One for the ladies. Do you lose respect if your man plays with a man?

[SuAndBud]

Where was the BS?

I asked what the ladies ideas and thoughts on the subject was.

I ain't hiding the fact I "been thinking about blowing the guy". So where's the BS?

Explain your arguments more clearly or neglect to comment would seem best.

[good times]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

I deliberately sought negative responses in order to substantiate and confirm my own negative thoughts on the matter, but you guys have taken it off the scale.

Wouldn't that be saying you were trying to provoke negative thoughts on the matter? In that case it would seem to be by definition a provocative question?

[lovinher]

Can't help myself.
So then, what are your negative thoughts?
I must be missing something.
Saw your responses to some of the other posts. I think your supposed to be at least 18 years old to post here.

[SuAndBud]

Never sought to "provoke" anything. Wanted to ellicit responses is all. For and against.

This is like being in the Stepford Wives, though.

Where are some of you coming from?

What a horrible clique you've chosen to belong to.

Thank god I wasn't your Jewish neighbour in 1941.

The board's a great idea, but the clique here sucks. You're so up each other you can't (no, daren't) tollerate anyone who isn't a brown-nose like yourselves, nor their ideas and thoughts.

Such a sad waste of a unique opportunity to expand our lifestyle.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

Never sought to "provoke" anything. Wanted to ellicit responses is all. For and against.

This is like being in the Stepford Wives, though.

Where are some of you coming from?

What a horrible clique you've chosen to belong to.

Thank god I wasn't your Jewish neighbour in 1941.

The board's a great idea, but the clique here sucks. You're so up each other you can't (no, daren't) tollerate anyone who isn't a brown-nose like yourselves, nor their ideas and thoughts.

Such a sad waste of a unique opportunity to expand our lifestyle.

Oh goodness.

Horrible clique? What clique. Last time I checked I wasn't part of a clique here. I think you need to examine what you were asking for.

You wanted women to tell you that they would be turned off by MM sex so you could feel justified in having negative thoughts about MM sex even though you wanted to do it.

But you didn't say that, you just wanted them to post their negative thoughts.

That my friend was silly. I don't have a clue what your motivation was really because it makes very little sense.

I'd also like to figure out who I'm brown nosing. I don't think there is a long time member of this board I haven't disagreed with at some point over the years. I've not had sex with any of them, nor tried to, so I don't see where you come to this conclusion either.

I think someone wants to be the victim without looking at what they were posting or asking. My guess is its a habbit for you due to this gem...

Thank god I wasn't your Jewish neighbour in 1941.

Allow me to introduce you to Godwins Law.

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is a mainstay of Internet culture, an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."[1]

Godwin's Law

You have compared people posting things you don't like on the Swingersboard with being turned in by neighbours and sent to the death camps. I'd like you to think about how SILLY that was as well.

[ohash01]

Wow. This post somehow turned into a trainwreck. On another non-swinging forum I'm on they have a smiley of a trainwreck - Julie, can we work on getting one?

I'm sorry SuandBud, that you didn't get the answers you WANTED. This is the problem with asking a whole lot of people of varying walks of life a question. There is NO guarentee that your thoughts/feeling will be justified. There's a better chance, actually, that every single person will disagree with you. We are an open-minded bunch, and you got replies from some open-minded women who said "Sure! Go ahead! Try it!" I bet right now you're thinking that we're all that little horned man on your shoulder. Sorry if you wanted us to be the angel on the other shoulder.

And I don't say this often, but I agree with Chicup - there isn't a clique here, nor is anyone sticking their nose up anyone else's ass. In every instance that I have seen, people are welcomed here unless it's obvious that they are complete trolls. And I don't kiss ANYONE'S ass. Not in my day to day life and not here. I will flirt occassionally, but that's my nature.

Here, re-iterated again, even if I'm a Stepford Wife is my response to your original queston:

NO. I would NOT lose respect for my man if he decided he wanted to experience MM play. I DOUBT he ever would, but if he chose to, that's okay by me. And it'd actually make me feel a little better, since even though he was nervous about it, he allowed me to explore the side of me that enjoys women. I appreciate him for that and there's no way to "payback" someone who helps you figure out who you are.

[Tybee Swing]

Hi Bud,

I really understand your concerns and why you'd be asking these questions. It's a BIG step, going in a direction you've never gone before (if you go there). As with anything in life, changes and new directions can have repercussions. Male bi activity isn't as readily accepted as female bi activity often is. You're being thoughtful about it all.

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

In common with many guy's I've spoken to over the years (usually in light, tongue-in-cheek, fashion), I've heard that guys give better BJ's much in the same way that many ladies insist that girls perform the best cunnilingus. Each sex knowing instinctively where the "rite-spots" are, when to apply pressure and when to ease off etc.

I firmly believe I would be more comfortable with my skills with and correct responses to the needs of a dick than a pussy.

The first time I was with a woman, I was single and had a FMF with a couple. With no experience whatsoever (I'd never even kissed a woman "that way" before), I just followed my instincts. As I went along with touching, oral, etc., I was envisioning the way I like receiving it, and doing it that way. I watched for cues from her, to see what was working best (we're all wired differently as individuals). It worked out well.

Personally, the "girls know how to do girls better" theory hasn't proven true for me. While it's been nice receiving during girl-girl play, it's never been as good as the way my husband does me. Maybe I haven't been with enough women yet.

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

We've all agreed we want to meet up next month for a weekend. Sex is most deffinately on the menu with the girls even discussing what lingerie to wear etc.

Trouble is, both girls keep teasing us guys that if we want the girls to play orally together, then us boys should do likewise.

We're convinced it's just tongue-in-cheek nervous banter as neither girl has experienced another girl before, although both are eager to explore this aspect of our relationship.
...
The one thing that dampens my ardour is that if the girls are (as I suspect) teasing &/or covering their own embarassment at having agreed they want to perform orally with each other, will the girls be shocked, disappointed or whatever if me and J do this in their presence?
...
In spite of my own clouded observations, will we be considered as closet gays?

I understand your fears in the last three statements, above. Mr. Tybee and I were married before I told him I had bi thoughts and a past bi experience. I was concerned about the same things you are. Yes, it's a common male fantasy (bi wife), but the reality is often different. My husband had said "yuck" when something like that was on TV, etc. He even fast-forwarded through those scenes when we watched porn. So, it took real guts for me to tell him. I had a feeling that it would open doors of honesty, deeper intimacy, and sharing between us if I told him (I was right). He was kind of stunned at first, for a few moments. Then, he started asking lots of questions and getting very turned-on about the idea of me being bi. I'd only had that one experience (described above), but I told him it was fun, mostly because it was so different from being with a man. At first he seemed to think I "needed" that, and he wanted me to be free to have that kind of sex. The fact is, I didn't need it, I could easily go the whole rest of my life without it, but I was just sharing with him. Over time, he came to understand much better what it is for me. It's fun, I enjoy it with another woman who's into it, but I enjoy it with him, as part of our swinging experience sometimes. I'm not a closet lesbian, I'm not looking to have a deep relationship with a woman. It's just sex, something we enjoy together sometimes (he enjoys watching, or being part of FFM). Like me, you may only enjoy the fellatio MM experience with Su there, as part of your swinging experience.

(Quick side note: Mr. Tybee had said "ick" and fast-forwarded FF scenes because he was conditioned that way by his ex-wife. It was a knee-jerk reaction for him. I learned this after we opened up the talking.)

It took real conversations between us for him to truly understand where I'm at with this. You need to have real conversations with Su, too. Sit down in a quiet moment together (the sooner the better), and ask her to share her real, deep feelings about the thought of you and your friend together. Ask her point-blank if the thought turns her on. Talk about it in-depth. Tell her that you're concerned that she might think less of you, etc. Let her respond to your concerns.

We don't know Su like you know her. Is she open-minded and adventurous? It's very possible that she views the thought of you being oral with your friend in the same way she views herself being with a woman for the first time...like a new adventure, and very exciting. She will be there with you. Are you two the kind of couple that get very turned on seeing each other engaging in sexual activities with others? I have a feeling that because she's been "teasing" you about wanting you two guys to do it if the girls do it, it's her light way of saying, "I really want to see you with him, it's very hot to me." Su is making this conversation much easier for you by being the one who brought up this MM fantasy in the first place.

Personally, I would be very turned-on by my husband being oral with another guy. I've even told him so. Not to pressure him at all, but just to let him know that if at some point he actually wanted to try that, or we found ourselves in a sexual moment with somebody and the opportunity was there, it was a green light for me if he wanted to proceed. He is straight, but he's thought about it since our conversation. It's very common for many men to have that fantasy about fellatio.

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

For some reason I've managed to mentally compartmentalise such an act with him as not being "gay" and not even being "bi". Maybe cuz I can't imagine doing it to any other guy but him.

A person's sexual interests can be very multi-faceted and diverse, regardless of what label one puts on himself. I call myself "bi" just for the sake of convenience. But in reality, I don't feel that I'm gay/lesbian or even really "bi", I just feel sexual and go with it. I liked that quote earlier in this thread...something along the lines of "not heterosexual, not bisexual, just sexual". That's how I feel about the times I participate in same-sex play, and even swinging in general. I feel all-woman, with a very strong preference for men (especially my man). I don't feel technically bi, although I use the term because of the level of FF activity I can enjoy. I guess I just feel comfortable being what I am, and I'm very fortunate to have a loving spouse who is so accepting.

I think that many wives in swinging are naturally open-minded and very curious or interested in the idea of seeing their manly-man engaging in oral with another man. They won't think any less of him as a man, than you men think of your very feminine wives being with another woman. But, we're all individuals, so you really have to have a heart-to-heart with Su and learn how she truly feels. I have a feeling you'll be put at ease with what you hear from her.

Best wishes to you.

[Spoomonkey]

Well - I kind of agree with Ohash that we need a trainwreck smilie - but I have seen worse around here. Chicup's pointing out Godwin's Law sort of says it best... I am kind of surprised, reading over the thread that you went there so quick. I'm not quite sure I see disagreement as a perfect parallel to ethnic atrocities. It does sort of feel like you had that one in your hip pocket ready to toss on the table...

I'll answer the question for us (which will be more of the same since it is kind of a normal line of thought). But first I wanted to address this:

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

I've heard that guys give better BJ's much in the same way that many ladies insist that girls perform the best cunnilingus. Each sex knowing instinctively where the "rite-spots" are, when to apply pressure and when to ease off etc.

I can't imagine how getting a blow job from me would be better than receiving one from a woman - unless you have a thing for crying and gagging men. And I can't imagine how it would be erotic for me to have my twig-n-berries snoggled by someone with five o'clock shadow and a "high and tight" hair cut... Hell - just writing that means I probably won't be able to get wood now for a day or two...

But...

I think Mrs Spoo would loose respect for me if I failed to be true to myself. If I lived my life afraid to communicate with her what I desire and want - what my fantasies are - what is on my "Before I Die" to-do list. We want each other to experience as much of life as we can - regardless of what that is (and to be honest, most of the crazy things on my to-do list have nothing at all to do with sex). It is part of the beauty of marriage - completely exploring, loving and accepting every facet of your soul mate!

Resume trainwreck...

Spoomonkey

[clutch]

Originally Posted by ohash01

Ask her/them if they were serious? And if they weren't, would they mind? That's definately up to all four of you.

You're not a closeted gay man. I, personally, like the saying "I am not heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual...I am simply sexual". Do what feels right.

I believe OHASH 01 is spot on.

1. To reiterate ohash, after a while, labels are just labels. They really only have the weight that we give them.

2. I recommend to anyone the movie "Kinsey." Out of his [Kinsey's] research, he statistcally determined that a person's sexuality falls on a bell curve between hetero and same sex, and the point can shift up and down at any given point of a person's life. So, if one is in a segment of life where there down at the hetero end, it's okay, and if one swings more into the same sex end, that's pretty normal too. (I bring this up, because I just recently saw the movie for the first time, and it made a lot of things make a lot more sense.) Now, there are people who are pegged out at one end of the other for whatever reason (genetics?), but the majority of people are more in the middle with a floating point.

3. Regarding pleasing your women, #1, it doesn't hurt anything to try responding to their bequest. You may enjoy it; you may not. They may enjoy it or they may not. But either way, on the front end, try to laugh and have fun with it. After all, you are with friends that you like (and/or maybe love--at least at some level). So if you love and trust them, push into it and see what happens. #2 It definitely doesn't mean your coming out of any closet; in fact, only a coward is afraid to experiment with something that's not harmful. (I wouldn't try an eval kneival motorcycle stunt but just touching another human is pretty innocuous) .

And, even now when we "roll around" with our couple friends, after we've been apart for a while, we do it orgy style--it might start out with a group massage with lots of massage oil. I really recommend this with the caveat that if you're indoors, you use a lot of plastic tarp to protect the floor and pillows, and have the tarp lead to the shower so you don't drip.... stuff.... on the way to cleaning up. (In the summer, just find a private place near a hose). That, plus have way too much oil so you don't run out.

I digress... we actually just got back home from our friends and I'm reminiscing a little. The point being, there's a lot of touching all the way round that goes on with this little exercise. And it's extremely enjoyable, and very, very liquid.....--the operational question being, "Lines? What lines?"

If someone responds with "Eeeeewwwww," to them I say, "It's only kinky the first time."

Also, responding to your subsequent posts, what do you mean "clique?" This site is viewed by people from all over the world. I have never personally (at least knowingly) met a single other board member. (Chances are I might have bumped into some here or there unknowingly, no pun intended).

As many people as are on this site, you'll find that many opinions. It just so happens that since we all enjoy the lifestyle, that we may have just somehow come to some of the same conclusisons via our experiences.

My favorite line from a song.... "There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys, there's only you and me, and we just disagree."

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Fish on!!!! ............Now I will explain my comment.

There was a user account around here where the M.O. was to stir the pot a little and when conversation turned to challenge this particular user(s) they would get all condescending and haughty, disappear for a while and then come back all sweet and nice only to repeat the cycle. After a cycle or two, you apear , right in the heat of the moment, taking their side (in that particular argument). Funny thing was, you have the same writing style and gramar, using it all in that wierd thrid person(ish) sort of way that you do. After that particular shit storm, they get bitch slapped by a pro and the both of you disappear and stop posting...............strangely enough, your back, the writing is the same, topics are of the same inflamatory nature and when I throw out a little bait you swallow it, hook line and sinker. Jews? 1941? Come on you can do better than that........

BTW, none of your posts are remotely reminiscent of being a limey, of course you could be there, but not from there. Odd though, when you click your profile thru to Swing Lifestyle it comes up within 100 miles of Truro, Nova Scotia and Charlottetown, Prince Edwards Island-- alot closer to two jersey than the shires of UK, eh?

In short, I'm saying you're that same 'ol account stirring shit again and I'm calling you on it. Of course I could be wrong, but we'll cross that bridge if we get there.

With that, I'll leave you with a bit 'o black humor (since you brought up the Nazis and all).................


"SOMTING WONG IN BERWIN"






ETA: this isn't a jab at any one here racially, how they speak or otherwise, simply to illustrate my point concerning the O.P.

[Chicup]

I don't think it was a troll post at all Angedky.

I think someone is just a 'wee' bit oversensative. Its common in the bi-male threads so why not in a thread about male bisexual activity even when the men involved are "not" bi.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Fair enough, I can openly admit I am wrong and apologize, if needed.

[Irishsakura]

Here is my two cents.....
If I had a husband or boyfriend that wanted to play with another guy, I'm afraid I would be turned off. Now this is only my taste and opinion but I see it as if he were losing his masculinity. I guess it's because I enjoy being a feminine counterpart whither it be submissive or dominant. But I can't help but view women as the only ones who can get away with sexual diversion. Were so much more beautiful and alluring. Seeing my man being submissive towards another would lose my attraction to him as a man. I know what I have said is chauvinistic and maybe I view women a little too highly. I know that in order for me to feel feminine at times I need my man to be heterosexual. Does this make sense? I know this is a touchy subject but I think you should be very careful of what you do if there is any doubt or hesitation in going further.

[sexcupid]

I'll pipe in here. First of all, the girls joking with you (ie: you wanna watch us do it, so we wanna see you guy do it) reminds me of the scene in American Pie where the 2 girls they want to see make out tell the 2 guy to kiss before they will.

My opinion? I think it would be interesting to watch that (the BF being on the giving or receiving end of a BJ). Would I get insanely turned on by it? Don't know, but again, I still think it would be interesting to watch it.

Would it make me insecure? Think he was "less manly"? No and No.

It is much more socially acceptable and even encouraged for FF play. Give the men their shot at it too if it's something they want to try. If it's something you are obsessing over (in a good way apparently ), then go for it. What if the second he has his lips wrapped around you and you don't like it? Then stop. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Jeez, one of the hottest stories I ever read on a newsgroup involved a husband setting up a gang bang for his wife to take place like a "break in" to their home. He was tied to a chair and forced to watch the wife get used by a group of guys. One of them notices him watching so intently and just stood there giving the guy a running commentary (ie: look how much she likes that, blah blah blah), and then that guy made him clean her come off of his dick. Of course in the story, the wife seeing this (and I believe at one point one of the guys goes down on the husband while he's restrained) gets really turned on.

Ok, there I go rambling again. Sorry. :surrender

Maria

[GerdOEvert]

My experience.

I have wondered what the reaction of my mate would be, and when we were in the Life Style, six or eight times I fooled around with men. But no man has ever climaxed while I had his cock between my lips. I wish he had. I am still curious about the taste of a real load of cum. It would be sexy.

If it were not for the AIDS scare, it would be sexy to be reamed too, and to be filled with the creme of another man. But the AIDS risk makes that too great.

Twenty five years ago, I was in analysis with a Psychiatrist, and we discussed bisexual longinigs, and he pointed out, as in a post above, that all of us are more or less bi sexual, both men and women. It also seems to me that if men get turned on by women on women play, they should not be ashamed or unwilling to try some man on man sex.

When I read an erotic story about a guy trying homosexual portions of the sexual repetoire, I enjoy reading them. There are not nearly as many written as there are about women's bi experiences.

Eileen was supportive, curious and encouraging with all the adventures, but perhaps she is more understanding than most because she has found her own bi-sexual orientation in college.

Otto & Eileen