Can there be "fairness" in swinging?

I have been reading posts regarding rules, and whether these rules can be construed as double standards, i.e., if the male half of a couple is interested in swapping with another couple or a FMF, but not cool with a MFM.

While some posts have described this as a double standard, others have argued that it's OK, as the male half of the couple is taking a risk with his feelings and only wants to involve other men who are taking the same risk, thereby helping to avoid single men who are just out for free sex (without regard or respect for the man who is making this "free sex" possible).

Personally, I find rules to be a little tiresome, and spontaneity is much preferred. The problem with this is that in our experience (2 happy years together without actual swinging, but keeping our eyes open), an opportunity for a FMF is once in a blue moon, while at the same time single men would be lining up for the opportunity for a MFM.

I brought up some recent fantasies to my girlfriend last night, and mentioned that I'd like to hook up with another couple, to do a same-room swap and enjoy watching each other get off with other hot people. She wasn't opposed, but said that the specific idea of another couple sounds contrived and preplanned, and I have to agree with her. However, Murphy's Law dominates my life, and I am absolutely sure that if we ever decided to be more proactive about realizing this fantasy (minus any "rules" or "arrangements"), we'd only be bringing men home, and after a while, I would inevitably begin to feel cheated out of an integral part of my fantasy. I suppose she would feel deprived, too, as she's turned on by the thought of girl-girl action.

My whole point is that, for someone starting out (and nervous about it), it's not really Murphy's Law, it's reality: the entire social/sexual dynamic out there inevitably tilts swinging (or open-minded sensuality, or whatever you want to call it) in favor of the women involved, regardless of whether they're straight, bi- or bi-curious. Like I said, on some level, everyone thinks rules are lame, but it's also lame to have such lopsided fantasy fulfillment.

Anyway, this is not something we're likely to ever argue about; we have a super sex life, and will continue to keep our eyes open for something that appeals to both of us (but I'm not holding my breath).

[sportync]

You are right to state that sexual activity seems to be slanted in favor of women, but face it, it's their body which will be invaded, so they really should have some say in just who will be allowed to go there. The women own all of the pussy and ever since the first man offered a scrap of food to a woman in exchange for sex, women have been in control of it, unless taken by force or coersion. That explains why women can be quite contented to go out and just be looked at and desired, where men go out and hope and pray that they will get lucky. Casual sex is always available to an attractive woman, so they tend to look for something a little more difficult to find. Most men, on the other hand, only control their fantasies about casual sex and only actually get to partake if it if a woman freely offers it. So, yes, there are a million single guys that would love a chance to tag your wife, yet there are far fewer women who might be tempted into a tryst with you and your wife. That's just the way it is, fair or not. But if you think that your wife would truely enjoy the attention of you and another guy and if you think that you might be turned on by such a situation, then give it a shot. You both might be suprised how erotic such a situation can actually be. I've had the pleasure of seeing my wife with me and another man and I've enjoyed her and another woman. Both are memories I recall often and with great pleasure. Sportync

[Vjklander]

I gave up on 'fair' a long time ago. A stint in the military will do that for ya. The double standard unreg identifies exists in some situations, but so what. Either you accept it or reject it. If that is the way all the parties want to play fine, if not, then don'y play. We are as apt to do FMF as MFM, but we prefer MFMF. Obviously, finding one partner in sync with us is a lot easier than finding two, but that's the way it is. In our experience, there are many more couples playing with single males than with single females. The females we play with are generally bi. From a simple biological perspective, it is much easier for one woman to satisfy two guys than one guy to satisfy two women. Especially, if the females are straight. The basic rule we go by is that sex is supposed to be fun, and if anyone is not having fun for whatever reason then stop.
J

[JandCMI]

I think, as a male half of a couple, I agree with your post. Both C and I look at single men in not so positive of a light and, needless to say, want absolutely nothing to do with a MFM including one of them. You hit the nail right on the head in the second paragraph I quoted. I like to paraphrase it like this: "You cant come to our party unless you bring a dish of your own!"

This, however, is not to say we would be completely against the idea if it was with someone we knew and trusted...perhaps the male half of a couple we have known for a while on C's birthday, for example.

You are also right about the double standard thing. We both would enjoy a FMF, even with a relative stranger. I guess I will put this in extremely simple terms...with a FMF we both win, but with a MFM only she wins, and we are in it for both of us

Originally posted by Unregistered
I have been reading posts regarding rules, and whether these rules can be construed as double standards, i.e., if the male half of a couple is interested in swapping with another couple or a FMF, but not cool with a MFM.

While some posts have described this as a double standard, others have argued that it's OK, as the male half of the couple is taking a risk with his feelings and only wants to involve other men who are taking the same risk, thereby helping to avoid single men who are just out for free sex (without regard or respect for the man who is making this "free sex" possible).

[muffinkm]

Originally posted by JandCMI
I think, as a male half of a couple, I agree with your post. Both C and I look at single men in not so positive of a light and, needless to say, want absolutely nothing to do with a MFM including one of them. You hit the nail right on the head in the second paragraph I quoted. I like to paraphrase it like this: "You cant come to our party unless you bring a dish of your own!"

This, however, is not to say we would be completely against the idea if it was with someone we knew and trusted...perhaps the male half of a couple we have known for a while on C's birthday, for example.

You are also right about the double standard thing. We both would enjoy a FMF, even with a relative stranger. I guess I will put this in extremely simple terms...with a FMF we both win, but with a MFM only she wins, and we are in it for both of us

Golly Gee. My feelings are completely different. If either of us are gratified we both win. Your relationship will achieve a much higher plane when you develop the ability to share pleasure. Empathy is a great quality to develop in swinging

[Silkywt]

"Golly Gee. My feelings are completely different. If either of us are gratified we both win. Your relationship will achieve a much higher plane when you develop the ability to share pleasure. Empathy is a great quality to develop in swinging
"

I totally agree with you Muffin. First of all, each to thier own there is nothing better than to explore and develop your fantasies with each other. Maybe we're the strange ones though, because of our ability to totally get into each others pleasure with others. This means FMF and MFM... ty RL <kiss>

[Flori_DAMAN]

Swingers are so varied in there interersts, tolerance and fantasies. It is really hard to put them into any group. I personally would have been content with just MMF,s and an occasional couple swap, cuz MMF's are much more intense to me. Something bout the pleasure of my wife sharing me with someone else. Now im on the other end of the stick again though and my fantasy is still the same...odd huh.


John

[Silkywt]

Swingers are so varied in there interersts, tolerance and fantasies. It is really hard to put them into any group.

I totally agree with you Daman Everyone is different and wants different things... I was just being thankful that for us, those wants and needs are pretty much along the same lines Its a wonderful world <giggle>

[Flori_DAMAN]

Originally posted by Silkywt
Swingers are so varied in there interersts, tolerance and fantasies. It is really hard to put them into any group.

I totally agree with you Daman Everyone is different and wants different things... I was just being thankful that for us, those wants and needs are pretty much along the same lines Its a wonderful world <giggle>

This is the most wonderful world I live in.

John

[biyamamama]

Okay, here's what hubby & I have learned in our 13+ years of swinging: there is no "fairness" because we don't think of what is "fair" or "unfair" to either one of us. What we think about is this: is my partner having a good time? Is my partner getting pleasure from what is taking place? My pleasure comes from seeing my partner getting pleasure, whether it comes from me or someone else, and he feels the same way. And this doesn't just apply to sex-it applies to all aspects of life.

("Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."
--Oscar Wilde)

Try to stop thinking about what is "fair" and start thinking about your partner.....it's worked for us for 16 years!

But that's just my 2 cents....

[Silkywt]

My pleasure comes from seeing my partner getting pleasure, whether it comes from me or someone else,

THAT is what its all about Sharing pleasure. adventures...

[2New2it]

Fair has never even entered my mind because I get as much pleasure seeing her enjoy sex as if I was the one pleasuring her. We have never done the couple thing yet, but have been in several threesomes of both combinations. To us it just seems more comfortable than with another couple.

As another post said, it's biologically easier for a woman to accomodate two men than the other way around, so that is our favorite combination. I never feel cheated, especially when I see that look of contentment on her face that lasts for several days.

[biyamamama]

"I never feel cheated, especially when I see that look of contentment on her face that lasts for several days."

That's just how my hubby feels; he said it great to share me since he knows how much pleasure I'm getting, and in turn that gives him pleasure. That's what love is all about: wanting your partner to be as happy as possible!

[Flori_DAMAN]

Cheating can be a part of swinging. If one partner feels slighted, which can happen, she'he may be righfully experience the feeling of being cheated on. If one partner insists on everything goint their way that isn't right and it is a form of cheating.

Congrats on 16 years of not having to deal with that issue. If you look waaay back did you at any point? Just curious, because sometimes we forget our baby steps.

John

[biyamamama]

I disagree: cheating should NEVER be a part of swinging. If it is, then you shouldn't swing. Jealousy has no place in the Lifestyle.

If one partner insists on everything going their way, then that person is being selfish and not thinking of their partner or caring if their partner is getting pleasure from the experience. If a partner feels slighted, something is quite wrong, and serious communication should take place with the other partner to clear up the misunderstanding.

To answer your question: "If you look waaay back did you at any point? Just curious, because sometimes we forget our baby steps. " No= neither my husband nor myself in our 16 years together and 13+ years of swinging, ever felt jealous of the other or slighted in anyway. We have swing open as a couple and I have attended many swing events as a single female, with his approval. Perhaps we've been very lucky or just communicate well with each other our expectations and boundaries in the Lifestyle. Either way, we haven't ever had to deal with those issues. Hope that answered your question!