How many people are only into girl/girl?

[arvcpl]

We have been to a number of parties and clubs but are still new and learning. We have been suprised at the number of people that are only into fem/fem play. Maybe we were nieve but we thought swinging was going to be lot about swapping and group sex involving everyone but what we have been seeing is mostly women on women with the guys just watching. Recently we had an experience where my wife had some nasty comments made about her to her face and behind her back because she was not bi enough. We were at a house party and when she wouldn't play with the other women people acted like we did not belong there in the first place. Even some guys made some snide comments. My wife is beautiful and in the beginning we were afraid that guys would always be hitting on her and trying to get her in bed but what is actually happening is guys are ignoring her and women are hitting on her and then people get nasty when she won't play with girls. I thought guys would want her to play with them but instead we get sneared at when she won't play with women. I am not knocking other peoples preferences at all but how common is this? Is there a way to tell if a couple is only interested in girl/girl before spending too much time with them to only be rejected? Are there any venues that are less girl/girl oriented and that heterosexual encounters are the norm? Why is girl/girl only such a big thing? Is it that people are afraid of guys and women are less threatening? I am not a bad looking guy and I am very polite and considerate and I am not agressive towards women at all and it kind of bugs me that women seem to be afraid of me and would rather play with other women. Is it the norm that women play with women for awhile and then when everyone is comfortable with that then the men become involved or is it as it appears and much of swinging is about just women playing with women? I am sorry for so many questions but we are just trying to understand what we need to do and where we fit in. My wife doesn't mind some female contact but she is mostly interested in guys and we want to play with other couples together not just the women.

[good times]

Well, I would like to say that what you have experienced is unusual and not the norm, but I can't honestly do that. While their are a growing number of people getting into swinging and showing up at the clubs that are g/g only, it isn't as bad as it seems. The reason it seems worse than it is, is that in our experience women can and do get away with the type of behavior you mentioned but the men never could. I can remember when we first got into swinging, only about 5 years ago, when the biggest problem you ran into at the clubs was an occasional creepy single guy that couldn't follow the rules. Now days, we have what My wife and I call the, "militant bi-female" problem. The difference is that the creepy single guy is always reprimanded or ejected from the club when he exhibits bad behavior, but the militant bi-females almost never are. The result of this is that their are nights at the clubs when it seems like the lifestyle is made up entirely of rude, crude, militant bi-females. The problem with this is that it gives the majority of straight, and bi women (women that are respectful of others preferences) an undeserved bad reputation to a first time observer, because these few are so obvious and obnoxious it often gives newbies the idea that everyone in swinging is that way, when in fact, it is only a few "bad apples" in the group, and the rest of the people quietly in the background are overshadowed by the actions of those few.

On the up side, this is not the norm, as I said above, the majority of people are respectful and willing to accept others preferences for what they are. As you go to more clubs and get to know more people in the lifestyle you will, no doubt, find a lot more people that are into what you are than it would seem at first glance. You will also find that these folks that seem to be a problem tend to gravitate to certain parties where they can get away with their behavior, and tend to avoid those where they can't or are significantly outnumbered. Their are a couple of house parties that we won't attend in our area just because the types of activities condoned at them do not fit with our preferences.

As far as your question regarding how to tell what a couple is into without wasting a lot of time with them goes, we find the best thing to do is just ask, "what are you in to?". If what the are into doesn't jive with what we are then we can move along. I will admit though that it took us a while to get to the point of just asking people right up front, but once you get comfortable doing that you will find that you waste a lot less time on those that are not compatible with you and you end up meeting a lot more people who are.

[spectraschain]

I will admit though that it took us a while to get to the point of just asking people right up front, but once you get comfortable doing that you will find that you waste a lot less time on those that are not compatible with you and you end up meeting a lot more people who are.

Ask right up front. In person, on-line, wherever. There's no reason to beat around the bush trying to get a "read" if you're on the same page.

We're very accomadating, but there's no girl/girl play aside from (blah, blah, blah, insert profile disclaimer here).

[Tybee Swing]

Hi arvcpl,

It's been our personal experience that house parties are rougher and more crude than other ways to meet people. I think there are more expectations there. I'm sorry that you two got treated so rudely (nasty comments to your faces and behind your backs). Who wants to socialize with people who treat you like that, let alone have sex with them?

You mentioned clubs (plural), so it sounds like you live in an area where there are options. You might want to try other clubs, because each will have a different vibe. The leaders of clubs have different agendas, different ways to get people to socialize - like M/F icebreakers. One example that leads to more heterosexual interaction is a common club mixer like lock and key (men have keys, women have different locks, and you have to interact with everyone of the opposite sex to see who's got your key). That's just an example of what might happen at a club that's more about hetero interaction and less about girl/girl. You might find another club much more to your liking.

Have you tried the personal ads to meet couples that share the same interests? In personal ads, you can find couples that clearly share they are both straight, or the wife is just mildly bi-curious, etc.

Good luck, and let us know how things go.

[arvcpl]

Thank you for the replys everyone. In looking back I guess I was more venting than anything and your responses did provide good information and advice as well as reassuring us that we weren't the ones in the wrong place. We have actually been pretty pleased with the fun we have had since we started and have definately had our share of successes. It is just a little disheartening when we feel that we are doing a good job of being courteous and respectfull and then to get treated badly because my wife won't do what she is not oriented to do. We knew going into it that there would be a lot of bi fem activities but we weren't prepared for the "bi-militants". Quite frankly it is counter productive because my wife doesn't mind the soft touch of a woman under certain circumstances but now she is getting so scared and nervous about this kind of stuff that she is even less interested than before and I don't blame her a bit. The funny part is she has been treated like a queen by the so called dreaded single males so far and it is the females that have put a black mark on some of our outings. Thanks again for your advice and we will take that to heart and just come out and ask what what peoples preferences are and will be more open about ours before push comes to shove.

[WesternSwing]

In our experience what you are observing is not the norm at all. It may be for the group you've been hanging with though. Although female bisexuality is very common in the Lifestyle, it definitely is not a prerequisite for admittance. Most all the bi-women we know can take it or leave it. It's not required to play with her and her husband. Mrs. WS is the same way. It's nice when it happens with the right woman, but it's not the be-all of swinging.

I'd personally say if this is what is going-on in the crowd your seeing, it's time to seek a different crowd that more closely mirrors yourself.

Mr. WS

[The Fuse]

Mr. Fuse and I have encountered this too. I think it's mainly a function of finding the right crowd. My level of interest in women sounds a lot like the OP's wife. Even though our profile says clearly that I'm mainly interested in men, we still get requests from women who don't bother to read. Luckily, we haven't had people be blatantly rude like you did at that party, very early in our adventures...otherwise I could have been soured on swinging.

So, don't fear. There are plenty of couples out there just like you.

[VanHlebar]

OK, this might turn into a long winded response so I apologize ahead of time.

MrsVan and I seem to be running into this alot also. We only have one local club that is reasonably close to us, then we have about 4-5 others that are within an hour or so drive. At our local club over the past few months it appears that there are many more couples that are only interested in F/F play. Now, MrsVan doesn't mind playing with the ladies if their is an attraction between them both, but her primary preference is men. Add to that that she really doesn't like to play if I am not going to get to play either, unless I have specifically told her ahead of time and even then, she doesn't have the same fun if you will that she seems to have when we both are playing.

I have read on this board over the past year or so that there does seem to be a general increase in this kind of swinging and I don't know why it is or even have anything near a solution. For us, we have relied mainly on profile sites like Swing Lifestyle and Swappernet. The issue with that we have had with the sites is that it is very hard to setup and actual meet with other couples. To address this, we still goto our local club and we are making an effort to use it as our location of meeting new couples. This way if they pull a no-show, or if things don't click, we don't waste one of our few nights out that we get.

All I can say is just stay patient, it will happen eventually and when it does and when you finally meet that couple that you click with, it will be worth it in the end.

-Van

[Tia Vampire]

I didn't read this thread before i posted mine, but i feel your concern. i'm the female half of the couple and have been hit on alot by the women at the parties. I often find myself asking myself, do any of the guys find me to be attractive? It's not that the guys don't find me attractive, the girl just beat them to the draw. The only guy that come up to me are the single guys and we don't play with them. Sometime I want us to change our rules. I want to be able to go off with a single guy on my own and my fiance to be able to get with a girl if he can find one. Not that he is a bad looking guy, but alot of the girls are looking for other girl. If you do things as a couple, why are the guys sitting around and the ladies are up in the rooms? just does not make sense to me. There is so much more i want to say on this subject, but i tend to sometime say too much and get myself into trouble. So i'll stop here and again i feel your concern.

[Sweet_Candy]

Not sure how it is where y'all are but GOG play is the prevalent form of play in the Houston area. We've added this line to our profile to ward off these types. "If you are looking to kiss, lick or taste Candy and you're female pass us by." We're a straight couple and have been disappointed with how few men actually play. The irony is it doesn’t matter if it’s a vanilla club or LS club . . . GOG play is going on at both venues. But heaven forbid two men get up and play with each other. The double standard leaves us wondering what happen to fair play or better yet all play?

[des1re06]

A LS club owner explained to me that the guys sit back and let the girls do the work for them. His words, not mine.

I'm much more responsive to an assertive male than pushy female, even though I am bi (dominant bi). Just ask me to dance or talk. "Want to step out for some air" is the easiest of all. How hard is that?

I am definately NOT into only GOG.

Mrs. D

[DBL D]

Women should have the right to say no to a lady as well as a man, don't you think? Just because someone is willing or beautiful doesn't necessarily mean that there is the kind of attraction that a lot of ladies look for...just as when they looking at the mens.

I'd look for another club.

Male D

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by des1re06

A LS club owner explained to me that the guys sit back and let the girls do the work for them. His words, not mine.

I'm much more responsive to an assertive male than pushy female, even though I am bi (dominant bi). Just ask me to dance or talk. "Want to step out for some air" is the easiest of all. How hard is that?

I totally agree with you. We've been in situations where women were hitting on me/us, but we couldn't even tell who they were there with. (I like to know this before we get too far, because I'm the one that's gonna have to play with the unidentified male if it goes that way.) A lot of the time, the guy is sitting back in the corner, waiting for his woman to bring somebody back for them. Once we figured this out, we don't mess with that!

[sexychoclit]

My preference is FF, however I will play with the male as long as I am attracted to him. If not there may be oral, etc. involved, however I reserve the right to not participate in intercourse with a man that I am not attracted to.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

My preference is FF, however I will play with the male as long as I am attracted to him. If not there may be oral, etc. involved, however I reserve the right to not participate in intercourse with a man that I am not attracted to.

This is interesting. While I enjoy FF if there is an attraction, it's not quite my preference. I'm first looking to be attracted to the male. However, for us, in party/club settings we've often found the wife is attractive and interested in us both, the husband is interested in me, but he's unattractive to me (it ain't happening). If this is the case, in the past we sometimes ended up playing somewhat as you described, FF play with going back to our own husbands for intercourse. That didn't seem to work out well for us though, because the other husband's primary goal was to get with another woman (understandably), and awkward situations arise where I have to say "no" to advances, even after FF and soft swing was agreed on. So now, we just avoid playing at all with couples where the F is interested (and we both would be interested in her), but I just am not interested in the guy.

Last night, we were out of state at a great club we'd never been to before (great experience). On the way home, my husband pointed out to me that there were some "reverse" couples there, where the men were guys I'd be attracted to, but he was completely not attracted to the woman. I guess this lopsided attraction problem is the most common issue in the lifestyle!

About your quote, above....reserving the right to not have intercourse with someone you're not attracted to....I can't imagine it being any other way.