The "bi" subject

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by reed&diana

Whoa, just reading through this thread and this hit me like a ball bat. To me that says a lot about Chicup's attitude. If you have no desire for bi sex, that's fine, but why call bi males scary? Why are they any more scary to straight people than bi females. Bi males can respect boundries jsut as straight people. The chances of a bi male tieing you to the bed and having their way with you are very slim. My wife is bi but to my knowledge, she has not forced a straight woman to eat her.

No one is worried about being forced to do bi things. Its a simple belief that if a new swinger couple with a straight male were to think that male bisexuality was the norm in swinging, they may abandon swinging as 'not for them.' I'm sure there have been straight women who have done the same thing since at least some female bisexuality is the norm.

[good times]

Originally Posted by reed&diana

My wife is bi but to my knowledge, she has not forced a straight woman to eat her.

So, have you ever been to an on-premise swing club? I recommend you go to one and have your wife go as a straight female. Look at all the bi-females through the eyes of a straight woman and chances are you won't be able to make the above statement in the future. First, I will say that most, in fact the majority of bi-women are very respectful of straight women. Unfortunately, a small minority of bi-women are extremely scary to newbie straight women. Since this is a thread about labels I don't think it is inappropriate to say that we call them the "bi-furious" or "militant bi". These bi-women evidently believe that inside every woman there is a bi-women just waiting to be let out. They are more pushy and unresponsive to the desires of the straight woman who is their target, than the worst misbehaving single male in the lifestyle. And yes, they will often do things to a straight woman that is unwanted. Here is an example, this happened to my wife a couple of years ago. She was standing in the bar of an on-premise club talking to a friend. One of the local militant bi-women who was always pestering her to try bi-play, dropped to her knees, grabbed my wife, and started licking her pussy. My wife immediately punched her in the top of her head as a reflex reaction. Since then, any bi-woman that doesn't seem to be taking the hint from my wife will usually hear this story from other club regulars in the area, even after hearing that story, just a couple of weeks ago, a bi-woman tried sucking my wifes breast in the hot tub and actually bit her nipple pretty bad when my wife pulled away. Sad thing is, we see other straight women being hounded to "just give bi a try", often enough to say that it is a problem.

It is all nice for us to think that a newbie won't be gullible enough to think that, "you have to be bi to swing" when coming to the board for information about swinging. But I can still remember when we first started checking out swinging. We had no idea whatsoever what swinging was about, and I will admit for quite some time we thought that the woman had to be bi to swing. Lucky for us, we found this board and by reading everyones posts here, the truth rose to the top.

[EvilMJ]

Good times is 100% correct about some of the Bi women you meet at a club or a dance. They can be downright agressive to the point of scary!! It can be even worse when they find out you are bi, they come stronger than the creepiest of single men.

If I had been approached by some of those women when I first came to the club I think it would have been my last visit. I have seen them do some really rude aggressive down right unacceptable things trying to get women to play with them. Women like that turn me off completely. I was out dancing with a couple of women who I have played with in the past and the three of us got a little silly and started dirty dancing. Next thing I know some woman is grinding behind me, grabbing my breast and trying to kiss my next. Needless to say she learned pretty quick that just because I am dirty dancing with another woman, does not mean I want anything to do with her.

I guess when you aren't the norm you are always going to be treated differently. There is a couple in the club we go to that practice BDSM, and quite openly too. They are treated well by most people as they do not try to force their lifestyle on anyone, but I don't think they get as many partners becuase a lot of people are afraid of the concept. Even though I am pretty sure they would never do anything that would make someone else uncomfortable. In fact the male of the couple has been quite open about his attraction to me, it almost makes me feel bad turning him down becuase he is a very nice man but my husband isn't attracted to his partner and I don't want to play with him by myself.

It takes all kinds and in a perfect world we could say it doesn't matter what we call each other or what our preference is, but in the end I think it is important that we at the very least communicate what it is we are after and what our desires are so that no one gets the wrong impression.

[bill&sabrina]

Originally Posted by good times

So, have you ever been to an on-premise swing club? I recommend you go to one and have your wife go as a straight female. Look at all the bi-females through the eyes of a straight woman and chances are you won't be able to make the above statement in the future.

The above quote concerns one of two questions I have about this thread. First the quote. How is what you suggest going to change his wife? He said to the best of his knowledge she has never forced a straight woman to play with her.

My other question is about the reasons for straight men posting in a bi male thread. I have seen it suggested that this will keep from scaring off new straight men. I don't understand how this is effective. Don't people pass over the subjects that don't interest them? The subject of this post is vague, and could be confused as female bisexuality. One doesn't have to read very far into the original post, to see that male bisexuality is the main focus.

[Sweet_Candy]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

Don't people pass over the subjects that don't interest them?

I sure hope people don't pass over any topic they're not familiar with. For those new to the lifestyle the best way to prepare ones self is to gather as much knowledge as possible before getting ones feet wet. It's been our experience that we've run into so many different situations we would have been not prepared for if we had not done our homework before hand.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Chicup

No one is worried about being forced to do bi things. Its a simple belief that if a new swinger couple with a straight male were to think that male bisexuality was the norm in swinging, they may abandon swinging as 'not for them.' I'm sure there have been straight women who have done the same thing since at least some female bisexuality is the norm.

I know there have been couples with straight females who have abandoned swinging because of the overwhelming feeling that all females who swing are bi (or should at least be bi-curious). We've seen them post that very concern here as a reason for deciding to back away from swinging. We've also seen straight women leave this board because they felt they did not fit in either here or in the swinging world in general. I think that's pretty sad.

It's not an issue of just this board, but of the reality of swinging...and if it's already happening to straight women (where bisexuality among women seems to be a growing trend even in the mainstream vanilla world) then I can place a good bet that it would be even more the case among straight men if they felt that they were expected to be bi to swing.

Originally Posted by good times

So, have you ever been to an on-premise swing club? I recommend you go to one and have your wife go as a straight female. Look at all the bi-females through the eyes of a straight woman and chances are you won't be able to make the above statement in the future. First, I will say that most, in fact the majority of bi-women are very respectful of straight women. Unfortunately, a small minority of bi-women are extremely scary to newbie straight women.

The bi-furious women of which you speak do not behave that way just to straight women, but to bi women as well. These types of women are exactly why I stopped making attempts to swing as a single female. As a single female swinger it is assumed you are bi (and I am) and once it's confirmed it is like giving many of the bi female halves of couples permission to attack you. I left one social feeling completely violated BY OTHER WOMEN! Where it's expected that men ask before touching (and I will say that the husband of at least one of these women was almost as bad as she was) women don't seem to feel that they have to do that, not to men and not to other bi-females. The expectation from many bi-women is almost "oh you're bi, then you'll have sex with me".

Originally Posted by evilmj

There is a couple in the club we go to that practice BDSM, and quite openly too. They are treated well by most people as they do not try to force their lifestyle on anyone, but I don't think they get as many partners becuase a lot of people are afraid of the concept.

Another great point... and one that I can see overlapping to bisexuality quite well... especially bi men. And probably a good reason why many bi men may not be open about their bisexuality.
Again it is often assumed that if you are bi you can't play any other way. In a swap situation I would not have any problem if the other female were straight. I love playing with females but if I know she's not bi I'm not going to touch her. Period. End of Story. Because I don't want her to be uncomfortable. Unfortunately, most straight women would not want to play with a couple with a bi female because they would be worried the bi female might cross that boundary. And that is exactly what often happens with bi males as well. If others know they are bi they will probably not want to play with that couple for fear that he may cross the line and touch the other male. The really silly part is that in a swap situatoin there often occasions where the two men may touch or brush up against each other... and if both men are straight no one thinks anything of it. If one of them were bi they would assume he touched/brushed on purpose, whether it were true or not.

I realize I'm going back and for a lot between the two sides but it is a very double sided issues. I'm all for bi guys, if that is what they are comfortable with and want to do. What I'm not for is ANYONE straight, bi or gay trying to push their attitudes on other people... whether it's straight people saying that bi or gay people are WRONG, or bi or gay people trying to say that EVERYONE is bi and just hasn't realized it yet.

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

Don't people pass over the subjects that don't interest them?

Evidently not or we wouldn't get half the drama we see around here.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

My other question is about the reasons for straight men posting in a bi male thread. I have seen it suggested that this will keep from scaring off new straight men. I don't understand how this is effective. Don't people pass over the subjects that don't interest them?

While male bisexual activies do not interest me personally, if I were new to the lifestyle I'd want to know if these activities were common and expected. As such I would read any threads to know what I was in for.

As mentioned by others the over agressive 'bi' female (and bi is in quotes because I believe that many of these women are married lesbians, and thats not even my term for them, there were some that asked for that to be an orientation description on LL) can be a major turn off to mildly bi and straight women at swinger events. Undoubtedly this type of behavior has scared away some couples from swinging.

If I had the same issues with bi males that the straight women have with bi females, we would not be swinging. Since the situation with bi-males is not the same as bi-females I see nothing wrong with pointing out to new couples that while there is male homosexual activity in the lifestyle it is not the norm and you will not see much of it unless you seek it out.

[LetsParty]

Hi all,

I just browsed through this thread... it got a bit heavy, though.

Back to the original topic about labels, I once found something interesting by some psychologist who created a "Bisexuality Chart". For all I know, it's discussed in another thread (I am an occasional lurker here, rare poster...)

Anyways, you take seven dimensions of sexuality (A to G), and on each one you rate it from 1 to 7, as follows:

For variables A to E: For variables F and G:

1 = Other sex only 1 = Heterosexual only
2 = Other sex mostly 2 = Heterosexual mostly
3 = Other sex somewhat more 3 = Heterosexual somewhat more
4 = Both sexes equally 4 = Hetero/Gay-Lesbian equally
5 = Same sex somewhat more 5 = Gay/Lesbian somewhat more
6 = Same sex mostly 6 = Gay/Lesbian mostly
7 = Same sex only 7 = Gay/Lesbian only


(oops, that came out messy! I guess Tabs don't work! ~ It's basically a two column list of things labeled one to seven)

Now, here are the variables:

A- Sexual Attraction
B- Sexual behaviour
C- Sexual fantasies
D- Emotional Preference
E- Social preference
F- Sexual lifestyle
G- Self-identification

So, each thing is rated on a seven point scale.

Almost NO ONE (Except that spoo monkey dude, of course) is PURELY Hetero or PURELY Homo.

You add up all the 1 to 7's on the chart, and you will have an answer from 7 to 49, in terms of how hetero/bi/homo you are.

Bisexuality is fluid. At some points in your life, you may lean towards 100% hetero, but at other points it may move a little, and vice versa.)

For me personally, for all the factors, I am very, very much on the left side. I just don't like men as much as women; I identify myself with heteros, my sexual lifestyle is 100% hetero (In a group setting, sadly to say, I even get weirded out if I accidentally touch a hairy arm!)... however, the "C" part - sexual fantasy - does move me up a few notches towards the right side of the scale.

I'm not sure if anything will ever happen into the future... my partner is not turned on at the prospect... but even though reality is a far cry from fantasy, it's always fun to imagine a hard cock ramming the back of my throat, and then swallowing all it has to offer. (Did I just type that???)

[bill&sabrina]

Both quotes and my response were about me asking, "Don't people pass over the subjects that don't interest them?"

Originally Posted by Sweet_Candy

I sure hope people don't pass over any topic they're not familiar with. For those new to the lifestyle the best way to prepare ones self is to gather as much knowledge as possible before getting ones feet wet. It's been our experience that we've run into so many different situations we would have been not prepared for if we had not done our homework before hand.

I was asking why would someone look into a subject they have no desire to be familiar with?

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

Evidently not or we wouldn't get half the drama we see around here.

One more quote, that responds to a question I asked in my first post.

Originally Posted by Chicup

I see nothing wrong with pointing out to new couples that while there is male homosexual activity in the lifestyle it is not the norm and you will not see much of it unless you seek it out.

I also see nothing wrong with this. I want to know why threads are hijacked to do it.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

I also see nothing wrong with this. I want to know why threads are hijacked to do it.

Because at some point a bi male or his protective wife, and I think it is in order to sooth their own insecurities, will start on the whole double standard, homophobic, non-enlightened, cultural taboo aspect of being 'straight' as a male comes up.

Notice that in this thread, there have been no straight male posts, and there wont' be unless the above happens. I don't have a favorite MMF position, nor do any of the other straight males so we will ignore the thread.
Bi MMF-favorite positions?

[beaverz]

I must have missed up cause I just discovered that on paper I'm 100% Liberace gay (my algebra skills are not what they use to be), I didn't see that one coming. I guess I need to find a calculator in confirm the numbers before I break the news to Mrs. Beaverz and change my wardrobe.

Sorry for the interruption!

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by beaverz

I must have missed up cause I just discovered that on paper I'm 100% Liberace gay (my algebra skills are not what they use to be), I didn't see that one coming. I guess I need to find a calculator in confirm the numbers before I break the news to Mrs. Beaverz and change my wardrobe.

It's not your orientation that counts, it's the size of your candelabra.

So I've heard.

Thrax

[good times]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

The bi-furious women of which you speak do not behave that way just to straight women, but to bi women as well. These types of women are exactly why I stopped making attempts to swing as a single female.

That’s interesting because one of our friends who has listed herself in her profile and played as a bi-female for about three years just told us a couple of weeks ago that she was done with bi-play. Her reasons were the same as yours. The same night she told us this we witnessed her being continually harassed by the bi-furious female I referred to earlier that bit my wife’s nipple.

The interesting thing is that in 4 years of regular club attendance we have seen many single males sanctioned by the club management for touching without asking or exhibiting other undesirable behavior. In that same time we have never seen one of these bi-women sanctioned, and their behavior is often much worse than anything we have ever seen a single male do, it really is a double standard. I have to say though, that I understand why this happens, being a regular club attendee I understand club dynamics all too well. If a person complains to management about a bi-furious female the worst that will happen is she will get a minor talking to, and I suspect the person doing the complaining will probably be ostracized for it and labeled as a "homophobic". I may understand, but I cannot say I like it.

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Almost NO ONE (Except that spoo monkey dude, of course) is PURELY Hetero or PURELY Homo.

I am curious, on what do you base this assumption?

I am as "purely hetro" as they come, and no, I don't even fantasize about same gender sex, and most of the males I know say they feel the same way.

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

Both quotes and my response were about me asking, "Don't people pass over the subjects that don't interest them?"



I was asking why would someone look into a subject they have no desire to be familiar with?

I think when people are trying to learn about something they are interested in pursuing but know very little about, they will be especially interested in reading threads that address activities that might go on, or be expected, that they are not interested in, I know I do. Let's face it their are many people like me that have the attitude of, "as long as I don't have to participate, and you don't try to force it on me, then I don't care what you are into." However, a large number of people find same sex activity so repulsive that they will not even put themselves in a position to see it. We in the lifestyle have gotten rather used to seeing FF activity, whether we like it or not, but a funny thing happened a short time ago at one of the clubs we attend.

This club is normally a gay bar, but once a month they host a swinger’s party. During this party the clubs regular patrons are not excluded, so their is an interesting mix of gays and swingers. On this particular night, several women were in a public area licking each other’s sensitive spots when a couple of gay guys decided that looked like a good idea and one of them started giving the other a BJ. The FF play immediately came to a stop and I thought it was kind of funny when one of the women involved told me how repulsed she was by what the gay guys were doing. It never occurred to her that their might be people present that were equally repulsed by what she was doing.

This club also highlights another thing that I find interesting, and that is how many people will not attend because they allow gays at the swinger’s party. The local swinger community is fairly tight nit. Their are three clubs in town and most all the regulars know each other. I would say about half of the club regulars will not attend the parties at the club where gays are allowed and freely admit that is the reason why they won't. Based on that I would suspect that a lot of people who come here will read these threads, if for no other reason than to find out if this activity will be expected of them if they pursue the lifestyle.

[Annaiis]

I am straight (put any numbers, prefixes or adjectives you'd like with that label, it doesn't matter to me)

To add my 2 cents to this thread, I have had a number of what Just ask Julie refers to as "bi-furious" females make it uncomfortable for me at my local club, and although I've handled the situations myself without resorting to complaining to the hosts, I suspect good times is right when he says "the worst that will happen is she will get a minor talking to, and I suspect the person doing the complaining will probably be ostracized for it and labeled as a "homophobic". "

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by good times

On this particular night, several women were in a public area licking each other’s sensitive spots when a couple of gay guys decided that looked like a good idea and one of them started giving the other a BJ. The FF play immediately came to a stop and I thought it was kind of funny when one of the women involved told me how repulsed she was by what the gay guys were doing. It never occurred to her that their might be people present that were equally repulsed by what she was doing.

I know several women who would fall into the same boat here, though tbh none of them would be into public sex either. While the double standard is quite real, I've never met anyone in swinging where the female was straight AND revolted by FF activity (and never ever ever came close to finding a swinging male that was).

What she was doing was the swingers norm, accepted, and encouraged, what the men were doing was not.

What does interest me in this subject, is while on this board there are several women who talk about how much they would be turned on by MM activity, yet I've yet to meet any swinging who have said such a thing. They have all said the opposite really, and male bi-sexuality is something that they state is a turn off, much like the woman in the above story.

So which is it? If you go by the internet, it seems that its a majority that likes it, if I go by what I see in person, its the opposite. Are people just more honest here? Does the board just have a skewed sample?