The swinging industry needs to be less homophobic to men

[VegasLee]

I don't think there is a night at the club that I don't see something I would rather not see. Just the way it is. There is 100's of people there enjoying their self and doing what works for them.

I just don't stare at the things I don't want to see and I never let what other people are doing effect my mood or my fun. I won't give them that kind of power over me.

If they are breaking the rules I am going to put a stop to it, that is my job but if they are just having fun doing their own thing more power to them. I am there to have fun, they are there to have fun. We all do different things to have fun.

[good times]

You know, it is kind of funny to me when I see this topic of discussion because I have been to both types of clubs, those that forbid M/M play and those that allow it. We have a local club that is a gay bar but once a month has a swingers party. M/M contact is not forbidden or even discouraged at this club, and since their regular patrons (gays) are also there on the swing party nights, I am pretty sure their are some people there that wouldn't mind seeing it. Yet, even though we have been attending their monthly parties for over a year and it is an on-premise club with no private play rooms, I have never seen any bi-males engaging in M/M activities. During that same time I have seen many women engaging in F/F play and lots of F/M play, but never any guys playing. What this leads me to believe is that their just isn't very much demand for it, even though I know several couples that the males are Bi and singles bi-males that attend this party.

So, this only seems to me to be a problem because some people take offense, and see it as a narrow minded double standard, that the management of some clubs, in their efforts to give their clientele what they want, refuse to allow M/M activity, not because their is so many bi-males clamoring to have M/M play at the clubs. If our experience is any indication though, this topic is a moot point, because my guess is that you would see very little M/M play even if it were allowed at all the clubs.

Funny thing is, the clubs that don't allow M/M activity may have a good point based on our experience. The reason I say that is because well over half of the swingers I know refuse to go to the local club that allows M/M activity, but I have never once heard of anyone that refused to go to a club because they didn't allow it. Fact is, were I to manage a swingers club, I would probably take an approach similar to what VegasLee's club does, I probably wouldn't forbid it, but on the off chance anyone wanted to do it, I would direct them to take it behind closed doors. Because, like it or not, if our experience is any indication, most swingers find M/M activity offensive, and as the manager of a club I wouldn't see the point in alienating half my potential patrons.

The idea that swingers are any more open minded than the rest of the population is a total myth, in my opinion.

[lovinher]

It takes a huge risk to start your own business and I don't blame any owner that does everything legally possible he/she could to make sure the business succeeds. I don't see that as being narrow minded, I see it as an attempt to get as many customers as possible.

So where would the restrictions on play stop and who determines what they are? You could let gay men play at your club but what about other forms of sexual play that not too many people want to see? Unless you let everybody do whatever they want, somebody will call them narrow minded. I agree that swingers are no more open minded than the rest of the world. That would include those that think anything goes.

[prettylady]

I think the lifestyle is just at a point in the evaloution of sexual freedom.
Lets use me for an example.
When it was brought up to me, I was scared, but did my research. We went to a club where I never removed my hand from Dogs arm. I buried my head in his chest when the women only dance was going on. F/F was not my thing and I was freaked out by it. More research, more questions then a meet up. Where I danced and flirted (did not play yet). Then another club, but this time I took part in the ladies only dance. Still in a vanilla context. Then my first swing. YA!!! Then, the idea of well if a woman wanted to touch me maybe I might be ok with it....maybe.
I still have a long way to go before I am 100% comfortable with my place with in the lifestyle. But I am evolving as a person.
The same with the lifestyle. Not that long ago it was a horrible thought to swap wives. Masterbation??? WTF good girls dont do that. Bi sexual relations between women, ah hell no!! Even where we stand on Bi sexual men is changing at a rapid pace.
I say 10-15 years, and the lifestyle will eventually open up more to M/M play.
I am not saying that because I have seen changes in the lifestyle. I am after all still very much a newbie. But I can see what is happening in the world as a whole and I do believe the people with in the lifestyle are more accepting of accepting changes.
If I, a good girl who never masterbated :rollseyes and believed that you only kiss your one true love for the rest of your life can change into a sex craved, fantasy seeking, on again off again bi courious maybe not so much individual. Then why can't we, as a whole, change into a maybe M/M is ok group.
I don't personaly want to see M/M play or have Dog take part in it. But if I get to full fill my fantasies who am I to ask others not to.
**I am not suggesting any of you are saying that M/M play should not take place at all** Just covering my ass.
I am losing my train wreck of a thought here so I will sign off now and hope I got my point across with some effectiveness.
Damn I wish I could express myself as well as you guys do.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[Chicup]

One thing I need to be clear on is the word 'offensive'.

We don't find MM activity offensive, we are not offended.
We are turned off by it though, its a not sexy thing to us.

Seeing a man teabagging another man in a play room would be a turn off for us and we would not be in the mood anymore. Its just 'icky', and there are straight activities that would fall in the same category.

I think most clubs that 'don't allow it' are only making sure its not on the dance floor or the hot tubs, I doubt anyone cares what happens in the private rooms.

[prettylady]

Tea bagging
Thats funny
Your friend,
Prettylady

[mackie44]

CuriousinOregon,

Thanks for your opinion. I think you're one of these truly open-minded people that I was referring to.

Let individuals decide for themselves what they want to do in a swing club without a rule from above that bans one form of homosexual activity but not another.

[mackie44]

Prettylady,

You did just fine. I appreciate your thoughts.

[BorisNatasha]

Originally Posted by good times

The idea that swingers are any more open minded than the rest of the population is a total myth, in my opinion.

QFT. The main reason I don't read this board as much as I used to.

I had this same argument with Spoo and some others over a year ago with much the same result. Basically their desires trump those of the people who would want a more open atmosphere, because the more open atmosphere is 'icky'.

To the OP: you won't change anyone's mind here, move along.

[lovinher]

I suppose there are gay or Bi forums out there somewhere.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by BorisNatasha

I had this same argument with Spoo and some others over a year ago with much the same result. Basically their desires trump those of the people who would want a more open atmosphere, because the more open atmosphere is 'icky'.

Interesting...

Especially since I stated in this thread only what our club rules are and not what my opinion is. Frankly, what I have seen has never bothered me (men making out and dancing together). If they were to go into a room, it wouldn't matter to me one bit. But that doesn't change the general perception and comfort zones of swingers in general.

But the OP was talking about the "industry" of swinging. And as an industry, clubs have rules.

Perhaps a quick try at reading comprehension would do you some good?

Spoomonkey

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by BorisNatasha

QFT. The main reason I don't read this board as much as I used to.

I had this same argument with Spoo and some others over a year ago with much the same result. Basically their desires trump those of the people who would want a more open atmosphere, because the more open atmosphere is 'icky'.

To the OP: you won't change anyone's mind here, move along.

How open would you like there?

Maybe some testicle torture in the foyer?
Golden showers on the lawn?

We all have our ick factor.

[tribbles]

BTW, anyone who thinks they haven't been with a bimale who is in hiding, do what we did. We changed our profile to both bi for awhile to see what we would learn.

Yea, we had been with quite a few bimales and didn't know it. We learned more of why they hide it and we became more open to the idea that bimales are in the lifestyle.

Like with everyone else, we just have to communicate what we don't want and what we do want. If they cross a line, like with anyone else, we have to speak up.

[mackie44]

I don't mind rules being present in a swing club. In fact, the whole of society needs rules. But when the rules in a swing club are designed to promote the bisexual double standard, the rule becomes inconsistent. At that point, it also becomes discriminatory.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by mackie44

But when the rules in a swing club are designed to promote the bisexual double standard, the rule becomes inconsistent.

A double standard by definition IS inconsistent. But my question is - what exactly would the ideal club look like to you? How would "bi-male" activity occur at this club? What would the atmosphere be like?

Spoomonkey