Why the Double Standard?

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Its time for this thread again already?

My time seems to be passing faster and faster as I get older.

Every two weeks whether we need it or not... right?

I think the double standard is a carry-over from society as a whole. Swinging is really representative of socity as a whole.... the same issues you see amongst vanillas still exist in the swinging world and just because people are more open-minded doesn't mean that they aren't still closed minded about some things.

Just as male bisexuality is still very much in the closet in the vanilla world, so is it in the swinging world. From my experience I'd say that at least 1/3 of swinging men are bi-curious if not bi-active. Since I don't openly discuss sexuality with as many vanilla men, I can't say that it is the same with them, but I'm willing to guess that it is. Society seems to have opened the door for men to be gay... but for some reason male bisexuality still has a huge stigma attached to it.

Originally Posted by Beardedknight

And the comment by "SCcpl40 Re: Why the Double Standard?
Go to the CDC and read about the risk of AIDS in male bisexuals. That should answer your question." Makes me shake my head. And the reason for that is that anyone who does not use condoms in this lifestyle is not only having sex with the currant sex partner but with everyone else they have had sex with (with no protection).

This is a great point that too many people often choose to ignore.

[lovinher]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Its time for this thread again already?

My time seems to be passing faster and faster as I get older.

Originally Posted by justaskjulie

Every two weeks whether we need it or not... right?

We are about due for the thread about a cheating bi-sexual married man with a STD (in a poly relationship) who refuses to wear condoms but is really a cuckold posing as a single guy with a 12" dick that can last for hours that loves cream pies and rimming. He also has a whole bunch of rules and is conflicted because of his religious upbringing but wants to come out of the closet.

OP-your question is valid of course, but there are no easy answers. Grab a six pack (or 2)and do a search. Give yourself plenty of time and don't have any knives or guns within reach. In the end you will have learned nothing and you will be more pissed off than you were when you started.

[Greg & Sheryl]

Originally Posted by Beardedknight

And the comment by "SCcpl40 Re: Why the Double Standard?
Go to the CDC and read about the risk of AIDS in male bisexuals. That should answer your question." Makes me shake my head. And the reason for that is that anyone who does not use condoms in this lifestyle is not only having sex with the currant sex partner but with everyone else they have had sex with (with no protection). And it really amazes me how many people we have met that do not use condoms, have even had a few couples who decline having sex with us becuase we require everyone to use condoms.

If we are understanding you correctly, you seem to be saying that even though bisexual males are statistically more likely to carry HIV, it shouldn't matter because everyone should be using condoms, anyway. That thinking is based on the assumption that most people would be willing to have sex with an HIV-positive individual as long as the sex was protected. We don't believe that's true.

[bill&sabrina]

Originally Posted by Greg & Sheryl

If we are understanding you correctly, you seem to be saying that even though bisexual males are statistically more likely to carry HIV, it shouldn't matter because everyone should be using condoms, anyway. That thinking is based on the assumption that most people would be willing to have sex with an HIV-positive individual as long as the sex was protected. We don't believe that's true.

My guess is that people say they won't play with bi men because statistically they are more likely to carry HIV. Then they go have unprotected sex with someone they met a couple of hours ago.

Bill

[Greg & Sheryl]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

My guess is that people say they won't play with bi men because statistically they are more likely to carry HIV. Then they go have unprotected sex with someone they met a couple of hours ago.

Bill

The point we are trying to make is that even though someone may be fastidious about using condoms, that won't necessarily make that person less likely to avoid playing with bisexual males.

[ourrockstarlife]

Originally Posted by SCcpl40

Go to the CDC and read about the risk of AIDS in male bisexuals. That should answer your question.

Actually, AIDS is more prevalent in heterosexuals now. So that homophobic theory is out the window.

[Greg & Sheryl]

Originally Posted by ourrockstarlife

Actually, AIDS is more prevalent in heterosexuals now.

We have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but here is our source, courtesy of the CDC: HIV/AIDS Cases by Transmission Category

[Spoomonkey]

I will say, just to add to the discussion in my own slightly naive way, a man having (or possibly having) an STD (specifically AIDS) has no bearing on whather or not I want to have sex with him.

It is the penis that is putting me off...

Spoomonkey

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Society seems to have opened the door for men to be gay... but for some reason male bisexuality still has a huge stigma attached to it.

Gays and lesbians have worked hard and suffered much in "coming out of the closet" and forcing society to either accept them or deal with them. The persecution and venom they had to face for their courage is hard for me to compare to the "plight" of bisexual male swingers - who's resume of "activism" includes complaining on websites, aggressively misusing the word "hypocrite" and listing themselves on Swing Lifestyle as "straight".

I think the confusion is around the idea of "tolerance". A person can be very supportive of certain things (sexual identity being one of them) without wanting to watch or participate in them. For example, I can support the rights of homosexuals to marry, but it doesn't mean I want to watch them in bed together.

In most parts of society, this is understood and accepted and hardly an issue. But as swingers, it is sort of expected by bisexual men that since some of us enjoy seeing two women have sex (I am not particularly interested in watching that myself, which makes me a minority ) we should also want to watch them have sex; and we are some how low-brow cretin with a serious case of homophobia if we do not.

If they stepped back and thought about this dispassionately (which can be difficult to do on subjects we have such a strong opinion or personal investment in, I'll admit) I think they'd see that this is an unreasonable position and is asking more of others than they are willing (and able) to give of themselves. And if they did that - and approached the issue with a different tact than is common - they may actually develop a meaningful dialog on the topic.

Spoomonkey

[bill&sabrina]

Originally Posted by Greg & Sheryl

The point we are trying to make is that even though someone may be fastidious about using condoms, that won't necessarily make that person less likely to avoid playing with bisexual males.

I'll agree with that, but I think that is opposite of what you originally quoted.

[ourrockstarlife]

Originally Posted by Greg & Sheryl

We have no idea how you came to that conclusion, but here is our source, courtesy of the CDC: HIV/AIDS Cases by Transmission Category

Worldwide, the incidence of HIV infection is reflected in heterosexuals at 85%

In the United States, 31% of cases in heteros and 42% in homosexuals

If you are speaking CDC, a US department, than YES the incidence of HIV infection is higher for homosexuals, BUT NOT BY MUCH.

Worldwide, the infection is simply passed through unprotected sex, and is more prevelant in heterosexuals.

You can't hide homophobia behind a disease, especially one that is NOT a gay disease anymore.

The simple fact is this: women are more willing to participate in homosexual behavior for the pleasure and attention of the men around them. There are some true bisexual women in the lifestyle, but from my experience, you mostly see women performing the old "frat party ho down"

There is not so much of a calling for male homosexual exhibitionism, and although it is not fair to those who like to indulge in that sort of play, it is just the lifestyles own guidelines (however biased they may be). The majority rules.

[VegasLee]

Since some want to throw out stats here are current stats:

During 2007, some 2.5 million people became infected with the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), which causes AIDS.

The year also saw 2.1 million deaths from AIDS but the number of deaths have declined since 2005.


Globally, around 11% of HIV infections are among babies who acquire the virus from their mothers; 10% result from injecting drug use; 5-10% are due to sex between men; and 5-10% occur in health care settings. Sex between men and women accounts for the remaining proportion – around two thirds of new infections.

In the U.S. men with aids, 59% where exposed through men on men sex. Women with aids, 65% where exposed through heterosexual contact.

Bottom line there is a double standard in the lifestyle as there has been for years and will be for years to come. There is no reason to fight or argue or call anyone names over it, it is the way it is. As time goes on it WILL change as many things have in the lifestyle over the years. Every change takes time.

Gays and lesbians did not come out over night and the bi men are not going to be accepted over night either. This subject gets brought up monthly here and on other boards if not more often. No matter what ANYONE says, there are bi men at every club in this country. They may keep it private but they are there.

It appears that many would rather just stir the pot rather than read the threads that have had this same discussion. There really is nothing new to say about it that I am aware of but if I am wrong someone please let me know.

Beating something to death does not make it happen.

[ourrockstarlife]

Internet...........serious business............

[stu]

....

[stu]

Originally Posted by Beardedknight

I would like to hear comments from anyone that wishes to add their thoughts without being rude or vicious about this question:
Why is there a Double Standard when it comes to Bisexuality in Swinging?

It is okay, if not expected, for women to be Bisexual. But when it comes to guys being Bisexual it is totally frowned on or even banned, in most "On Premise" Clubs and even in most swing groups that are not On Premise.

Also wondering if the thought of two men together, turns any of you women on?

Thanks in advance to all that reply.

The soft touch of a woman, curvaceuous, sexy, cute,gentle, all traits attributed to a woman ( and rightly so ).

Cant say that for men.

Those are the qualities most men are looking for.

Beauty is hardly ever attributed to men. Hirsute. Cant really blame the men for not being able to appreciate the body of another man. ( for sex )...its not curvaceous,not soft....

Though women are genetically engineered to desire a mans body..they can still appreciate the beauty inherent in a woman.

Men appreciating a woman...is no big deal...they are beautiful beings...but appreciating another man...( for sex )....
I wouldnt know what to look for

I dont think they are double standards....just plain commn sense

this is just a mans point of view (Mine)...and probably I havent been able to put it across too well.

Two men having sex...cant really imagine finding it sexy.....but thats me....Everyone to their own point of view.