The swinging industry needs to be less homophobic to men

[lovinher]

I don't see why individuals should curtail their same-sex activity because they are in your presence. That's a very regal attitude you have, I'm afraid. If you don't like it, don't do it and don't watch it.

At the end of the day, I think swing clubs should allow both forms of homosexual activity, not just one. When only one is allowed, it reeks of hypocrisy.

WTF dude! Have you read anything here? You obviously do not have a grasp on free enterprise, the rights or preferences of those that pay to attend the clubs. If you don't like the policy, find another club. Why is that so hard to understand?

Would you similarly agree with a "no blacks" policy at a swing club if the majority of members didn't want blacks there?

Another completely idiotic statement. I don't think anything anybody could say will get through your one track mind. I posted previously and Chicup touched on it also. Who draws the line and what is it? Try thinking about that for minute.

Maybe you can spend your time on finding a place that caters to your wants if that is even possible.

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

I'm not sure what you mean by "professions", but I don't think my posts had anything in them about what folks would "allow" their SO to do at all. It's all about what club clientele want to see or don't want to see. The question of what one spouse thinks is "normal" or acceptable is a subject for private negotiation and only slightly related to what is okay to do in front of a crowd.

If Mr. Fuse wanted to be with a guy, my only concern would be that STD's are more easily communicated via anal sex, so I'd make sure he knew I wanted him to be as safe as possible about it. I might even watch, even though it's not like a guy watching two women... I don't have a fantasy of jumping into the middle of two guys. But we'd go in a private room, out of deference for what others may not want to see. Simple as that.

About "true freedom"...In the end, we can't control each other and shouldn't want to do that. We can all do what we want to, ultimately. But I do think our desires and comfort levels should matter to each other. True freedom might be granted, but that doesn't mean our feelings don't have consequences. I think a balance is necessary. Freedom and responsibility are two sides of the same coin.

Well, I just looked it up to be sure. I saw that the 4th definition is for someone who professes something. I am a man, therefore I profess to be a man. Men and women have different "professions"...

I would like to see clubs advertise dances for bi-couples...just because it shows a certain sensitivity on the owners part. It would be a risk I suppose, and might alienate his regular clientele. Perhaps the OP would just like to know that there are places to go where MM activity is accepted. We surely shouldn't expect all private clubs to adhere to the same set of business guidelines.

Are you saying that transmission of a disease is more easily accomplished with a man than a woman through anal sex (or any other sexual activity)? I believe they would have about the same rates.

Male D

[Cpl2share]

As for social acceptance (in and out of the lifestyle) I read a study, but do not recall who did it or published it, that had this finding:

Most people are more accepting (and turned on by) female/female play because a woman can do nothing to another woman that a man doesn't do. Oral is performed the same, and the orifaces that are entered are the same as those behaviors and practices of a man on a woman. However: The interaction of man/man play does bring a completely different level. A woman does not have the equipment (other than fingers) to insert into a man, and an anus, by nature, is designed to eliminate waste, not as a recepticle. This is why more people are offended by M/M play than F/F.

That being said: To each his own, We prefer not to see M/M, it is a trun off for us. We are not being homophobic, we are following what we are turned on by. I have no interest in watching people play tennis, and do not want to play it either, but that does not mean that I am scared of tennis, it just means that I do not engage in that sport, nor do I watch it or choose to be in an area that it is played.

[Chicup]

As a rule male to female and male to male transmission rates are higher than female to male or female to female.

Being that male to male sort of 'doubles' the risk over male to female, thats where the easier spread of STD's come from.

[BCinIN]

Are you saying that transmission of a disease is more easily accomplished with a man than a woman through anal sex (or any other sexual activity)? I believe they would have about the same rates.

They would...if the rate of STD-infected gay/bi males weren't so much higher than that of infected straight men and women. But all else being equal, if the odds of your partner during a given sexual activity are, for example, three times as high as another partner, so are your odds of contracting the disease.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by Cpl2share

I have no interest in watching people play tennis, and do not want to play it either, but that does not mean that I am scared of tennis, it just means that I do not engage in that sport, nor do I watch it or choose to be in an area that it is played.

So I am willing to bet you do not go to Tennis clubs and try to get them to become Swingers clubs?

[mackie44]

A healthy bi man is no more or less risky than a healthy straight man. In both cases, the risk of catching a disease from them is zero.

As for the notion that there is an extra dimension to the male-male interaction that repels some people, keep in mind that many bi men do not perform anal sex but simply keep the bi aspect at the level of touching etc.

[BCinIN]

Originally Posted by mackie44

A healthy bi man is no more or less risky than a healthy straight man. In both cases, the risk of catching a disease from them is zero.

Mmm-hmm. But the percentage of bi men that is disease-free is significantly smaller than the percentage of straight men that is disease-free. Thus, the odds of contracting diseases from a random bi male is higher.

I know you know that already, and are more concerned with diverting the discussion in a direction that supports your cause rather than actual statistics (which don't at all), but I thought I'd respond anyway.

[mackie44]

BCinIN,

Where are your "significant" figures to support your statement that "the percentage of bi men that is disease-free is significantly smaller than the percentage of straight men that is disease-free"? I don't think you have any. Demonizing bi men through disease is the oldest trick in the book.

[Chicup]

A significant association was found between HIV seropositivity and a history of syphilis (P = .04); both were more frequent among homosexual/bisexual men than among heterosexual IVDUs.

Syphilis cases were more likely to be in gay or bisexual men, those with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection, those who had anonymous partners, and those who met sex partners on the Internet. Increases in sexual activity and sexual risk behavior in men who have sex with men during this period have been attributed to the improved physical health of HIV-infected men on highly active antiretroviral therapy, HIV treatment optimism, increases in methamphetamine use, and the use of Viagra.

Conclusion: The high prevalence of HIV in the black community
and the greater likelihood of bisexuality among
black men place heterosexual black women at risk for HIV
infection.


Syphilis Rates Soar in Gay and Bisexual Men
The Center for Disease Control and Prevention has issued a report that despite steady declines in syphilis rates among African Americans, women and babies between 1999 and 2004, overall numbers continued to rise driven by a dramatic jump in infections among gay and bisexual men.

Nearly two-thirds, or 64-percent, of all the new syphilis cases in 2004 were in men who had engaged in homosexual activity, according to the CDC. That same group made up just 5-percent of new infections in 1999, the report said.

Simple google search.

At any rate bisexual men do seem to have a greater % chance of having an STD. Of course no studies were done on male bisexual swingers, but just take your average bisexual male, you have a better chance of them having an STD.

[VegasLee]

"bangdesk" mackie44 has no desire to deal in facts. He wants the world to be his way or no way. He has more then proven that in this thread.

There are many clubs in this world that welcome him and the way he wants things to be but until we all agree that all clubs are going to be the way he wants them he is not going to leave it alone.

:deadhorse:

[good times]

Originally Posted by mackie44

BCinIN,

Where are your "significant" figures to support your statement that "the percentage of bi men that is disease-free is significantly smaller than the percentage of straight men that is disease-free"? I don't think you have any. Demonizing bi men through disease is the oldest trick in the book.

Like Chicup said, a simple internet search will turn up plenty of documented statistics on this.

It isn't demonizing at all, it is just well documented fact, so much so that it is considered common knowledge. In fact, it is one of the few facts in the whole STD research world that is universally agreed upon.

[mackie44]

Puh-lease. Up to 7 years ago, syphilis was far more common in straights. Yet the swinging industry still had the same double standard in relation to homosexuality - ie. two hot chicks OK, two bi guys not OK. Face it - you supposedly open-minded guys are not so open-minded when it comes to male bisexuality. You have a HUGE hypocrisy problem.

Besides, I wouldn't have unprotected sex with anybody (gay, straight, bi) whose health status I wasn't confident in. Using disease to demonize gay/bi men is a poor excuse to justify your prejudice towards male bisexuals.

[mackie44]

Keep in mind that many swing clubs don't ban just male-male sexual intercourse, they also ban male-male touching. I don't see how you can catch anything from male-male touching. Face it - using disease to demonize gay/bi men is just another pathetic attempt to maintain the status quo in swinging. Thankfully many people are waking up to it and realizing that swinging is for prudes. Swingers are no longer at the vanguard of the hip and tolerant.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by mackie44

Swingers are no longer at the vanguard of the hip and tolerant.

How long ago was it hip to use the word "hip"?



Spoomonkey