The swinging industry needs to be less homophobic to men

[mackie44]

The swinging industry has always prided itself on being open-minded. Indeed, one of the catch-cries of the industry has been "freedom". However, I'm seriously starting to wonder whether this is actually true. The amount of discrimination that many swing clubs show towards the male-male interaction is quite shocking. This isn't true open-mindedness.

I'm not saying that individual swingers should do things or accept things in their own lives that they don't want to. I'm simply suggesting that swing clubs should not be banning the male-male interaction. I would also say that many of the clubs are skating on thin legal ice in relation to this.

[bill&sabrina]

These are private clubs, if you don't like the rules don't join. Even if you could force clubs to let men play with each other, you can't force people to attend places they don't want to. I would love to play with men at the clubs, but not at the expense of running off playmates.

Bill

[WesternSwing]

I guess some may look at it as an "industry", especially if one is reducing catering to swingers simply as a commercial transaction, but I hardly believe to those that swing that it is an "industry". The word "industry" by nature denotes a business.

That said, I've never seen where a club has a posted "No Male-Male" rule, however depending on the mindset of some of the patrons, this activity may or may not be totally accepted.

Mr. WS

[tribbles]

Club Taboo in Corona has a gay/bi/les/alternative nite on Thursdays

[tribbles]

As for legal, can anyone tell me how true the Free single female/charge for single males is going thru the courts? I heard that it was discrimination and one club out here already went couples only because of the legal issues.

[VegasLee]

I had not heard of a club going to couples only because of legal issues. Would be interested in more information about that one since I write about those issues and follow them up.

As far as Swingers being opened minded I will agree to an extent about most swingers being very closed minded when it comes to Bi men. I have seen it a great deal even though in the last two to three years more Bi men are coming out.

Here in Vegas it is allowed but due to how most people in the Lifestyle are we suggest that it be taken to the private rooms and that all entering that room be aware. Surprises cause problems and no one wants problems.

Many times people in this lifestyle will put something down because it is not something they want to be involved in. Does not make sense to me but it is true. See it all the time. Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes.

[Spoomonkey]

Our club has a clearly stated "no male of male" rule.

Considering the patronage of our club, that is probably a good thing. I don't think there would really be a problem with two men interacting in a play situation behind closed doors, but I am aware of people being kicked out of the club for breaking that rule within the common view.

I am all for sexual freedom, but frankly, many folks within the swinging world simply don't want to see two men have sex. It would be "anti-erotic" and take away from their experience.

Clubs make rules to benefit their target audience. Just like designated smoking areas or different fees for singles. Bisexual activity is less accepted at a club because it is less on an interest for most people within swinging.

Spoomonkey

[DBL D]

I'm sure there are ladies out there who are turned off by G-G play at clubs. If the club they attend is the only one near to them they have to put up with it. I'm sure there was a time when it wasn't as accepted as it is. Why has it become OK? Because the men say it is. Why isn't M-M play accepted? Because the men (and some women) are uncomfortable with it. Until we as people grow to the point where we can accept othe peoples POV, this will be an issue.

Why does everything have to be majority rules? Because we are basically close-minded.

Male D

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by DBL D

Why does everything have to be majority rules?

Because it is the majority who pays the bills

And very few club owners are into it for the social statement.

Your example is a perfect one - there are some women who are turned off by it, but I would venture that it is not a majority of women who are turned off by it. But, let two men dance together and make out under the sleazy tickling glow of the dance floor disco ball and a majority of club patrons (at our club, at least) would be turned off by it.

Why is this?

Who knows... Maybe that is a job for psychologists...

But it is what it is - and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Now me personally? We worked a large gay party a few months ago and there was plenty of men who got pretty friendly. It didn't bother me one bit. It wasn't a turn on, as I think is very clear from my other postings around here, but it didn't bother me. Then again - I have a lot of gay friends and am not the least bit insecure in my sexuality.

But - my personal comfort levels aside - I would think very few club owners would take a "why should the majority rule" mentality... That'd be suicide for most clubs.

Spoomonkey

[DBL D]

I'm not "pushing" for society to change. I understand profit motivation.

I'm just one of those people who feel we can all be more tolerant than most of us really are. I'm just kinda intolerant of intolerance

Other than that, this could be similar to how swingers used to have to get together...from the silent, dark places. Keep the M-M to private parties where everyone knows what the "theme" is until public acceptance changes.

On another point, I think that is the point of 70's shows...to show that some of these things aren't new. Sorta makes it more acceptable in some ways.

Male D

[mackie44]

Male sexuality can be just as fluid as female sexuality. It's just that men aren't as comfortable in theirs because of the social forces that shape their upbringing. There's a huge double standard in the swinging world hierarchy in that male bisexuality is looked down upon but female bisexuality is glamorized. I think it's got something to do with propping up the straight guy fantasy.

It would be great to see a swinging world where true freedom exists, not this half-freedom that currently exists. Individuals should be able to interact with whomever they want to so long as there is mutual consent and respect for each other.

[Suncouple]

As they say on the TV commercial (sort of).

"Start your own club!"

Really! It's not like buying a railroad.

Put together a business plan. Figure out how many customers you will have, what sort of fixed and variable costs there will be, how much you have to charge and go for it! Start-up costs are not going to be prohibitive. See about an SBA loan.

Run it just the way you think a club should be run. Make up your own "rules".

If there are many other individuals who share your interests you will at least break even and may even be able to cut back on your day job.

Good luck!

[Chicup]

Tolerant doesn't mean you like something it means you tolerate it.

We go to clubs for OUR enjoyment, not as a social statement. We are tolerant of MM activities, they can do what they want, but we don't want to see it, we do not enjoy it and its a turn off for us which takes away from our enjoyment. The same thing applies to bdsm involving pain, or watersports or whatever. Do what you want, but if you are doing it around us we are going to leave.

Apparently we are not alone in this and clubs are more willing to keep couples like us there than cater to those into bi-male activities.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by mackie44

It would be great to see a swinging world where true freedom exists, not this half-freedom that currently exists.

If there are couples out there who would prefer not to be around MM activity, wouldn't allowing MM activity be another form of "half-freedom"? The idea of "true freedom" is only possible when people respect others. A part of that respect is allowing people their comfort zones.

Spoomonkey

[CuriousInOregon]

I dont really have an Opinion on this subject I kind of feel like to each their own. ok maybe I have a slight opinion, I wouldn't be "offended" if there were MM activity going on around me Yes it would be distracting but not offensive. I think for those who would be offended or Caught off guard and a bit uneasy should truely look at the Lifestyle they are getting into. Swing is a Lifestyle for all who are mature enough to handle it. We here on the board try not to Judge those with "odd" fetish's Right so Who are we to judge men whom chose to be with Men? Maybe it might make it easier if the clubs had a Specific area like the Fetish rooms then you dont have to Just "happen" upon sites you chose to not witness.

THERES MY 2 CENTS NOW WHERES MY CHANGE?

hehehe