How can you claim to not be even a tad bi-curious?

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by funcpl4life

I can't ask Chicup to change. If I want him to accept me the way I am, then I have to accept him the way he is. Is that too much to ask?

I am what I am and thats all that I am *toot toot*.

Originally Posted by corynlaine

You know what worries me about this statement is not so much the truth of it, but the HYPOCRICY of it!

People on this board are all hard up about HONESTY and COMMUNICATION and LOVING COUPLES.
They universally deride (rightfully so) the married men who come here with the BS stories about how their wives just lost interest in sex meme.

BUT this is a GIANT elephant in the room that just screams dishonesty!

And you know what they say about little lie big lie!?

The question is who is being dishonest, and that would be the bi guys. I'm honestly not bi, and I honestly don't find it attractive or a turn on, in fact its a turn off.

Its up to the bi guys to say we're here, we're not queer, but we like cock.

Now I suppose its negative of me to think there is no such thing as 'straight' and 'likes cock' in the same sentence but thats just semantics, and it seems to be the semantics everyone is afraid of.

Personally since this isn't a dating site, no law says you need your Swing Lifestyle profile linked, there is no reason NOT to admit your preferences here, they can't come back to bite you unless you allow it.

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by corynlaine

I have to say that I can kind of see both sides of the story. There are some activities which absolutely do NOTHING for either of us and we can't imagine a scenario where we would participate in said activity.

On the other hand - I find is simply INCREDIBLE that on a board like this,
somewhere around 90% of women list as bi-curious to fully bi
and at the same time 98% + of men list as straight.

As, to the issue of - I've thought about it and I am not limited by social mores - I would only say that the MIND is the largest sexual organ, but it's also the most complicated one that is far better at rationalising things than most think. I wonder - is it really not being affected by the all the crap that society puts on men!?

There are some activities which we don't understand either. But, to each their own. I'm not sure why you're so surprised that only 2%~ are bi on this board. I don't believe this site represents the swinging world as a whole. In my neck of the woods, the bisexual men are about 50%. Good for them. Social Mores be damned. We are already going against social mores by swinging. That is one activity that is NOT a social norm in my area.

Originally Posted by Trace Ekies

I feel certain that there are alot of men who want to try the other side but are afraid too as a result of stigma.

I also think there is merit in this statement. It's not only that I agree with it, but the stigma is if a male tries something, will they think he's gay? Being homosexual carries quite the label in some societies. Basically what Mr. CXXC said in his next post.

Originally Posted by CXXC

I have seen couples change their profiles where the man is listed from straight to bi. The well nearly dried up for them instantly. I attribute this to fear. Other men fear that they will be approached, or worse, made to do things they are uncomfortable with. (Women can get guys to do just about anything!) In the heat of the moment, they may well engage in male bisexual activities, enjoy it and then have to face the issue entirely. Are they really bi? Imagine the conflict in his mind!

Interestingly, like I said, the male bi population in our area is about 40-50% according to their AFF profiles. Not a biggie. It's pretty acceptable more in this lifestyle than out of it in this area. There is not a lack of play people for these men. The well hasn't dried up for them here. It ups their chances of play partners. Now, I have no way to gauge if they are truly bi and have been with another man and love that or just curious of what it would be like to be with another man. There's a big difference.

Originally Posted by corynlaine

And you know what they say about little lie big lie!?

No, I don't... can you explain? I really have not been living in a cave, either.

[corynlaine]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I am what I am and thats all that I am *toot toot*.



The question is who is being dishonest, and that would be the bi guys GIRLS. I'm honestly not bi, and I honestly don't find it attractive or a turn on, in fact its a turn off.

Its up to the bi guys GIRLS to say we're here, we're not <strike>queer</strike> DIKES, but we like cock CUNT.

Now I suppose its negative of me to think there is no such thing as 'straight' and 'likes cock' 'likes cunt' in the same sentence but thats just semantics, and it seems to be the semantics everyone is afraid of.

there fixed it for you



Edit _ I couldn't get strike to work for some reason

[realcplub2]

Originally Posted by Samsa

I am a bisexual male who is new here and wanted some opinions on this idea. I feel that intimacy shouldn't be restricted between gender. I understand having a preference of pussy or cock, but what I don't understand is being able to form a preference before trying the best of both worlds. A huge part of this, of course, is the stigma of being bisexual or gay, but anyone with the guts to overlook that will likely find something pleasurable.

I'm going to leave it at that for now and just wanted to get some feedback from you guys on this, since I figure people in the swing community are likely a bit more open minded and willing to step outside their immediate comfort zone.

I have read all the posts in this thread and rather than comment on the statements made I prefer to bring it back to the OP

My friend, your question while it has drawn a lot of comment, is, a matter of PERSONAL PREFERENCE. You draw conclusions that are without inclusion of the one factor involved, the CHOICE.

I love going to airshows, which most often include SKYDIVING. the act of jumping out of a perfectly good airplane to "fly" - FALL and then float to the ground on some rope and nylon.. Pretty to watch but I aint setting foot on a plane let alone stepping out before it gets BACK DOWN.. And I love adventure.. but its my PREFERENCE .. see what I am sayin?

A child, will and does often argue that they do not like this food or that one without trying it.. because they do not have the tools to make an informed descion, Right? Using that train of thought, you are supposing EVERYONE should be FORCED to spend a bit o time between the knees of the same sex before saying.. No.

This lifestyle that this board is devoted to, is all about PERSONAL CHOICE AND PREFERENCES. Becareful before making statements about what EVERYONE should do before making choices about what they like or dont.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by corynlaine

there fixed it for you



Edit _ I couldn't get strike to work for some reason

I know you were trying to make a point, but it really missed the point.

Bi girls are not the problem, they admit liking pussy and are not often afraid to talk about being bi on the forum.

To put it crudely my wife licks pussy now and then, its not an issue.

The problem is the guys. The only time this forum is hostile to male bisexuals is when they or their mates state that the straight males are somehow flawed or at fault for not being bi.

I take exception to that.

Otherwise they can talk about the joys and problems about being bi without any hostility.

[LFM2]

Chicup... I totally agree (200&#37 with your last post!!

[SW_PA_Couple]

Originally Posted by Chicup

The problem is the guys. The only time this forum is hostile to male bisexuals is when they or their mates state that the straight males are somehow flawed or at fault for not being bi.

I'm with you on this question.

As far as fearing the stigma, I will admit it. I would be remembered for all the wrong reasons if I was seen puking all over a guy's pubis while trying to perform a sexual act. Sorry. It's just the way G*d created me.

[Samsa]

Alright, so now I understand that people may have their own personal preference for sexuality. There are kinks that appall rather then appeal to me. Although I can understand this, it still makes no sense to me. I have to agree with Chicup while I repeat that a lot of guys simply dont like the idea of stepping out of their comfort zone. You can't ignore the stigma, and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Samsa

Alright, so now I understand that people may have their own personal preference for sexuality. There are kinks that appall rather then appeal to me. Although I can understand this, it still makes no sense to me. I have to agree with Chicup while I repeat that a lot of guys simply dont like the idea of stepping out of their comfort zone. You can't ignore the stigma, and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

I happen to study evolutionary sociobiology as a hobby. Its not surprising that there are more females listed as bisexual than males as female bisexuality seems more common and more 'true'. Many male bisexuals are men who really are trying to figure out what team they bat for, and most female bisexuals are just that, bisexual.

That may explain some numbers, but I do think you are correct in that a lot of bi males are 'in the closet' in swinging. I've seen more than a few profile which give what I see as glaring hints to the males bisexuality but with plausible deniablity.

The possible reasons have been gone over before here, and most of it stems from once you say you are bi you ONLY get contacted by couples where the other guy says he is bi too.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by Samsa

{snip} and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

I think part of it could be "true" per Chicup, part of it is due to couples with bisexual women gravitating toward swinging to satisfy that urge.

In my opinion, a large part of it is peer pressure.

What I mean is this: with the amount of pressure, both overt and implied, for women to be bisexual in swinging, the tendency is for the woman to find her highest level of comfort with bisexuality and claim that. This is definitely what I have done and how I am still evolving. I don't have any problem admitting that I am influenced by my environment. Unless a woman has a real aversion to bisexual activity, many will try it from time to time and may do some things they don't feel a compelling desire to do. I do this because my philosophy is to try things, and that variety is good, and because even though I am not drawn to (most) women, I feel enough of a desire that if it adds to my own experience and that of others, hey, I'm game. Over time, they may develop a comfort level with it, and as their comfort level expands their desires may evolve, as mine are. In other words, the more I do it, the more I like it. I am speaking of women like me who don't feel that desire to begin with, or at least don't feel it strongly enough to motivate them without external factors. I'm sure I'm not alone out there.

The opposite pressure is there for the men (in most places*), for plenty of reasons that have been discussed on other threads. So the tendency for the men (with some exceptions) is for the men to find their lowest level of bisexuality and claim that. Unless a man has a strong desire for bisexual activity, and a willingness to embrace that in spite of the peer pressure, he may be "straight" even if he has a teensy bit of curiosity. Maybe even if he is aware of his own curiosity, but it's not that strong, and so not worth the possible consequences.

*LFM2 said the percentage of bisexual men is 50&#37; in her area. I don't know where she lives, but I am guessing that is unusual in most parts of the States. Do we have any data on geographical variation? In our area, the bi-curious and bi men are definitely in the minority, perhaps 20% on AFF and 10-15% on Swing Lifestyle, as a guess.

This is obviously just my opinion and I may get taken to task for it, but environment is a very strong factor in social norms. I don't see how we can ignore its influence when considering these very skewed numbers.

[rickmccool]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I happen to study evolutionary sociobiology as a hobby. Its not surprising that there are more females listed as bisexual than males as female bisexuality seems more common and more 'true'. Many male bisexuals are men who really are trying to figure out what team they bat for, and most female bisexuals are just that, bisexual.

I'm not sure what 'evolutionary sociobiology' is but as a bi male who has self analyzed all my life you are dead wrong. I agree that women are more comfortable with their sexuality for several reasons, including not having their minds fucked up by High School locker room talk but if a reliable survey was taken I think you'd find there are just as many truely bisexual men as there are bisexual women. Probably to the Nth degree. I myself am one and I know how I feel. I also have a close male friend who is the same way, and we entertain my(our) girlfriend pretty regularly. He definitely goes both ways and loves it as I do. I have met many other men who are the same way.

Everyone sees the world though their own eyes and I think many, including you and also the person who started this thread, fall into the trap of thinking that everyone is like themselves.

[Speed & Trixie]

Originally Posted by Samsa

.... and I really think it does say something that a majority of females claim to be bisexual or bicurious while only a minority of males do the same.

What do you think this "says," if I may ask? That both men and women are possibly feeling the social pressures/ expectations based on their gender? I would tend to agree with that, but I do also believe that there are more "truly" bisexual women than men, biologically speaking.

I can't find the thread now, but there was a nice doctor on here that was doing research on the sexual spectrum of males and females. I tend to think of sexuality or sexual preference as just that: a spectrum (rather than one's options being one of 3 categories straight/bi/gay). And the doc had some actual numbers based on his research, which was in both the swinger and vanilla populations.

As Mrs. Fuse mentioned, there are lots of women somewhere in-between (bi-comfy?) who are willing to explore their bi-side and perhaps push their comfort zone in that respect. I think part of that is biology, and part of it is envrionmental influence.

Trixie

[corynlaine]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I know you were trying to make a point, but it really missed the point.

Bi girls are not the problem, they admit liking pussy and are not often afraid to talk about being bi on the forum.

To put it crudely my wife licks pussy now and then, its not an issue.

The problem is the guys.

I take exception to that.

Otherwise they can talk about the joys and problems about being bi without any hostility.

Well, Ok, my point may not have been made well, but REALLY -
-

The only time this forum is hostile to male bisexuals is when they or their mates state that the straight males are somehow flawed or at fault for not being bi.

I am bi-curious because though never done it I am open to the idea. I am NOT requiring YOU to be. In this post as well as others I have CLEARLY ( I thought) stated that I CAN understand your point as there are things which I get no kick from and would never try, so by DEFINITION I am clearly stating that I DO NOT believe that there is anything wrong WITH you if you are not bi/bi-curious. HOWEVER, What I do say is that there is something wrong with you because OF your attitude towards others - YOU , have made statements to the effect that Bi-curious men are REALLY just homos - yet you don't apply this standard to women. YOU have made statements to the effect that should this "kind of behavior be tolerated" you would quit the lifestyle.

You display, openly, a double and intolerant standard when it comes to women vs men who make statements to the effect that they are bi-curious or bi with the "right". And because this attitude seems to SO be predominant is why I said that it's hard to believe that there are so few bi man. It's far more likely that they are unwilling to come out because they receive your open contempt and then cheered by the converted.


And THAT is the ONLY place where hostility towards bi men comes from.

Unless you care to show me posts I made or missed where bi-men are on a rampage about the inadequacies and shortcomings of straight men!

Yea I didn't think so.

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

*LFM2 said the percentage of bisexual men is 50% in her area. I don't know where she lives, but I am guessing that is unusual in most parts of the States. Do we have any data on geographical variation? In our area, the bi-curious and bi men are definitely in the minority, perhaps 20% on AFF and 10-15% on Swing Lifestyle, as a guess.

This is obviously just my opinion and I may get taken to task for it, but environment is a very strong factor in social norms. I don't see how we can ignore its influence when considering these very skewed numbers.

I've often pondered this myself. Why do the men feel so comfortable with their sexuality here, while 150 miles away they are scared as rabbits to post anything at all? I can't believe that geographically, there are just more bisexual men here than anywhere else. I'm sure it has to do with comfort.

We are a pretty tight knit group of swingers here that are pretty darn comfy with each other. Is is that comfort that lets them list in their profile that they are bisexual? Have they not ever tested their bisexuality out and are really just bi-curious? If they are bisexual, I know that they don't push their preference with the men that are straight. Maybe that leads them to be more comfortable with their sexuality. I don't know.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by corynlaine

YOU , have made statements to the effect that Bi-curious men are REALLY just homos - yet you don't apply this standard to women.

*sigh*

A study published by the American Psychological Association recognizes that women can maintain a long-term attraction to both genders. This study, done over 10 years, was intended to refute the myth that bisexual women were lesbians trying to straddle the fence between societal expectations and their true feelings. It also shows that bisexual women are able to commit to long-term relationships.

another study

Using a sensor to monitor sexual arousal, the researchers found what they expected: gay men showed arousal to images of men and little arousal to images of women, and heterosexual men showed arousal to women but not to men.

But the men in the study who described themselves as bisexual did not have patterns of arousal that were consistent with their stated attraction to men and to women. Instead, about three-quarters of the group had arousal patterns identical to those of gay men; the rest were indistinguishable from heterosexuals.
....
The Advocate, the gay-oriented newsmagazine, found that, before identifying themselves as gay, 40 percent of gay men had described themselves as bisexual.

"I'm not denying that bisexual behavior exists," said Dr. Bailey, "but I am saying that in men there's no hint that true bisexual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation."


Science she be a harsh mistress....

YOU have made statements to the effect that should this "kind of behavior be tolerated" you would quit the lifestyle.

Not quite, I'd quit going to clubs, since I find such activities to be a turn off. So no I hope it doesn't catch on so to speak since I like having clubs as an option. Being Mrs. Chicup finds it an even bigger turn off than I do, its not even about me at this point.

You display, openly, a double and intolerant standard when it comes to women vs men who make statements to the effect that they are bi-curious or bi with the "right". And because this attitude seems to SO be predominant is why I said that it's hard to believe that there are so few bi man. It's far more likely that they are unwilling to come out because they receive your open contempt and then cheered by the converted.

Sorry, this is a message board, in fact its the only place I've ever mentioned this topic. I find it interesting from a biology standpoint, and quite fascinating, but I don't find it sexy.

And THAT is the ONLY place where hostility towards bi men comes from.

Unless you care to show me posts I made or missed where bi-men are on a rampage about the inadequacies and shortcomings of straight men!

Yea I didn't think so.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. This thread started by talking about having the 'guts' to try bisexuality. Thats the kind of attitude I'm talking about and think I already covered. Its not about stigma or guts for a lot of us, its just pure desire.

I'm sorry you obviously find it offensive I don't want to see male bi contact at the clubs (note the key word, see, I don't care what you do when the door is closed). Thats not going to change, its not about tolerance, I tolerate bisexual and gay males just fine, I am friends with gay males, its not an issue. I just don't enjoy watching men have sex with other men. I do enjoy watching women have sex with other women. Double standard? Sure. Do I care? No.

If male bisexually is as common as some say, then you have nothing to fear from coming out of the bisexual closet. Swinging still boils down to economics at the clubs. Show the club owners they can't discriminate if they want to survive or start clubs which allow it, either way it should be fine IF the numbers are that high.