsible because I instigated the whole sex thing. I don't want that to happen.

You're still making suppositions. You can't rely on your assumption that your wife's love for you is strong enough to keep her from making an error in judgment. Ask her what it is that she's afraid of. If she's honest, it's likely that she will become emotionally attached to someone else (a hypothetical partner, not necessarily this other guy you mentioned).

Is it possible for them to have a NSA sexual relationship? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it. At least at this stage in the game. And that "maybe" is sporting about a .001% chance. If you keep pushing for this, you'll likely get WAY more than you bargained for. Would the other guy fall in love with your wife? I'm thinking definitely yes. The guy is hurting right now. His marriage is a shambles, and he's lonely for some intimacy. Your wife is a nice lady who wants to be his friend...nothing more. He admires this, and of course when a human being is told he/she can't have something, he/she wants it all the more. It's just human nature. He'll be overcome with thoughts about your wife, and being his friend, your wife will not want to hurt him by distancing herself from him. I have serious doubts that she will be able to avoid responding to his feelings for her. Especially in light of the fact that you seem to be pushing her toward him. She does not understand how love and sex are two separate things; in her mind, they are one entity. Inextricably linked. For her, one cannot wholly exist without the other. If we can believe this to be true about your wife's beliefs about love/sex, then it stands to reason that she would feel you should have known that this relationship with the guy couldn't POSSIBLY just end with sex. It had to become emotional. Perhaps she subconsciously realizes this, and does not want to go there. Just because you tell her that love and sex are two different things, does not mean she will understand or believe it. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by funseeking

...I guess I just want to be a swinger and I know that my wife never will and that bugs me....

How can you be so sure?

Tell her about the Swingers Board. It can't hurt to read from the privacy of your home and discuss what you find here.

Who knows, she might have already discovered this place and be posting her own questions.

LM

[sereneiders]

Dito

Altough if she already were a board member without your knowledge, this would be a huge warning label: she'd be affraid to even say "may be" because you won't give her a break until forcing her to say "yes".

I like your honesty, when you agree you're playing house. Yet, you admit it and you're still looking for ways to keep being the Master Puppeter here.

I'd say you CANNOT play dolls with people:

1) Because it is wrong, even if you succeded.
2) Because it is too risky for you, once they realize they were your puppets, should something were going wrong, you'll be the ONLY one to blame for what happend.
3) Because it would require a lot of skills that YOU DONT HAVE (sorry, it was proven once you came here, showing you don't know the variables involved, you disregard the ones we're pointing out, thus prettenfing you would be able to control and master them is merely wishfull thinking).
4) Because should you realize you were unable to fit the Master Pupetter later on, when losing control, your ego will be beaten big time.
5) Because you're playing with fire without understanding the consecuences: you want to open the Pandora box and you're naive enough to believe you'd like everithing that will pop out, should you ever meet things you dislike, you stiil didn't gave us (nor your wyfe) a clue on how you plan to deal with these.
6) Because the pursuit for control is a deffense mechanism devised to hide a low self esteem personality (believe me, I've been there), it works for as long as the control illusion remains, should you lose control you'd be forced to face your low self steem (for example, I'd ask you if you feel fit enough to sexually please your wife, and if you don't, if you want one of your puppets to act as a "fit" alterego, so it would be you by means of your puppet, the one able to please your wife).
7) Because the pursuit of control exposes a lack of confidence on your wife: she may be able to explore her sexuality with others, BUT ONLY if she does so under your own terms, both for the way you want her to behave, and for the RESULTS she'll get, thus you're telling her to fly... but inside your cage, and she may find out the cage ceiling to be too low for the wings the Master Puppeter is attaching in her back.

One of the things you need to be able to succesfully swing is to be aware of how many things are beyond your control, and up to deal with these things as they come, accepting your wife terms to develop new rules (including a "no swing allowed" rule).

So far, since you two are already talking about this and she didn't throw your clothes trought the window, I'd say it's very likely your wife have more wood than yourself to become swinger. If i am right about this, the only motivation she'd have to hold herself would be her awareness about your lack of wood, that she'd be finding out with your permanent rush for the control, and the common sense required to swing that woul'd be making her gess some or all the "becauses" from the list above as to understand swinging isn't for you, no matter how badly she'd be wanting to swing.

How do you dare to say she's not up to swing, just because she's not up to swing under the rules you want to set up unilateraly?

Make a poll, ask the "succesfull swingers" here how many of them would dare to swing without having the word and vote rights granted by their respective spouse, i.e. giving up all the control to the respective spouse. Such a poll will tells you "NO ONE OF US IS UP TO SWING".

But again, this is a symptom for your craving of control. You say "swinging" is "swinging under MY terms", and if your terms were not pressent, then it isn't "swinging".

Let it go. Start working in your own issues, those leading you to that crave for control, and once you solve these issues, ask your wife to swing. From what you said about your wife, just then I'd put money and bet she's up to swing.

[Operator]

I think you need to invite this friend to join you and the wife for a threesome.

You are the perfect candidates for a threesome....