Do our feelings about bi men put us at risk?

[Ed & Bunny]

How to word that PROFILE/AD to weed out BI men?

As I posted to the above thread I began to wonder if our attitudes put us at risk. Does shunning bi men force them into riskier behaviours and increased disease risk that they may bring into the rest of the swinger population? For those that didnt read my post I stated the opinion that most Bi or bi-curious men that are part of a couple will be relatively safe as they will most likely only play within our community but singles may step out into the openly gay world to scratch their itch even though they would prefer to explore the bi thing within a MMF situation.

Just some food for thought. And a scary thought at that. But not so much for us, as if I can ever get Bunny to agree to a MFM we always use condoms when playing. But when we look at strait male profiles I will wonder.

[realcplub2]

Very interesting insight, The swinging community as a whole has shunned M2M activity And the Bi male since the 80's , when GRID was the worry..You know GRID as what it is currently called AIDS. Gay men, played with Bi men in Bath houses and gay bars gloryholes and they took the presents home to thier wives. Suddenly it went from a Gay disease to a world wide disease of epidemic proportions

Back then when the whole lifestyle nearly dried up and blew away because of fear. PLATO'S closed, along with most of the famous clubs of the 70's. People were scared shitless because like the old shampoo commercial and the AIDS commercials were spouting it was just who you slept with but everybody they ever slept with and everybody they slept with.. And so on.. One night of fun could mean you were in bed with ten thousand people if you took it litteraly..

But of course, this all was the start of the stigma, and it continues today, personal preferences aside. We all interview potential partners for everything under the sun, or at least we should.. the days of the zipless fuck are long gone.

We because of the stigma and lets be honest, being treated like lepers, Most keep thier other activites a secret. Only when its a possibilty do most acknowledge thier "dark side"

Hypocrisy - We can post adverts and profiles stating both are straight, and willingly accept emails and start conversations with couples where the woman is BI but shun the ones where the guy is. Yet, these are the very people who despite our own personal preferences, should be put on our shoulders for litterly, and cheered for, for being themselves and being honest with everyone else.

So do we contribute to BAD BEHAVIOR? that is the question isnt it..

In many ways we do.

[Chicup]

Interesting concept.

I'd say its possible for a minority of the minority. As most bi/bi curious men in the lifestyle claim its just a sex thing, and they can take it or leave it, I'd doubt they would be willing to go to the casual gay sex world, unprotected, just to see what its like.

On the other hand a man willing to do that I would think would be willing to do it regardless of the lifestyle, and would still be a risky partner.

This is all just a guess of course.

[qreskupl7476]

If I'm not mistaken, or at least in my personal experience, bi men in the lifestyle are no different than any other men in the lifestyle, other than the fact that they have no aversion to playing with other men. In other words, as a general rule, they have no desire to put anyone else at risk, they're extremely conscious of their sexual health, and most likely aren't too prone to taking unnecessary risks. Granted I have a pretty limited knowledge, just what I've read here and gleaned from the one couple we know with a bi male, but it seems to me to be a bit of a consensus. The gentleman we know is just that, a gentleman, and his bisexuality would in no way give us pause as far as playing with this couple is concerned. Everyone we know insists on condom use whether they're bi or not, and this couple is no different. When we first met them, they were up front with us about his bisexuality, we were up front with him with regards to the fact that I'm not bi in the least, and everyone involved was totally cool with that. Basically, what I'm saying, is I can't see any reason to "weed out" bi men. If you're not into it you're not into it, but it's no different than a woman that isn't into anal or a guy that isn't into larger women or a couple that doesn't full swap. Just tell people honestly and politely what you do and what you don't, and let the chips fall where they may. If it clicks it clicks.

Just our $.02

[If_You_Please]

qreskupl7476, if it wouldn't be just obnoxious, I'd quote your whole post for truth. From the standpoint of a bisexual male, I have hooked up with gay guys to satisfy our mutual desires, but my primary rules of Safety and Cleanliness and the standards I apply to enforce those rules are just the same as any other sexual encounter I partake in. If I'm with a couple who's uncomfortable with MM contact, I enjoy the woman just as much and respect their personal preferences regarding everything else. Win-win in both cases.

I think, like in all sorts of situations, a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. I recommend looking for the firm, bright red ones.

The stigma sucks for folks like myself, but I get by (no pun intended).

[corynlaine]

qreskupl7476, hats off! You're right on.

I am totally fascinated with the ongoing hypocrisy and ignorance that is displayed by a lot of posters when it comes to this subject.

I find the cognitive dissonance both funny and frightening.

RE the OPs- worries about "gay" disease. Africa, where AIDS originated is still the fastest growing and largest population of people with HIV/AIDS where virtually all are spread through heterosexual sex Timeline of AIDS in Africa (large thanks goes to the catholic church) Even in the US the homosexual population is only part of the HIV/AIDS community and they were among if not the 1st group to recognize the disease and try to do something about it. It is largely do to the attitudes of people -like the op displays - that the disease was allowed to go on for so long unchecked.

Secondly - post 3 from Chicup is yet another GEM from his ongoing display of homophobia and hypocrisy. Cause you see men who are interested in bi mm play will do ANYTHING to get that, BUT his wife who (per his post) is bi/bi curious will NEVER run off to the first bull-dike bar in town to do ANYTHING to get her bi curiosity satisfied

One common theme on this board when it comes to STDs is how the percentages in the lifestyle are much lower then the vanilla world because people in the LS face the risk, evaluate it and deal with it. But according to the OP and Chicup this common sense real world approach simply doesn't apply to bi/bi-curious men cause you see THEY'RE
SICKO DEVIANTS. (much like how all swingers are thought of by the vanilla world)

OH the IRONY!

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by corynlaine

qreskupl7476, hats off! You're right on.

I am totally fascinated with the ongoing hypocrisy and ignorance that is displayed by a lot of posters when it comes to this subject.

I find the cognitive dissonance both funny and frightening.

RE the OPs- worries about "gay" disease. Africa, where AIDS originated is still the fastest growing and largest population of people with HIV/AIDS where virtually all are spread through heterosexual sex Timeline of AIDS in Africa (large thanks goes to the catholic church) Even in the US the homosexual population is only part of the HIV/AIDS community and they were among if not the 1st group to recognize the disease and try to do something about it. It is largely do to the attitudes of people -like the op displays - that the disease was allowed to go on for so long unchecked.

As I posted in the last thread, which you read, MM contact is still leads the way in new HIV cases in the US. This is now, not in the 80's.

Secondly - post 3 from Chicup is yet another GEM from his ongoing display of homophobia and hypocrisy. Cause you see men who are interested in bi mm play will do ANYTHING to get that, BUT his wife who (per his post) is bi/bi curious will NEVER run off to the first bull-dike bar in town to do ANYTHING to get her bi curiosity satisfied

Your reading comprehension fails. If most bi men in the lifestyle are not THAT interested in gay sex like is so often claimed, then they shouldn't be exposed nearly as much to the high risk group of men.

One common theme on this board when it comes to STDs is how the percentages in the lifestyle are much lower then the vanilla world because people in the LS face the risk, evaluate it and deal with it. But according to the OP and Chicup this common sense real world approach simply doesn't apply to bi/bi-curious men cause you see THEY'RE
SICKO DEVIANTS. (much like how all swingers are thought of by the vanilla world)

You might want to stop speaking for me, you are very bad at it.

[realcplub2]

Look, we need to stop bashing each other.

Personal choices are part of everyday life as well as part of this lifestyle. While yes there are militant opinions on each side of ANY CHOICE, this baord provides information to people who are just starting out as well as those who have been in the lifestyle for years.

We have threads running about Bi males and all sorts of topics, Pro and Con.. Lets at least agree that, they exist, and are part of thelifestyle.

But, the problem is, as has been articulated every across the forum, that the belief that they are all running rampant in regards to thier desire to play with, in whatever form or fashion, straight males. That they pose as straight males, and then once the clothes come off, they go straight for the other male is ludicris at best.

Gay men only want sex with other men, Gay women want sex only with other women. The concept that a Bi, of either sex MUST have sex with a partner of the same sex to have the encounter be enjoyable again verges on the ludicris.

As If you please said, a few out there, have placed many misconceptions, in people. Do some lie about thier preference, YES.. Does this mean that again, as soon as the clothes come off they are reaching for the hard cock, rather than the wet pussy.. Again, for the most part, No.. bondries and rules are supposed to be clear..

Ratcheting down the arguements on either side, However, will provide useful advise to people that are looking for some.

After all, isnt that why most of us come back to post answers to questions in these threads?

[Lixxnsuxx]

Feel free to "weed out" whoever you like, but remember having sex with virtual strangers isn't without peril. Personally, as a bi male, I resent the hell out of a so called "straight" male sucking my cock and having to have his wife there to make his gay feelings "ligit". Why do we get so many contacts from couples with "straight" males? There is way too hypocrisy and bigotry of some people is pretty amazing..

[gsu22]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Interesting concept.

I'd say its possible for a minority of the minority. As most bi/bi curious men in the lifestyle claim its just a sex thing, and they can take it or leave it, I'd doubt they would be willing to go to the casual gay sex world, unprotected, just to see what its like.

On the other hand a man willing to do that I would think would be willing to do it regardless of the lifestyle, and would still be a risky partner.

This is all just a guess of course.

Totally agree...I'd never go into the casual gay sex world even if I REALLLLY wanted to do some MM stuff one day. That's actually been the problem for me....I'm bi and I want to find a married bud perhaps that is too where his wife wouldn't mind him playing with a safe bi-male like myself even if she's not around....and i'm finding that nearly impossible to find.

It is a lot about sex when it comes to my MM feelings but I've never put myself at a bad risk....my MM experience is actually pretty limited because i'm very conservative when it comes to finding another male....my mind controls over my horny"ness" which is hard

[Lascivious L&L]

MM contact leads the way in new HIV cases in the US because of two particular actions, not because males are involved. Number one is anal sex. Anal sex is the most effective way to transmit HIV other than direct blood injection as with sharing needles. That effectiveness has nothing to do with the male sex other than MM sexual contact has a much higher percentage of anal sex.

Number two is the number of sexual partners. This is not unique to MM sexual contact, but is common to MM sexual contact. The higher the number of sexual partners the greater the risk of contact with HIV. This is true of MF sexual contact. Those purely heterosexual couples in the lifestyle who have high numbers of sexual partners share this particular risk as do MMs with similarly high numbers of sexual partners.

The point, often ignored, is that risk is about sexual actions not broadly defined groups. Because bisexual men have MM contacts they are grouped within this overly broad group even though bisexuals in the lifestyle often have very different levels of risky actions than gays do. Gays who are primarily oral also have different risk factors from gays who are primarily anal.

The MM risk grouping is not about accuracy but rather about convenience. It includes sub groups with very different levels of risky actions. This unfortunate convenience has been seized by those in the lifestyle with male bisexual bias to portray bisexuals in the lifestyle as having similar risk levels as gays who engage primarily in anal sex because they are lumped together in the MM risk group.

More accurate is to assign risk levels to actions rather than groups. Riskiest are those who engage in anal sex primarily and who have many partners. As well as those who share needles. The less anal sex and the less number of partners the less the risk. Condoms reduce the risk for all groups and all actions save for sharing needles. If we concentrate on the actions we can be much more accurate about the risks.