Having Boundaries = personal hangups or jealousy

[dezaray]

How come a lot ofexperienced people SEEM to have this opinion that any time someone has limits/boundaries, it's a hang-up or they're being jealous?

[LOL_OMG]

Not quite sure what you mean Dez. Early on we had lots of boundaries, code words, rules and stuff. We met experienced people and they really didn't seem to have a problem with it (especially since we were new). Maybe we were just lucky in the people we found...

[fun4Ds]

limits and boundries were always a good thing to us, as long as everyones were discussed. we are not shure on what you mean.

[good times]

Originally Posted by dezaray

How come a lot ofexperienced people SEEM to have this opinion that any time someone has limits/boundaries, it's a hang-up or they're being jealous?

I think most people have some limits/boundries, even experienced swingers. It has been our experience though, that if a couple has excessive amounts of rules and boundries they usually have issues like jealousy or insecurity in their relationship. Either that or they are just really new, we were like most others here when we first started. We had so many rules we couldn't even remember them all. Now we have very few, because it didn't take us long to see that our excessive amount of rules created more problems than they prevented. Additionally, we spent so much time worrying about not breaking our rules that it pretty much got in the way of the fun. That is also why now if we meet a couple that has too many rules, or rules that seem odd to us (like no kissing) we just politely pass.

[Spoomonkey]

We started out with a lot of rules - but those kind of disappeared when we realized that the key issue is respect.

If you have that, you're fine.

I don't know that rules are really a sign of anything - everyone goes through the lifestyle their own way. Their rules might be too constrictive for us - might make the experience less than fun - but everyone has to realize their own comfort zones and recognize those with whatever boundaries are appropriate.

Spoomonkey

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by dezaray

How come a lot ofexperienced people SEEM to have this opinion that any time someone has limits/boundaries, it's a hang-up or they're being jealous?

I think this is a bit of a generalization. I don't think allot of experienced swingers feel this way, especially since we all had a long list of rules when we started. I know we did, and I we know exactly where others are when they enter the lifestyle. I feel most of the people we know feel the same way. If you are one that has this long list of rules I can see how it'd look like that, though.

Mr. WS

[Chicup]

Let me give you a REAL example of boundries that tell an experianced swinger that they are not 'ready' to swing.


What else would you like to say, do, see, hear about or learn about.
THESE ARE THE THINGS WE WILL DO IF THE MOOD IS RIGHT:
1]Explore female-female fantasies (no set limits)
2]Your man - kissing and above waste contact with me
3]Your woman - kissing and above waste contact with my husband
4]Same room sex (with spouse)

THESE ARE THE THINGS WE MIGHT DO:
1] My husband/Your woman - everything but intercourse.
2] Me/Your husband - a work in SLOW progress, but previously let another man perform oral on me (See above). No guarantees though.

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE NOT READY FOR NOW AND MAYBE NEVER:
1] Full swap.....


This is, shall we say, a red flag :rollseyes

[Sweet_Candy]

Well put Chicup.

[JTcamp05]

Originally Posted by good times

It has been our experience though, that if a couple has excessive amounts of rules and boundries they usually have issues like jealousy or insecurity in their relationship.

Thats why!!

[Amanda69]

How come a lot ofexperienced people SEEM to have this opinion that any time someone has limits/boundaries, it's a hang-up or they're being jealous?

Also not sure what you are getting at. I haven't seen people being overly critical on couples setting limits/boundaries, in fact just the opposite. With newer couples the advice often seems to be, communication and set your limits/boundaries.

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by good times

It has been our experience though, that if a couple has excessive amounts of rules and boundries they usually have issues like jealousy or insecurity in their relationship.

To us, boundaries indicate that a couple has openly and honestly communicated with one another and has considered the risks of swinging in conjunction with the rewards. The worst offense, in our opinion, is to discover your comfort zone after the fact... Safety is our first rule, fun is secondary...

[04kingpin]

What else would you like to say, do, see, hear about or learn about.
THESE ARE THE THINGS WE WILL DO IF THE MOOD IS RIGHT:
1]Explore female-female fantasies (no set limits)
2]Your man - kissing and above waste contact with me
3]Your woman - kissing and above waste contact with my husband
4]Same room sex (with spouse)

THESE ARE THE THINGS WE MIGHT DO:
1] My husband/Your woman - everything but intercourse.
2] Me/Your husband - a work in SLOW progress, but previously let another man perform oral on me (See above). No guarantees though.

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE NOT READY FOR NOW AND MAYBE NEVER:
1] Full swap.....


This is, shall we say, a red flag

So There is no middle ground? Do all your vanilla friends have issues then?
A lot of people here seem to think that it's all or nothing. So where is the boundry in your mind that tells you the flag is green and not red. Most people have boundries of some sort and that dont mean they are "not ready". We prefer same room together, no anal with the "other" guy, and no playing without our SO there. How about no cream pies? Are we a red flag? Are you BI? If you are not, does that mean you have issues? Of course it does. It means you dont want suck a dick. So are you a red flag? To some people you are. You have your boundies-limits and so do we. This does not mean we should not be in the lifestyle.

Quote:
How come a lot ofexperienced people SEEM to have this opinion that any time someone has limits/boundaries, it's a hang-up or they're being jealous?



Also not sure what you are getting at. I haven't seen people being overly critical on couples setting limits/boundaries, in fact just the opposite. With newer couples the advice often seems to be, communication and set your limits/boundaries.


Better read through some of these posts again then because that attitude is plastered all over this forum (and this post). It seems the more experienced people are the more judgemental they are. Of course not all and I dont mean to be so general about and I do not mean to offend anyone.
One of the biggest concerns we have is how people will react to our limits-boundries based what we have read here.

So where is that line that in your opinion says green flag and not red.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by 04kingpin

A lot of people here seem to think that it's all or nothing.

I wouldn't say a LOT of people here feel this way. Actually, I think most of the posters here respect boundaries - but if those boundaries are too constricting, they might not choose to play.

For example - we have played with couples who say "no kissing" but the experience didn't feel right to us. Kissing is part of the fun for us. So - if someone said "no kissing" (a rule we totally get because it was on our first - very long - list of rules) we would say "thanks but no thanks."

Nothing wrong with them - but the play wouldn't be fun for us - so what's the point?

Originally Posted by 04kingpin

We prefer same room together, no anal with the "other" guy, and no playing without our SO there.

These are our boundaries as well. I am not sure what constitutes "red flag", but my guess is people who can't move until they consult their rule book. "I can put my foot here, but not here" types.

I once had an experience where a woman sat indian style on the bed - totally naked - and went through an impressive list of rules - all of which related to things I would never do or things I would ask about during play. Needless to say - the lecture wasn't wood-worthy so I finally stopped her and asked, "are we going to fuck or what?"

She laughed and we did...

She realized that everything was going to be just fine - and I was going to ask before I did anything that I felt might not be invited. First times are always fun that way.

Spoomonkey

[04kingpin]

Choosing not play with couples because of their boundries is one thing. To say someone isnt ready or should not be swinging because of those boundries is another. We would most likely not play with a couple who would not do oral (because we like it so much) but that does not mean we think they should not be doing this and we would never tell them that. In other words we would respect their boundries and move on without labeling them.
There is a middle ground and high ground I guess. But all too often I have read in the forums that some people in this high ground look down or somehow think they are more enlightened than those of us with boundries.

One could say that couples with no limits have issues that could mean that maybe there is a problem in their relationship.
One could also say that those with too many boundries have problems in their relationship.

We have learned a great deal here and I want to thank those who take the time to give advice and share their experience although I may not agree with all of it.
BUT...I think that maybe some of of those same people forget what making the jump is like and how they felt when they were rookies. AND.... some of those same people tell people they have problems when there isn't any. They just have their limits. Simple as that.

I hope I don't offend anyone and I know it sounds as if I'm painting with a broad brush here. There are exceptions to everything and I don't mean to imply that all you veterans feel this way. I'm just trying to give a perspective from someone who has limits for our own reasons.

This kind of struck a nerve with me because one of the things holding us back or slowing us down is how we would be looked upon because of our limits. This worry of ours is based on what we have read here.

Just needed to vent.

[good times]

Originally Posted by good times

It has been our experience though, that if a couple has excessive amounts of rules and boundries they usually have issues like jealousy or insecurity in their relationship.

I think I should clarify that in my previous statement above, I was referring to people who have been swinging for a while. I was not referring to people just getting started.

I think that when people first start they have a lot of insecurity about how they will react to the new experience, I know we sure did. I think this is a prefectly natural fear of the unknown. After they get some experience then it seems to us that usually one of two things happens. The most common is that they redefine and simplify their rules and boundaries, as they get more comfortable with swinging. The other, fortanately pretty rare, is they find out that they don't handle certain situations well, and instead of taking a step back and considering that maybe swinging isn't their thing after all, they make more rules to try to avoid those situations that triggered their negative emotions. In the case of the later, sometimes that works out fine, but if their rules become excessive, it just doesn't tend to be conducive to a good time, in my opinion.

As I said before, most people have rules and boundaries that they have established over time. I don't think we really have any rules that we consider "red flags" as much as, like Spoomonkey said, rules that aren't compatible with our idea of a good time. Does that mean that if they have rules that don't mesh with ours that they are wrong, or that we would somehow look down on them for it? No, it just means we aren't compatible for play; those same rules are, no doubt, perfectly fine with someone else. I also don't think that just because a couple has rules that are different from ours that they are automatically having a hang-up of some sort or jealousy issues.

As far as new people go, we do understand as we were new once too. With new people, as long as they don't have rules that are a no go for us (no kissing for example), and both sides of the couple are on the same page (an example of not being on the same page would be where one half of the couple is really into it and the other one is going along just to make them happy), then we wouldn't have a problem playing with them. The only difference for us when playing with a newbie is that we tend to be a little more cautious and observant than we would with a more experienced couple. The reason for that is that it isn't uncommon for someone to get cold feet in the middle of the action the first time. Having seen this happen a couple of times, it is a simple matter for us to keep our senses tuned for it, and should it happen, to stop and let them regroup and work out their feelings. Then, if they so choose, we can play another day. By taking this approach, we have yet to have a newbie that didn't want to hook up for a second play session.