Having Boundaries = personal hangups or jealousy

[NandTfromCA]

Rules in this context are like security for your home- some people have locks on their doors, some have alarms, some have surveillance cameras, some have “panic rooms”, some have guard dogs, some people might even pay bodyguards to watch over them and their house. I’m sure there are many other security features that I haven’t even thought of.

Is the person with door locks being insecure/paranoid? How about if they have an alarm on their house…are they insecure now? How about if they have all of the above and maybe even a secure tunnel that leads from their home to the police station…are they insecure now?

People who barely lock their house will think the people with tunnels are insecure. People with tunnels with think people who don’t lock their house are stupid. The point is that the more your opinions differ, the more likely you will pass judgment about a persons motives…and, in my opinion, the more likely you will be somewhat correct in that judgment. (“likely” is the key word…it doesn’t mean “always”, just a statistical probability).

Although we have a “to each their own” philosophy, and although we might never say anything out loud, we might think the person who has too many of those safety features is a little insecure. Maybe the insecurity is well founded because they had problems (let's say break-ins) in the past. Even if it is, we might not want to go to that persons house because we could get sucked into those problems (again, just an analogy).

The same thing applies to swinging. Putting security features (rules) in place is a good thing. Having too many might cause us to question what problems they have had, or insecurities they have. A “red flag” doesn’t mean we are branding them as insecure or looking down on them. It just means that we will heighten our awareness and sensitivity to potential issues….issues that we don’t want part of our swinging experience. We may even decide not to play with them, just as they might decide not to play with us because we don't have enough rules.

T

[04kingpin]

Ahh..Desaray my comments were direcred at JTcamp05 not you. We have the same concerns.

[JTcamp05]

I'm not trying to bash those who have "rules" I just think that if you as a couple "need" rules to prevent one or the other from doing something that makes the other uncomfortable...that IS different from having rules. My statement was about needing them verses having them.

Now really if you haven't communicated your thoughts feelings and desires with your spouse enough prior to swinging.......you are not going into it fully aware of what may or may not happen. Likewise if you have that kind of communication where is the NEED, do you not trust your spouse to respect your feelings?

That of course is what is preached over and over on the board. Talk, Talk Talk.....and its good advise, Its one of the reasons we were so well adjusted to the lifestyle. I think is would be good for everyone thinking of entertaining the idea of swinging to communicate like this. We spent years talking before our first encounter and when it happened there were no suprises or hang up, we had processed it over and over so many times in our minds that the only suprise is how much fun we really had.

I'll say it again there is nothing wrong with rules or boundaries...everyone has them. That of course is what keeps us civalized. I think that if couples have excessive boundries that they wouldnt be complatiable with a more open minded couple. Is that stupid?

[JTcamp05]

ohhh and by the way I really didn't think your rules are excessive DEZ......


If you want to get into specifics....we don't swing with out condoms, my wife is NOT into anal, we sure wouldn't trust a stranger in our home, and we prefer couples with a similar background (family, kids, stable home life ect, ect...).

But of course those are issues we have discused and know with out a doubt in our hearts lines that we BOTH do not want to cross. Do we need those rules no becuse we recpect them reguardless of the situation.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by JTcamp05

I'm not trying to bash those who have "rules" I just think that if you as a couple "need" rules to prevent one or the other from doing something that makes the other uncomfortable...

Thanks for clarifying. This makes perfect sense.

When we started, we had a ton of rules. We still have "rules" but mostly those are just an acknowledgement of what we know about each other - and they are completely unnecessary. What we rely on now is respect - and I am not going to do something that would hurt Mrs Spoomonkey - and visa versa.

Spoomonkey

[WildMiCouple]

We've never had "rules" per se. Could be because we'd been together for over 20 years before we started playing. But we certainly have preferences, which have evolved as we've gained more experience.

As far as playing with others that have them.....hmmmm. Kinda funny as we've never discussed rules with others before playing. There's only one couple that we've played with that we knew had any (besides the usual safe sex one). And I found out after the fact. It was on the second trip to their house that Tammy mentioned that Sue told her that they didn't do oral with others. They saved that for themselves. I started to laugh as I had planned on tasting her that night. It had dawned on me shortly after the first time the previous month, that I hadn't enjoyed tasting her nor her me. I just thought that things had progressed a little differently than normal and she just cowgirled up quickly because she was just horny As I said, I hadn't really noticed til I had a chance to think about it.

Would we have played with that couple knowing that they didn't do oral? Probably.....but it may have taken some of the enjoyment out of it knowing it in advance.

Brett

[dezaray]

Originally Posted by NandTfromCA

Hey Dez- Kingpin was actually responding to a post:
With:He/she just didn't use the right "tags" with the quote.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, my bad

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by dezaray

Sorry for the misunderstanding, my bad

Nah - I stared at it for about an hour trying to figure it out... Granted, I'm a monkey, but it was pretty misleading

Spoomonkey

PS - I really dig your avatar! I stared at that for an hour, too

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by NandTfromCA

Rules in this context are like security for your home- some people have locks on their doors, some have alarms, some have surveillance cameras, some have “panic rooms”, some have guard dogs, some people might even pay bodyguards to watch over them and their house. I’m sure there are many other security features that I haven’t even thought of.

Is the person with door locks being insecure/paranoid? How about if they have an alarm on their house…are they insecure now? How about if they have all of the above and maybe even a secure tunnel that leads from their home to the police station…are they insecure now?

People who barely lock their house will think the people with tunnels are insecure. People with tunnels with think people who don’t lock their house are stupid. The point is that the more your opinions differ, the more likely you will pass judgment about a persons motives…and, in my opinion, the more likely you will be somewhat correct in that judgment. (“likely” is the key word…it doesn’t mean “always”, just a statistical probability).

Although we have a “to each their own” philosophy, and although we might never say anything out loud, we might think the person who has too many of those safety features is a little insecure. Maybe the insecurity is well founded because they had problems (let's say break-ins) in the past. Even if it is, we might not want to go to that persons house because we could get sucked into those problems (again, just an analogy).

The same thing applies to swinging. Putting security features (rules) in place is a good thing. Having too many might cause us to question what problems they have had, or insecurities they have. A “red flag” doesn’t mean we are branding them as insecure or looking down on them. It just means that we will heighten our awareness and sensitivity to potential issues….issues that we don’t want part of our swinging experience. We may even decide not to play with them, just as they might decide not to play with us because we don't have enough rules.

T

What a great analogy! (Devoid of ad hominem.) Thank you for this (open minded) perspective.

[JTcamp05]

[quote=WildMiCouple]We've never had "rules" per se. Could be because we'd been together for over 20 years before we started playing. But we certainly have preferences, which have evolved as we've gained more experience.


I like that....preferences is a much better term than "rules"...... guess I should have explained myself better....

[dezaray]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

PS - I really dig your avatar! I stared at that for an hour, too

thank you, that's my ass and my sweeties big strong hand, with a lil photoshop coloring

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by dezaray

thank you, that's my ass and my sweeties big strong hand, with a lil photoshop coloring

Looks like one of you has a good hand with Photoshop, too!

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by JTcamp05

I'm not trying to bash those who have "rules" I just think that if you as a couple "need" rules to prevent one or the other from doing something that makes the other uncomfortable...that IS different from having rules. My statement was about needing them verses having them.

Now really if you haven't communicated your thoughts feelings and desires with your spouse enough prior to swinging.......you are not going into it fully aware of what may or may not happen. Likewise if you have that kind of communication where is the NEED, do you not trust your spouse to respect your feelings?

Thanks for clarifying that, because I to was taken aback by your first comment.

I think you have to really be open-minded about some rules. There are rules that are "needed", the reasons for such might not be apparent to the outsider. For instance, Mrs. WS really enjoys anal. I was the first man she'd ever done it with outside a forced situation. It wasn't until the last eight months she'd have it with a swing partner. Some might see this as insecurity on my part because she didn't want it with anyone but me. Exactly opposite. It was her gig. She was raped as a teenager and had real issues about anything up there for quite some time. She trusted me after many years together but strangers??? Nope. She has since overcome that, but to some that may have seemed like it was my issue.

There are some who's rules may seem excessive, and yes, they may be because of some insecurities, but with the exception of very few of us, I think we all entered the lifestyle not knowing exactly what to expect and thus waded in as opposed to diving in. I look back at our list of rules when we started and chuckle to myself. At the time they seemed "needed" though. We just try to remember that when we hear of rules from newbie couples.

We also will pass on some couples with too many rules, though. Although we have nothing against newbies, we definitely don't want to be the source of any aggrivation in their relationship. And if there are too many rules the chance of crossing the line on one of them is too great.

Mr. WS

[cuzzeyesaidso]

Our rules and boundaries are for the most part lessons learned rather than things we decided before hand. We have the common "safe sex only, no male/male sex, & no anal" rules, and even then we've bent one of those rules due to a little accident and the fact that we like fucking them so much.

We generally have the mindset that you can't know what you don't like unles you try it. Our experiments have taught us that a lot of things we thought we wouldn't really care forat first, we enjoy a lot. Like orgies for example.