Men, where do you fall on the Kinsey scale of homosexual tendancies?

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by curiousagain

Well, there was such a study but I have read that orginally it was actually on prison inmates.

...and I heard that they found a bloody hook hanging from the passenger side door...

I am not saying there is no study out there, but isn't this starting to sound just a bit like an urban legend? I mean - can anyone actually cite the study?

And what did they use to measure their reactions? Rapid heart beat? Shifting around in their seats? Aggitation? What signs were they looking for? Did the room full of skin head truckers start "shucking corn"?

Spoomonkey

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

...and I heard that they found a bloody hook hanging from the passenger side door...

I am not saying there is no study out there, but isn't this starting to sound just a bit like an urban legend? I mean - can anyone actually cite the study?

And what did they use to measure their reactions? Rapid heart beat? Shifting around in their seats? Aggitation? What signs were they looking for? Did the room full of skin head truckers start "shucking corn"?

Spoomonkey

Here's a study, Spoo (abstract here, from a U of Georgia study, full article not available that I could find in a web search):

http://content.apa.org/journals/abn/105/3/440

The device used to measure reactions is a phalloplesthymograph--a device that measures penile tumesence.

There was another more recent article about this that I read (and forwarded to a couple of friends) in the past few weeks. Unfortunately, it isn't one of the emails still in my outbox as it had the link which I can't find at the moment.

[Paphian]

And a little more detail: http://www.psych.org/pnews/96-09-20/phobia.html

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by BiloxiCouple

I watch too much TV. I can't remember the show, but the information/study went something like this:

They took two groups of male after an interview process which calculated their homosexual tendencies.

The 1st group was straight and against (for lack of better words) homosexuals.

The 2nd group was straight but not against homosexuals.

They made both groups watch a homosexual porn movie and measured their reactions to it. The 1st group said they had no reactions to it, while the measurements said they did. I believe the 2nd group had no reactions and the measurements confirmed it.

Maybe alot of us are in denial?

If you saw the show and my information is wrong please correct it. I don't even remember the show's name.

Thanks for the link TNT. Ya'll are great.

I don't think anyone here is 'against' homosexuals.

We are just not interested in having homosexual sex.

Big difference there.

[sereneiders]

The first link posted here, where you'll find the actual actegories for that study, points out that "an individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life".

The scale also refers to "incidental homosexuality", and I understand this means actual experiences and NOT fantasies. This seems to be a way different study than the other survey where guys were shown a porn movie and measured the reaction... and even such an study doesn't tells too much about fantasies.

A serious study should be properly framed, moreover, there should be some ways to reasure you're measuring what you want to measure, and not side effects from unrelated events. This is something very hard to achieve with sexuality: even the researcher is afected, an the lesser prejudice, even the his/her cultural dependence, may distort the setting and the results.

It's funny because I have a mix of attitudes regarding the subect that fits both Spoomonkey arguments to say he's straight like a phone pole, and the supposedly opposing ones by means of which i'd be gay.

1) Yes, I had an incidental experience when I was young with another guy (my ass was the one in the line of fire). It took me time to admit to myself I liked the phisical experience, but anyway, I was unable to take the emotional aspects, moreover the ones that have to do with my identity and the way I like to perceive myself. So, I may have the phisical experience with a lady with a toy, and I am not up to repeat an experience with another guy.

2) That experience happend when I was young, so for that period of my life I'd have to say it was an 1 in the scale (incidental experience), but this is known after having the remaining experiences with women, by then it was the only experience I had, so it could have been ranged as 6 in the scale. Since today I am not up to be with another guy, in this period of my life I'd be ranged as 0 in the scale.

3) I have homosexual fantasies, perhaps from the memories of the phisical feelings I got from that experience: i'd be ranging at, let say, 2. But actually these fantasies are depersonalized: I cannot "match" a face with the character in these fantasies, as soon as I try to do that, the whole fantasy becomes a turn off to the point of being disgusting. So, I may fantasize about a "someone" but cannot do it about some "one": i'd be ranging at 0.

4) I tryed to watch homosexual porn when trying to understand something about all of this, and I've seen bi scenes in porn, in every case, just watching these guys togheter gave me that "stomach sick" feeling. I found it disgusting. Even when with gay friends, watching them kiss eachother, I have to get rid of my poker face to be polite. I'd be ranging at 0 again.

5) About the porn thing, I have to admit this disgusting feelings may come from some stereotyped gay esthetics that porn producers use to stick to (they should know their market), and one of the aspects I have problems with are these esthetics, the feathers stuff, both the claiming for sterotyped female features for males, and the denial of feminity by enhancing the male/macho thing, so I have to suppose my reaction from pron movies are biased by these esthetics, as much as the current "sexual" thing. For example, I dislike these porn even before someone get even naked, in the other hand, it may find myself turned on from the sight of a hung guy... but in a straight porn movie. I'd be ranging at... what?

My point is, it seems there's no clear bundaries between fantasies, arousing events, and actual experience: I have homosexual fantasies, I am not aroused from homo-related events (moreover it's a turn off), I had an actual experience where I can set appart the turn ons and turn offs, and the later weights way more than the former in the balance.

I am bot with Spoomonkey here... and against his oppinion too. In fact, it is pointless to try to define this straight vs. gay thing, making a scale to range graytones doesn't help to make a point.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Paphian

And a little more detail: http://www.psych.org/pnews/96-09-20/phobia.html

When I was thinking of this study yesterday, it occurred to me that the measured response could be something else. Obviously, I'm not the only one who thinks so (See quote below from the posted article). The study only shows that men who are comfortable with their sexuality (i.e. the hetero-non-homophobic men) have nothing to prove and nothing to be afraid of...

I kinda knew that all along

Spoomonkey

Originally Posted by Psychiatric News

Competing Theories

The researchers offer competing explanations for the arousal experienced by the homophobic men in response to erotic videos of male homosexual acts. The psychoanalytically oriented theory would view homophobia "as one type of latent homosexuality where persons either are unaware of or deny their homosexual urges," they point out.

An alternative hypothesis, which they attribute to Barlow, Sakheim, and Beck, focuses on the role of anxiety in sexual responsiveness. It postulates that "viewing homosexual stimuli causes negative emotions such as anxiety in homophobic men but not in nonhomophobic men. Because anxiety has been shown to enhance arousal and erection, this theory would predict increases in erection in homophobic men." Thus, the homophobic men's increased arousal is a response to a perceived threat rather than to stimuli they find sexually arousing.

Evaluating the validity of either theory requires further research, the authors caution.

[NandTfromCA]

I've already given my take on this in another thread but, based on the comments and poll, had to jump in here.

Anyone should feel comfortable being wherever they are. There shouldn’t be any pressure on “straight” guys to accept a “everyone is a little gay” agenda. On the same note, I’m not sure where the defensiveness is coming from??? Billy posted a poll and discussion topic to find out where everyone stands…what’s the big deal? His post seemed non-biased to me…was he really asking straight men to say they are bi? Maybe I am naïve and that was his agenda from the start.

What I read was someone sitting a study that suggests there is a scale people fall in, some 100% hetero and some 100% homo, and others somewhere in between. I will defend that point to the bitter end.

· Obviously there a many men, probably the majority, that feel like Spoo and have no inclination to think about or participate in any kind of male/male acts- straight men.
· Obviously there are men who are male/male exclusive- gay men.
· AND whether obvious or not, there are people like me that are between the two ends of the spectrum.

Am I straight because I decided it wasn’t for me? Am I gay because I thought about it and even tried it (blowjob)? Do I not even care how you want to label it? I’m going with the later…I am what I am…a guy who LOVES women and sucked a guy’s cock once.

The poll doesn’t validate (almost half have either thought about or had minor attempts at male/male) or justify anything. There’s no need for that.

The cool thing is that people ARE shades of gray. Keeps life interesting.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by NandTfromCA

I will defend that point to the bitter end.

If there's a "bitter end" involved - I'll just say "uncle" now...

This is one of those things I am not sure I'd die defending

Spoomonkey

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

When I was thinking of this study yesterday, it occurred to me that the measured response could be something else. Obviously, I'm not the only one who thinks so (See quote below from the posted article). The study only shows that men who are comfortable with their sexuality (i.e. the hetero-non-homophobic men) have nothing to prove and nothing to be afraid of...

I kinda knew that all along

Spoomonkey

Yep, two possible hypotheses. Sounds like further studies are needed. There's bound to be a government grant potential in there somewhere. :rollseyes

[bill&sabrina]

Why is it that everytime a poll about bisexuality comes up, the "straight" men have to tell us all how "straight" they are? I have been around the board for about 4 years now, and everytime something is said about male to male contact the same men have to post that they aren't interested in it at all. Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourselves?

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by bill&sabrina

Why is it that everytime a poll about bisexuality comes up, the "straight" men have to tell us all how "straight" they are?

Well, in the case of this thread, men are asked where they place themselves with regard to the choices on the poll. One of the choices is straight, so I don't see any problem with someone explaining why they picked that option.

Secondly, as in other threads, there was a comment early on in this one that...

Originally Posted by sexyshelby

I work with a gay man and he swears that all men have SOME gay tendencies.

...and similar things have been posted in first or second person on other threads concerning male bisexuality. Again, if something like that is posted I have no problem with someone discussing and/or challenging the statement by explaining a personal preference, and why his opinion differs with somebody else's. And, to me, that seems to be what happened on this thread and in most of the other threads.

I think polls are used to get opinions and engender discussion, and that's what appears to be the case here.

Thrax

[NandTfromCA]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

If there's a "bitter end" involved - I'll just say "uncle" now...

This is one of those things I am not sure I'd die defending

Spoomonkey

It is sometimes easier to joke things off or extrapolate to extremes (“die defending”), if a discussion is making people uncomfortable or irritated.

I apologize if I led anyone to believe I would die defending this point. That said, I would be willing to piss some people off, make them uncomfortable, or get ostracized from a group while defending that point. Not that I WANT to do any of those but it’s apparent that I need clarify "bitter end" in this context.

For you the question may be black and white, and that’s all good. But it should be obvious that the overall issue is not black and white, and that’s all that was stated in the original post (and emphasized in my previous post).

Peace

T

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by NandTfromCA

It is sometimes easier to joke things off or extrapolate to extremes (“die defending”), if a discussion is making people uncomfortable or irritated.

I really was just making a joke. I apologize if I offended you - that was not my intention.

I think the issue of sexuality is one of a very broad spectrum. There are many shades of gray - but the bookends are, indeed, black and white. I have zero problem with where in that spectrum anyone falls (see my previous post as to my comfort with gay males).

My only problem - and as Thrax posted above, this was based on Sexy Shelby's thread about a second hand conversation where the same tired "everyone has some degree of gay" postulate is put forth.

The truth is - no I don't - which ruins the argument.

I didn't take issue with the original poster until he posted about a study which had ambiguous (at best) findings.

To answer the question of Bill&Sabrina - I post to these threads when they become bullshit. In other words, when the idea is put forward that I MUST be in denial or outright lying about my sexuality. I know my sexuality better than anyone.

I think people bristle when this "pet theory" is attacked because if it isn't true that all men are "at least a little bi" then that means that not every man is like them and they may be a little bit different.

Why that is threatening to them... That I can't figure out...

Spoomonkey

[sereneiders]

I think the misconception here is to believe human behavior (and sexuality) can fit an analogy where these falls at some point of a segment, like having one end black, the other white, and shades of gray in between.

If I had to choose an analogy, it'd be the entire colour spectrum as it's subjectively perceived by humans, where every primary color can be smoothly mixed with the others, there are no end points, insthead a continuos circle (besides the phisical fact that theres one end at the red wavelenght and another at the violet one, we perceive violet close to red when composing light with colors), and this circle covers a surface when you smoothly mix every color with white and black.

Even so, the enalogy doesn't fit, but let's give it a chance. To label someone as "straight" or "gay" would be the same than labeling someone as "red" or "blue": without a Pantone chart (that doesn't exist for human behavior), anithing that is perceived "red enough" would be called "red", just when the amount of other colors become perceptible to the eye (and everyone's eye have it own sesibility), you can say "hmmm... no, that's not red... perhaps orange, a little dark, but not red", while someone else says "come on, man, that's red".

I believe that, when someone says "every male have some gay tendencies" it's because he/she's facing the fact of the inacuracy we have to tell "this is red", I mean, how much shift towards some other color is within tolerance as to tell red from some other color, moreover when there's no such a thing in nature like "something REALLY red", since ven the more slight change in the way that thing is iluminated will shift that pure red into something else.

Following this analogy, saying "i am not gay, at all", is like saying "i am sure I am red, without even a bit of orange"... and regarding to the colors spectrum... how you, or someone else, can tell?

In the other hand, when someone says "every male have some gay tendencies", it's under the suposition that there exist someone "acurate enough" to have "the authority" to tell your color... but that's something theoretical because no one is that acurate. And since we're not talking about painting, but something having to do with our own self appreciation and our identity, it is unacceptable to "give up" such an authority to tell to someone else because hipotetically such a person could exist, so the subjective ways everyone see colors cannot be challenged, and everyone es entitled to say "i am red, no yellow at all" or "i am pale green".

And this issue become "bolder" when you shirnk the color "labels", for example, turning the picture into a black/white graytone.

So, what I actually know is that I don't fit into none of this survey categries (if you care, see the details), and if someone says that "it's impossible" and for sure "I should fit to one" (disregarding my subjective color sensibility), I'd feel violented.

[NandTfromCA]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I really was just making a joke. I apologize if I offended you - that was not my intention.

I though you were poking fun at me to some degree. I was obviously defensive so I apologize for not giving you more benefit of the doubt. Surrender

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

To answer the question of Bill&Sabrina - I post to these threads when they become bullshit. In other words, when the idea is put forward that I MUST be in denial or outright lying about my sexuality. I know my sexuality better than anyone.

I think people bristle when this "pet theory" is attacked because if it isn't true that all men are "at least a little bi" then that means that not every man is like them and they may be a little bit different.
Spoomonkey

100% on board with you. To each their own...accept your inner freak...whatever color it is, and accept that everyone is not like you