Laying it on the line....

[tracy1878]

hubby and I talked about swinging off and on for about 4 years or so before we ever actually did anything. Just talking about it would get us both turned on and we'd have wild sex, so right there was a good benefit! I think the advice your getting is right, back off a little and let your wife chew it over in her mind. You guys never know what all we're thinking about!

[Denver2some]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Thanks, folks. Its all good here. I am enjoying my sexlife with my wife immensley right now, so anything else (ie swinging) is gravy at this point. I am enjoying the frank and open discussion I get here and its been a big help.

Very glad to hear this! I had been reading along, thinking OMG this guy is going to really blow it ... by hounding his wife to the point where she won't even want to have sex with him!

But now I see this post. And I see (thankfully) that you may be excited, but you're not carried away enough to risk what's most important.

Just be careful to not be the one making all the "suggestions." Give her time to do her thinking, and come up with suggestions of her own. (The strip club she suggested, for example ... perfect!) Otherwise, she may do something just to shut you up ... but resent it because it was "all about you." Remember that women often love mulling over ideas, and making plans for an erotic evening.

Also, I'd step way, way back on your thoughts about your college friend and his wife. There are 100 different ways that could go wrong. Not only is playing with friends risking a friendship (read the many threads here) ... having a couple already selected may cause your wife to wonder if all your pushing has to do with experiencing THIS particular woman, not swinging in general. Also, she may have no interest in either the male or the female. Better to pick out a couple together, when and if the time comes.

[SexhoundDog]

Hellboy,
I agree with the others, slow down a bit. What are you looking for anyway . . a couple full or soft swap, MFM, FMF, or ?? Have you tried watching any porn together, maybe the kind you think she's closest to wanting to try?

Either way, take your time, and you've got to be absolutely sure she doesn't think you want in it just for your jollies and she's a bargaining chip. Maybe next time you discuss it, ask her what her idea of the perfect experience would be, then follow it up with what could you do alone to give her a perfect experience, and see which one seems to turn her on the most. Really, I totally understand your impatience, but hang in there.

[Hellboy]

I know.... I'm like a kid with a new toy and I think about it all the time. As I said before, I vent alot here and what I say, as much as I talk about it, its not like that around the house here. Despite my "will she/won't she?" musings, I know my wife very well and I have no fear of really upsetting her by bringing it up. I just fear screwing up a chance at it by presenting it poorly to her.

I feel like I have talked myself into a hole with you folks. Don't worry about me and my wife, we will be fine, no matter what happens. Yeah, I would like to play a little, but if she's not down with it, I'll just have to stick with fantastic 1 on 1 sex.

[JustAskJulie]

Just relax. She has the info. DO NOT bring it up again. Let her do it if and when SHE is ready.

The more you obsess about it the more of a problem it will be for you should she decide she doesn't want to do it. You have to be ready to accept that your fate may not be to swing. You know the old saying, hope for the best, expect the worst.

[intuition897]

hellboy, just a question:
Why do you want to do this?
This will probably have a huge impact on how receptive she'll be to it. If it's because you have all these fantasies you want to fulfill, because you just love sex, because the idea of 'strange sex' makes you feel like a kid in a candy store...
So often we hear 'how can I convince my wife'. I think it would be better received by your partner to let her know why you want HER to experience the lifestyle, not you. If you focus on her fantasies and the expression of her sexuality, and give her the freedom to explore the lifestyle - without ever expecting her to reciprocate - then I'm sure she would be more comfortable with it. This may seem like an unfair position to put yourself in, but if you love one another, she will respect that gift and give it to you in return. We've found that it's something you give one another, not something you take. Just my thoughts.

[Hellboy]

ARRGGHHH! I spent 20 minutes typing a really well thought out response to everyones questions and advise and my connection died as I sent it.....Try again...

Every post I make on this thread digs a deeper hole for me and I think I am giving a poor impression of my motives and such. Let me start over. First, my previous posts on other topics give a better indication of what is going on here in Hellboyland. Aside from that, let me try and sum up.....

My wife and I have a great marriage and a tremendous sex life. We've been married for 6 years and are stronger today than any other day in the past. My motivations for approaching my wife on the topic of swinging are varied and some are indeed selfish. (I am human) But the bottom line is that I want her to experience pleasure and freedom greater than I alone can give her.

For the past six months, she has been going to the gym religiously and gotten into fantastic shape. Her libido has exploded and the sex has taken a quantum leap forward. We have introduced a number of new elements into the equation and each time it has made the experience better and better. A year ago, she was afraid to go into an adult video store, now she walks in like she owns the place.

I like to think I am pretty good in the sack. But even then, there are things I cannot give her. The touch of a woman, the release of recieveing pleasure by more than one person at a time, the thrill of the chase, the anxious moments exploring someone you are not as familiar with as the person you sleep next to every night. I can't give her another inch or two(ouch! that's tough to say!) For me, I want basically the same things, exploring sexuality with an unfamiliar person. But the big thing for me is to give her release and freedom. The craving is there, the attraction is there. She has never been as hot as the night of our excursion to the strip club. Her fantasies are important to her, but she has a hard time expressing them without the guilt and shame built up by years in a sheltered environment.

Even when she lived away from home and partied pretty hard in college, she was always the grounded one in her circles of friends, the on the rest turned to to keep them somewhat straight, a motherly figure in the absence or a real one. But deep down, she wanted to be the one having fun, letting go and enjoying herself. This is an opportunity to walk a little bit on the wild side and explore our sexuality.

I felt bad when she told me what a fantastic time she had out on my birthday only to follow it up with admissions of guilt. Alot of people here have overcome that, being the chief obstacle to attaining a heightend sexual freedom. That's what I want to do. I want to let her know its okay to persue those desires, I want to lift the barriers and remove the obstacles so she can enjoy herself. If I have to nudge a little, that's one thing. I don't want to pressure her or guilt her into doing anything. But every other thing we have tried to expand our sexual horizon has turned out better than we had hoped and I hope this is no different.

If she decides she cannot do it, to me it will be like not winning the lottery. A minor dissapointment, but I won't freak out or get depressed. As evidenced by the 4 orgams she had Sunday night with me, its not something we NEED, but I think its something we both want. Just, we are at different stages, though the impetus to take that step has to come from somewhere, one of us has to bring it up as a topic for discussion and I guess that is me.

Perhaps the letter was over the top, but it was damage control for some things I had said prior to that. You all know how tenuous this can be approaching these subjects and I, like I did with some of the above posts, planted my foot in my mouth.

So I hope that paints a more complete picture of where Hellboy's head is at and puts to rest any fears I am nuts or driving my marriage off a cliff. That most assuredly is not the case. We are stronger as a couple each day, sex or not, and this, which ever way it goes, won't change that. Cheers and thanks. Its all good here.

BTW : She reminded me the other day that I had neglected to bring her to the board and show her around. Time has not permitted such(heh she crashed out @ 9:00) and I am here because I am a night owl. What can I say. This is when I usually work on my novel anyhow, but I am taking a break from that. But she wants to come visit, so that's good news.

[DBStPete]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

I felt bad when she told me what a fantastic time she had out on my birthday only to follow it up with admissions of guilt. Alot of people here have overcome that, being the chief obstacle to attaining a heightend sexual freedom. That's what I want to do. I want to let her know its okay to persue those desires, I want to lift the barriers and remove the obstacles so she can enjoy herself. If I have to nudge a little, that's one thing. I don't want to pressure her or guilt her into doing anything. But every other thing we have tried to expand our sexual horizon has turned out better than we had hoped and I hope this is no different.

Then it needs to be about HER. Entirely and completely. 100%. Your human desires don't enter into it. Can you do that? If you can do that, and mean it, and pursue it with all the passion you've shown so far, then you can do this. But I think that's going to be the best way, maybe the only way.

Don't worry, if it works you'll get yours and then some. Nothing is as giving as a happy woman, god bless their dear souls.

Help her explore her inner sexual desires, and her fantasies. Help her work out her guilts. Spend a year or two on just her. If she's half the woman she sounds she'll have plenty of material for you. Do all that, and talking her into swinging won't be an issue.

Mr. DBStPete

[intuition897]

Sorry if I came off as sounding condescending! I didn't mean to. It sounds like you guys have a great marriage going for you and it's just a matter of *sigh* time and patience. There shouldn't be any reason to withhold the truth from her about your own desires and fantasies; I'm just suggesting that the emphasis should be on one's partner's desires and fantasies.

"Don't worry, if it works you'll get yours and then some. Nothing is as giving as a happy woman, ... "

I think that was just what I meant. Just give and trust her to realize the value of your gift. If she refuses to respect it (doesn't sound like that'll be a problem), deal with that problem when it arises. This is what Mr. Intuition and I have found to be the best solution for us.

[Hellboy]

Got it. Being where I am(about anything goes) it has to be about her, giving her what she desires. Just removing the obstacles from her getting there. If I express an idea and she says no, there won't be any "cmon, do it for me, I want to do that" That never entered into the thought process. I think we can put this thread to bed now. Not to worry folks, all is good in Hellboyland.

[sex4us]

Hi!
I agree with what everyone has to say. My husband was also impatient, but he waited patiently for 11 years. I kind of knew I had a wilder side of myself but was so afraid to bring it out. When you are an only daughter, catholic, not given freedom too explore and had cultural issues in the family you've grown up in, it is very hard to break old habits. For me, I had so many things to take care of, sex was the last thing on my mind and always too tired to have it. I did get mad, upset everytime to he brought it up. I felt inadequate, wasn't enough for him, but we would talk and talk when we had bonding time together, and I did get over my insecurities and I gave him the permission and some ground rules. He would do the same for me. We're just starting to meet new people online and very informative reading everyone's experiences and thoughts.

Give her time, she'd be the one to open both your doors to new experiences.

sex4us

[Hellboy]

Folks, its all good. I have recieved some "counseling" from a respected member here and not at all worried. In fact we did have "the talk" and she did say no and then we had fantastic sex. What she said was it was too much too fast (duh!) and not to bring it up for a while.....for a while? hmmm....oh well, message recieved, and oh yeah, it was her who began the talk and me that finished it by backing way off.

As I sit here in the glow of another session of great lovemaking, I wanted to tell everyone : You were right, I am moving too fast with the swinging thing. But the important point is that our relationship is such that it doesn't matter. Yeah, I may have set back the time table for moving up into a more exploratative mode sexually, but that's it. This is not going to make even a scratch in our iron clad marriage (sure, everyone thinks that until they are served with divorce papers, but...) In other words, trust me, I know what I am doing. Fear not, for either way, I am a happy man and according to my wife, so is she (I think her exact words were "Oh, God, I am cuming again!)

Cheers!

[Denver2some]

So glad to hear your talk (and other things) went well, Hellboy.

Congrats on both!

[robnbarb]

Hellboy-your story sounds like mine from about 4 years ago.

One thing you should know that I learned from some friends after they disccused the lifestyle is that there is a new level of trust after a conversation like this. Basicly you have shared something you would normaly keep way down in your soul. How can you not trust someone after that.

[Hellboy]

My first reaction to that comment is that with us, there is already complete trust. But upon deeper pondering, its not a deeper trust, but more of a horizontal move, I suppose. From being in the conversation first hand, it was never about not being satisfied and wanting to be with other people. But to share something that you might think would offend your partner does create another form of trust. And its a morality issue with us. She trusts our relationship enough, its just the 'wrongness' of it. Which time will tell if that changes. We'll see, but I'm not overly concerned. We just had great sex again and I am happy. Except the cinnamon Good Head stuff burns a little on her. Hey, she bought it, not my fault!