A Bisexual Acceptance Dilemna: MM vs FF

[JandY]

Anyone who has read our previous posts will know that I and my wife are one half of a MFFM relationship that meets up socially (and more) on ocassion.

We (guys) have been suffering something of a dilemna in that whilst the girls are very open-minded and adventurous - participating in pretty much every activity imaginable - double penetrations (pussy/oral. anal/oral, anal/pussy and double-pussy) double BJ's, oral administration to coital action and lesbianism etc., they have both stated that any MM bisexual play is not acceptable.

Us guys being basically pretty hetero had no problem with this, except that in talking we both admitted that we wouldn't be adverse to trying out oral sex with each other under the right circumstances.

I think that for both of us, once we'd both owned up to the idea, it has played on our minds and I know that I have found the sight of his cock in action as much a turn-on as the bodies of our ladies, on occasion. We're pretty open with each other and he's told me he has found himself feeling the same.

Neither of us are attracted to guys, just each other's cocks. To all intents and purposes, apart from this fixation, we're both very much hetero.

To cut a long story short, we met up recently. I was doing some work on the car in my garage and he came to help. His lady came also and the girls decided to go on a lunch/shopping trip in town.

After we'd finished the work on the car, I went for a shower and as I left the bathroom he called upstairs and asked of it would be OK for him to take a shower also.

Of course, I said yes and told him to grab a towel from the airing cupboard next to the bathroom and that it was OK for him to dress in the bedroom afterwards.

Our bedroom is next to the bathroom and while I dried myself, I could hear him showering.

I had had plenty of time to dress while he was in the bathroom, but I sort of knew something might happen, so when he left the shower and came into the bedroom to dress, I still had nothing on but the towel around my waist.

He also had his towel around his lower loins but his shoulders, chest and torso were still covered with water droplets and when he asked if I had another towel to dry them, I simply unhooked my own towel and held it out for him - revealing, in the process my skyward pointing sex.

As he reached for it, he grasped my forearm, dropped his own towel to reveal his erection and manouvered my hand so that I could grasp his stiff member as he pulled me towards him.

We actually kissed (which was the last thing I'd have ever imagined - but it was SO horny to kiss a guy).

He pushed me back onto the bed and cupped my balls in his hand prior to snaking his tongue from my mouth, down my neck, along my chest and across my stomach until he engulfed me in his hot mouth. I couldn't wait any longer and needed to do the same, so we were soon locked in an unbelievable MM 69.

I was amazed at the sensation of his penis head in my mouth. The texture really is like rubber. If it weren't for the jerking and the taste/odour it might easily be a sex-toy, by feel alone.

His smell was amazing (and being ordinarily heterosexual, I found a little off-putting at first), his genitals smelled like a man. I'd only ever been used to genitals smelling female, before.

I know that it's been proven that the average amount of sperm ejaculated is only about a teaspoonful, but when he came in my mouth, it seemed much more. There seemed to be wave after wave of it and I almost gagged - not at the taste (which was actually quite good) but at the fear of drowning.

He told me not to cum in his mouth as he hates sperm and wishes it didn't even exist.

This was OK with me, cuz "each to his own" is my motto.

When it was my turn to cum, I asked if it was OK to empty myself over his cock and balls and he found that a turn on and I found licking it all off afterwards an equal turn-on (I hate waste).

Trouble is now, we can't tell the girls and we don't like secrets but we both know it will happen again.

We intend keeping this aspect of our swinging a secret.

We have no emotional feelings towards each other, other than friendship and being fuckbuddies. The same as we feel when having sex with each other's wives, in fact.

We love our own wives. The rest is purely sex and the pleasure of seeing our wives happily being fucked to heaven and back.

Is that bad?

[bicuriocpl]

Well to me this is cheating pure and simple. You are unwilling to tell you wife about it so you are going to continue secretly meeting to have sex. Only difference between what you are doing and cheating with the woman of the couple is the fact of gender. How is this being open? Swinging is built on trust and communication, not on secrecy between spouses. You need to either tell you wife and explain that this is something you wish to continiue doing or stop completely and explain it was a one time thing. Above all else no secrets with your wife or it could damage your relationship when she finds out ( and she probably eventually will). What happens if the other guy in the couple tells his wife and she tells yours while drunk or in a fit of rage? better you both tell your spouses and either quit seeing each other or at least come to some sort of agreement. Of course this is my opinion and you are free to ignore it. In which case all I ask is that you recycle the electrons appropriately.

[Lixxnsuxx]

Are we to understand that the girls would not allow M2M but had a pretty good time with G2G? Is this not a double standard? Maybe you should talk to your male friend and the both of you mention this double standard to your mates. I think it might be that the next time you are with your friends and the girls lock up you sidle over and start sucking his cock. If the girls object they might ought to try to explain the difference. Believe me, it will sound absurd.

[Additude]

Hey JandY,

You know this really is cheating....in the technical sense of it.

The only reason your personally not considering it to be cheating is because your mind is masking it with another emotion....that emotion might be embarrasment or fear, maybe both, maybe even something else, but I bet your concerned of what your wives will think of it. That's why your not telling.

But the deed is done and now it's time to cast aside the masking emotions and come clean....tell the truth, be honest and don't keep the secret. Heck, it's not like you guys have to tell your vanilla wives your cheating on them with other women. Your current situation diminishes the impact considerably over a hetro couple.

You all need to sit down as a 4 some and you need to get it out in the open.

The sooner, the better.

[JandY]

Problem with our foursome is that bothe ladies have made it clear, from the outset, that they find the idea of their men engaging in homosexual activities as "icky" at least and would mean loss of respect and maybe even make us less attractive to them as "men".

They see FF sex as almost natural (and who can blame them - LOL) and as an added spice for both themselves and for us guys to observe, but they see MM sex as, somehow, unnatural and even maybe threatening to their relationships.

My lady has told me point-blank thet she has known so many men who used to be hetero but after coming "out of the closet" never got back in it again and remained solely or predominantly gay. I have to say, that I've known quite a few, also. There are even quite a number of famous guys that went through this transformation &/or supressed their gay feelings for years.

Quite often, when guys go with guys, they end up forsaking girls.

But rarely does it seem to happen, the other way around. Girls are either gay or bi almost (not always, but almost) from the off.

Girls often enjoy bi sex but maintain their basic heterosexuality.

A lot of guys don't. I believe that I and my buddy are both rampant heteros who just happen to enjoy sucking each other's cocks and balls.

But neither of us is looking for another guy, whereas we'd happily take on any number of other ladies, so I guess our own female partners are worried we might "turn" away from them forever as well as being put off us guys playing for the earlier reasons described.

[The Fuse]

Well it is too bad that you two have been denied the opportunity to satisfy your desires and curiosity because your wives are not open to it. They might feel it is a turn-off, but ultimately it shouldn't be hurting anyone, so maybe they could have found a way to be supportive, or at least accommodating.

Now, you have a situation where you've done something you are keeping a secret. You know as well as anyone that this is wrong, and the conflicted feelings, desires and the stress of keeping the secret will be difficult to deal with within the normal social relationship that the four of you have. If your wives are perceptive, they will be able to tell that something has happened. You may or may not choose to tell them, but it seems likely that they will find out one way or another. I am sorry that you are in this situation, but I am sympathetic. It seems like it would have been difficult to avoid the temptation, and when you feel you have the right on your side, it is difficult to resist that temptation.

Good luck and I hope you will let us know what happens. Meanwhile, thanks for sharing your story... it sounded pretty hot to me.

[Lixxnsuxx]

Dear J, What are you saying? This picture is somewhat clouded by the way you rationalized the girls' thoughts. Could it be this deception runs further..?

[GerdOEvert]

Both of us are bi sexual. My wife since college, me since my early teens. But we prefer the opposite sex, with an occassional erotic interlude. May be you could call us
experimental.

In our lifestyle experience4s over a number of years, we saw that the bi females were much more common, and in fact encouaged.

The bi males got together in threesomes in closed rooms,
or met elsewhere,.

Male homosexual contact is was just not approved of and was taboo. I thnk it has and always will be so.


Men think femaile bisexuality is hot hot hot. I know I do.

For me, I love to eat my wife or another lover after she is creme filled. I do wonder where I got that fetish. Mr. Spoo you could fill her up. And I would love to watch Eileen and Ms. Spoo. I'd love to eat Ms. Spoo when she is creme filled, with yours or other creme. Would love to suck you sometime, but we are way to far away. And I am sure you would be against it. I also think Snozberry Blu is hot, and some others. Small group, goodd sex, lots of fun. No boundaries. I wonder if Mr Spoo would ever to tete beche?

I also have never orally taken a load of creamy cum, but would like to.

The fear ot AIDS has really stopped all that four us. The only way we would swing now is with a smallg roup where all have been tested, and we introduce new couples slowly, etc.

Also, fucking with a condom is really like taking a shower in a raincoat.

Gerd and Eileen

[JandY]

Originally Posted by Lixxnsuxx

Dear J, What are you saying? This picture is somewhat clouded by the way you rationalized the girls' thoughts. Could it be this deception runs further..?

Simply stating what the girls have said re their opinions on MM play, but you also gotta take into account that we guys do believe that we know our ladies and have discussed the situation between us.

When you've been with someone for a long time (8 years, in my case), the simple furrowing or raising of an eyebrow, when any given subject is raised, can speak volumes and reveal innermost thoughts - so I think the female thought rationalising is probably quite on the mark.

[Lixxnsuxx]

IMHO- Ok, live in the double standard if that is acceptable to you. Why did you write in? The only thing you have done so far is rationalize the girls' position and get spanked by knowledgeable people who tell you cheating is cheating-no matter with a man or woman. Frankly, if I were you I would dump the girlfriend- unless you like the inconsistencies in your relationship.

[lardub]

To answer the question of cheating yes I believe it is. Now in regards to your delema have you a history of rejecting gay males. Lets be a little more descriptive with my question here.
As with any close relationship a number of topics concerning sex come up, the last ten years have brought gay marriage to the for front in the media with numerous churches spliting over the dispute. Certainly you have discussed this with her. Communication is paramount in this lifestyle.
Do you recall ever stating that you don't see the attraction and can't understand how males could find this attractive. Have you even stood behind them and said it doesn't hurt me but its not my cup of tea. In short have you projected to her that it was the furthest thing from your mind, and you could never do it, that to you it was un-natural, could this be perhaps a basis of the girls stance on the matter.
Before we even had given swaping the time of day we belonged to a church that underwent the same sex controversy, both of us were on the hetro side of the fence and saw it as a threat to our values and our children. we I thought were being honest with each other, in fact we were being dishonest to each other. Both of us in our past had same sex encounters and kept it secret from each other. We are proof that it isn't some evil that takes over as we met, fell in love married and had children. Now that we communicate and have opened up to each other we have both come clean and it hasn't made us love each other less. she doesn't look at me different. It has opened up a whole new set of experinces we can enjoy if it ever comes up because we have been honest.
You guys have to sit the Ladies down and discuss this and throw it all out on the table, its a double standard pure and simple and you have to let them know that it is something you wish to explore with them, not excluding them. Let them know that this is a journey you want to take with them as couples.
Hopefully this works out for you.

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by JandY

Simply stating what the girls have said re their opinions on MM play, but you also gotta take into account that we guys do believe that we know our ladies and have discussed the situation between us.

When you've been with someone for a long time (8 years, in my case), the simple furrowing or raising of an eyebrow, when any given subject is raised, can speak volumes and reveal innermost thoughts - so I think the female thought rationalising is probably quite on the mark.

I'm sure you do know your wife very well, though I can honestly tell you that despite having been with Mr. Sweet for 16 years, he STILL gets stuff wrong. But the difference with us is, he knows that he can talk to me about anything. Even if a particular topic or request makes me uncomfortable, I'd rather he just tell me than hide it. It becomes a lie of omission at that point, and the lie (to me) would be worse than whatever he did that he was hiding from me.

To answer your original question:

Trouble is now, we can't tell the girls and we don't like secrets but we both know it will happen again.

We intend keeping this aspect of our swinging a secret.

We have no emotional feelings towards each other, other than friendship and being fuckbuddies. The same as we feel when having sex with each other's wives, in fact.

We love our own wives. The rest is purely sex and the pleasure of seeing our wives happily being fucked to heaven and back.

Is that bad?

YES. By doing something against the wives' knowledge and consent is cheating--no two ways about it. I'm sorry that you and your friend are the victims of a double standard. I can maybe even understand that this episode was simply a matter of feeling "free" (without the disapproval you feared you'd get from the wives) to explore something you both have had an interest in. But to do so without their knowledge is (IMO, which you asked for by posting) wrong. Further, to keep this from them, knowing it will happen again? That only compounds the error.

Now, in addition to the wives being (however unreasonably) concerned that your MM play would cause you to lose interest in heterosexual activities, they now also have to worry about trusting whether you'll be faithful to them at all.

They WILL find out eventually--do you really think you'll be able to keep from touching each other during play sessions?!? WHEN, not if, they find out, they are going to be very hurt and angry, and rightfully so. Then you're gonna' have a much bigger can of worms to deal with than if you just 'fess up now.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by JandY

Trouble is now, we can't tell the girls and we don't like secrets but we both know it will happen again.

We intend keeping this aspect of our swinging a secret.

Is that bad?

I find your predicament interesting and multidimensional. Here you are, two couples who play exclusively and have been for a good while. You are all okay with this arrangement and enjoy it. You guys have found that you are open to MM sex but your wives have stated they are not open to MM sex, yet they enjoy FF sex. Problem now is that you've already broken a rule. (I don't like calling it cheating at this point because I don't think it fits.) However, if you continue to have MM sex with each other without your wives knowledge and permission, you will then be cheaters, IMO.

You say you "know it will happen again."

I don't think you guys will be able to live with your secret. It will eat you up and erode your relationship with your wives and your friendship.

Originally Posted by lardub

Do you recall ever stating that you don't see the attraction and can't understand how males could find this attractive. Have you even stood behind them and said it doesn't hurt me but its not my cup of tea. In short have you projected to her that it was the furthest thing from your mind, and you could never do it, that to you it was un-natural, could this be perhaps a basis of the girls stance on the matter.

Lardub has brought up something to consider. Your wife may be saying what she thinks she should say. Her views may also be a "habit of thinking" that she would change, if given the opportunity. I used to think swingers were disgusting human beings, now I'm a swinger! I had a moment of input from someone with a different perspective and although it strained & troubled my mind for a day or two, it got me thinking, and I decided to learn more, and discuss swinging with my husband.

I think you need to take the risk of opening up to your wife and discussing what you have discovered about yourself and admit to what you have done.

I feel for you, your predicament isn't fair in many ways. But conintuing to play without permission is not the answer.

LM

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

Lardub has brought up something to consider. Your wife may be saying what she thinks she should say. Her views may also be a "habit of thinking" that she would change, if given the opportunity. I used to think swingers were disgusting human beings, now I'm a swinger! I had a moment of input from someone with a different perspective and although it strained & troubled my mind for a day or two, it got me thinking, and I decided to learn more, and discuss swinging with my husband.

I think you need to take the risk of opening up to your wife and discussing what you have discovered about yourself and admit to what you have done.

I feel for you, your predicament isn't fair in many ways. But conintuing to play without permission is not the answer.

LM

This was my thought as I read this initially as well. As couples we do know each other well and after many times of hearing you say you'd never do that or that you think low of MM activity. It may be that the females have taken to that and expressed a severe disinterest FOR you, because they felt it was something you would never do. By stating it up front they were giving you the freedom to not have to state it.

The problem is that it left you wanting something and unable to turn things around after saying for years that you didn't want something.

For the sake of your marriages and your relationships you have to tell your wives about your interest in MM activity and your desire to give it a try. That said, I do believe that sometimes the only reason we come clean of indiscretions is to clear our own minds, and doing so may hurt things more. But, if you come clean of the desire and then get the ok to do it again... eventually it's going to come out anyway, so you may as well lay it all on the table. Start with the beginning of how you both thought about it, discussed it, etc and that you were scared to tell them. Then tell them what happened. They will be hurt more by your lying to them and leaving them out than by your desire to be with another man. Understand that from the outside. They will be upset, and they have reason to be upset. Give them that allowance and understand that you lied and you were wrong in doing so

[JandY]

I'm taking all the comments and opinions on-board and both of us guys know it's sort of wrong, but I also sort of view it in a similar light to how I might view jerking off without including or even telling my wife.

I bet she does, too.

Probably most of us do.

It's not really adultery in the traditional sense. There's no emotions involved. It's less of a betrayal, from my perspective, than if I were to pay a hooker for sex.

Just to throw something else in the pot, would people's opinions be any different if I and my buddy were female and playing together without our men?

Would be interested to learn if that would shape opinions any differently.