The "bi" subject

[Mr. Truelove]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Almost NO ONE (Except that spoo monkey dude, of course) is PURELY Hetero or PURELY Homo.

Where is the study that this information came from. Or is it something you just made up?

[Annaiis]

Originally Posted by Chicup

What does interest me in this subject, is while on this board there are several women who talk about how much they would be turned on by MM activity, yet I've yet to meet any swinging who have said such a thing. They have all said the opposite really, and male bi-sexuality is something that they state is a turn off, much like the woman in the above story.

So which is it? If you go by the internet, it seems that its a majority that likes it, if I go by what I see in person, its the opposite. Are people just more honest here? Does the board just have a skewed sample?

You may not have met a female swinger who was turned on by MM activity, but I have ... me!!

I've been a swinger for over 5 years, starting out as a single female, becoming a couple for a while, becoming a single female again for a short time, becoming a triad for a while, stopping swinging for a while, and now just starting to swing again as a couple. About 4 years ago, I was enjoying a threesome evening with two men: a male FWB and the male half of a couple I was swinging with who's wife also played with my FWB ... at one point in the evening (after they'd serviced me to the point of total satiation), I returned from the washroom to find the two men in a 69 position, enjoying each other in mutual fellatio ... I found it incredibly erotic and arousing and since I was truly too tired to contribute, I happily laid back and watched them play with each other.

I think taking any ONE group and considering their opinion to be THE ONLY opinion is naive. The board is only one group, and YES, it's opinion is skewed - it can't help but not be ... dissenting views are not encouraged, and those who agree with the "group" line are applauded and encouraged to speak up - but that doesn't mean the board (as a group) doesn't have an opinion worth having ... it does, of course, and I think the board is full of very intelligent, helpful people .. but I STILL think it'd be naive to think the board doesn't represent a skewed sample. (Just as a "for example" as to why the sample is skewed, the majority of posts on the swingers board come from an extreme minority of members - the vocal minority, if you will )

Just MY opinion

[Pepper & Drew]

Originally Posted by Chicup

So which is it? If you go by the internet, it seems that its a majority that likes it, if I go by what I see in person, its the opposite. Are people just more honest here? Does the board just have a skewed sample?

I think because of the anonmity factor, people are a little more honest here than they are in person. I don't think this board is a skewed sample.

Pepper

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

I think because of the anonmity factor, people are a little more honest here than they are in person. I don't think this board is a skewed sample.

Pepper

I could understand men who dont' want to seem bi, but why would women hide it as a fantasy?

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by good times

This club also highlights another thing that I find interesting, and that is how many people will not attend because they allow gays at the swinger’s party. The local swinger community is fairly tight nit. Their are three clubs in town and most all the regulars know each other. I would say about half of the club regulars will not attend the parties at the club where gays are allowed and freely admit that is the reason why they won't. Based on that I would suspect that a lot of people who come here will read these threads, if for no other reason than to find out if this activity will be expected of them if they pursue the lifestyle.

When you consider that some people are so repulsed by male bisexuality that they don't want to see it then you can then infer that they may also be reading threads regarding male bisexuality not just to see if it's something they will be expected to participate in but also to find out if it's such a regular occurance that they will not be able to avoid having to see it.

Originally Posted by chicup

So which is it? If you go by the internet, it seems that its a majority that likes it, if I go by what I see in person, its the opposite. Are people just more honest here? Does the board just have a skewed sample?

Probably and probably. I've found over and over again that this board tends to have a skewed sample of swingers in many ways. The most noticable way is that the typical swingers here are those that focus beyond just sex. While some here aren't necessarily into friendship MOST aren't into just going out and screwing with no regards to who, just racking up numbers and notches as they go. That's just one example of how the sample of swingers on this site is different than a true cross-section of swingers... but I do also tend to think you are right that people are more honest here... and not because the people are more honest here but because we are on a message board and each have some level of anonymity, so a woman can say "yes I'm turned on by that" without fear of having someone give her a dirty look. Too often in real life are reactions are based on what we think others expect us to do... therefore you may actually have a woman who is completely turned on by male bisexuality and have a fantasy of seeing it... then when that really happens in a club situation as was posted earlier she may freak out because it's what is expected.

Originally Posted by chicup

I could understand men who dont' want to seem bi, but why would women hide it as a fantasy?

Because they don't want to be judged for their fantasies... because their male partner has made it absouletely clear that he would never consider such a thing so don't bring it up, because their swinger friends have over and over again had a negative response when such topics have been brought up... that it's easier to go with the flow than to be honest about an innocent fantasy.

And to clarify, my completely straight boyfriend KNOWS that one of my fantasies is to see two guys together... for that matter so do any of my friends who know me well enough to know that I have a history as a swinger and a proclivity towards "untraditional" sexual interests.

[Annaiis]

Originally Posted by chicup

I could understand men who dont' want to seem bi, but why would women hide it as a fantasy?

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

... Because they don't want to be judged for their fantasies... because their male partner has made it absouletely clear that he would never consider such a thing so don't bring it up, because their swinger friends have over and over again had a negative response when such topics have been brought up... that it's easier to go with the flow than to be honest about an innocent fantasy.

Dito to Julie's reply.

And the opposite of why men don't want to seem bi, I believe, is why more women than are actually bi DO want to appear bi (or bi-curious) .... because men LIKE their women to have bi-fem fantasies ... because so many men have told their female partners that they'd find it hot if their woman got it on with another woman ... that their swinger friends seem to all be into the girl-on-girl thing .... and that it's easier to go with the flow than to be honest about what their real fantasies are.

[reed&diana]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I would not want to give them the wrong impression that male bi activity is the norm for swinging and scare them off from what could be a great experiance for them.

That is the line that got my attention. The fact the only bi males are singled out to be scary, not bi females. We do go to a club and to be honest we haven't had any problems with "bi furious" woman or men. That's not to say that it doesn't happen. If you are getting unwanted advances from someone in your club and security doesn't do anything about it, maybe you need to find a new club. They are not doing their job.

As far as Bi males go, look at the number of threads on this board and the number of threads about bi males. Probably less than 5% and those have many posts from straight males explaining why it is it is not for them. I can't understand why any newbies would read this board and come away with the idea that bi males are the norm.

I believe that most start out checking out the sites like Swing Lifestyle. They don't see bi males as the norm because there are very few bi males listed on profiles because of the perceived scariness. To many, a male listing themselves as bi or bi curious automatically means they are infected or they can't keep their hands (mouth) off of someone.

This has gone way too long a probably a little incoherent, it is late. Maybe some come into swinging because of the posibility of meeting bi males.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by reed&diana

That is the line that got my attention. The fact the only bi males are singled out to be scary, not bi females.

I don't think scary is the right word... It's more about what is a reality and what is not. Why are bi females not singled out or said to potentially scare newbies? Because in reality bisexual females in the lifestyle IS the norm. Whereas bisexual males is NOT the norm. Therefore when someone is looking into this lifestyle and reading through various threads trying to figure out what they can expect, we want them to see the true side of what they can expect.

Is it right that what they are presented with is bi females is normal and bi-males is not? Not in my opinion. IMO the truth they should be being presented is that whatever you want to do is normal and accepted. Personally, I think male bisexuality should be just as openly accepted as female bisexuality and perhaps if more people were honest about their desires and feelings it might be more widely accepted.

What we should be presenting is - these are ALL the various ways that different people swing and YOU (the individual) choose how you want to do it. But that's just not swinger reality. In swinger reality, female bisexuality is not only normal and accepted but too often expected.... and the double standard exists that male bisexuality is not normal, or expected and very rarely is accepted.

[WesternSwing]

We have played with several couples in which the male was bi, and knowing I'm not the male never made any advances on me. In fact, we played with one such couple recently that we met at a party and only found out after the fact that he is bi when reading their profile a couple of days later.

If I could sum it up in one statement to newbies it would be:

There are bisexual males in the Lifestyle, however they are not the majority in an sense, and like many bi-women most are very polite and will not cross your boundries if you are not into that. If you are not bi - being male or female - and someone else who is bi blantantly and without caring crosses your boundries, then they are not the person or couple to play with. Bi-male, bi-female, it's all the same when it comes to playing and what your boundries are, and they should always be respected just as you should respect others boundries.

Mr. WS

[Dooode]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I don't think scary is the right word... It's more about what is a reality and what is not.

The reality is that male bisexuality has different acceptance levels geologically. In some states, being "out" could get you killed. At the very least, even in other more liberal states or cities, a bisexual couple could find themselves being very lonely. A bicouple being "out" in Las Vegas can do very well, whereas in the Bible Belt they'd be in hiding.

Florida has the highest acceptance level of male bisexuality and the highest concentration of bisexual couples. So much so as a matter of fact, that a European-style swing club can exist in Ft Lauderdale that caters exclusively to bisexual couples and select bi singles. It's the only one I know of in the United States. A Central Florida swing club I've been to has a Bisexual Night. Tampa/St Pete has no swing club that is more accepting so numbers of bi couples meet at house parties.

But it is not the swing norm by far, even for Florida. Just more accepting.

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Is it right that what they are presented with is bi females is normal and bi-males is not? Not in my opinion. IMO the truth they should be being presented is that whatever you want to do is normal and accepted. Personally, I think male bisexuality should be just as openly accepted as female bisexuality and perhaps if more people were honest about their desires and feelings it might be more widely accepted.

"Honest about desires and feelings" is a big issue. You can't get a lot of guys to admit to admiring a set of six-pack abs or healthy gluts let alone communicate any curiosities to their wives. But it's not a swing issue. It's a sociological one that bleeds into the swing scene. Bisexuality for males just not known or understood in society in general, whereas gays are, and so the male bisexual is often associated with "being gay".

Oh god. If I got a nickel for every time I heard "I'm not gay or anything, but ... " I could retire and own my own island.

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

What we should be presenting is - these are ALL the various ways that different people swing and YOU (the individual) choose how you want to do it. But that's just not swinger reality. In swinger reality, female bisexuality is not only normal and accepted but too often expected.... and the double standard exists that male bisexuality is not normal, or expected and very rarely is accepted.

Yup.

It's possible to find and satisfy any interest in the swinging lifestyle. It may not be mainstream, and you might have to dig, but it's possible.

[Rockme]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that we are talking about how “normal” or “abnormal” bi sexual men are on a swingers board?! All this talk about not wanting to give new people the wrong idea when they come to the board. We are arguing a subcategory of a socially unexpected topic on a board dedicated to swinging, which is a socially unaccepted topic in its self!
Everyone needs to take a breath and enjoy life.

[good times]

Originally Posted by Rockme

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that we are talking about how “normal” or “abnormal” bi sexual men are on a swingers board?! All this talk about not wanting to give new people the wrong idea when they come to the board. We are arguing a subcategory of a socially unexpected topic on a board dedicated to swinging, which is a socially unaccepted topic in its self!
Everyone needs to take a breath and enjoy life.

Maybe you are, what is so ironic about it? Someone (in this case you) comes to a discussion forum and asks an interesting question or makes some provacative comments, then we all proceed to discuss it. We are discussing this subject based on its relationship to swinging, so no, I don't see the irony in it, I can accept it if it is only me that doesn't see it though.

[reed&diana]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

If I could sum it up in one statement to newbies it would be:

There are bisexual males in the Lifestyle, however they are not the majority in an sense, and like many bi-women most are very polite and will not cross your boundries if you are not into that. If you are not bi - being male or female - and someone else who is bi blantantly and without caring crosses your boundries, then they are not the person or couple to play with. Bi-male, bi-female, it's all the same when it comes to playing and what your boundries are, and they should always be respected just as you should respect others boundries.

Mr. WS

That is the best explanation that I've seen so far. It all boils down to "if you don't like it, don't do it"' If you don't want anal, don't do it. If you don't like watersports, don"t do it. If there is anything that you don't like, don't do it. It just seems that bi males are the pariah of the lifestyle.

[Rockme]

Originally Posted by good times

Maybe you are, what is so ironic about it? Someone (in this case you) comes to a discussion forum and asks an interesting question or makes some provacative comments, then we all proceed to discuss it. We are discussing this subject based on its relationship to swinging, so no, I don't see the irony in it, I can accept it if it is only me that doesn't see it though.

Lighten up!! I could say the sky is blue and you would be ready to jump me!! I get the fact that you don’t like my post, me or anything else I may say. To be honest, I don’t care! My post was not a call to arms for all bi men to pickup and go to war against straight men. As I have said before 99% of my play is with women! This thread can and will go on without me. Surrender

[Thrax]

I just took a peek out the window and noticed the sky is a light gray right now.

Thrax