Bi Women vs. Bi Men

[txduo2000]

I know that there are a few threads on here that discuss the differences of opinion between bi women and bi men, but rather than searching for and reviving an old, outdated thread, I thought I would open a fresh discussion on this topic, should anyone be interested.

I (the female half) am not bi. I have no interest in it whatsoever. I have had a couple of bisexual experiences, and frankly, I was not impressed whatsoever. It wasn't something I was terribly comfortable with. I do not see women in normal everyday life and admire them in a sexual manner. It is simply not appealing to me.

I read on the personals ads and other websites things like, "women know how women feel better than men", "women can perform oral better than men", etc.

Well, maybe it's the matter of my husband knowing my body and knowing what I respond to best, but my bisexual experiences were NO WHERE CLOSE to pleasing me like my husband does. In fact, those experiences were no where close to when I have been pleased by male play partners. And I know, I know ... I have already heard it ... maybe those women just weren't any good, lol. One of our female friends who constantly tries to convert me and tells me I am "closet bi", tells me that no one can do it like SHE can ... however, SHE was one of my experiences ... again, not impressed. lol

But specifically, the point of this thread is to ask ... Why the double standard with regard to female bisexuality and male bisexuality? I mean, hey, if you are a male and simply not interested at all ... I totally understand because you probably feel like I do. I have often likened my feelings toward bisexuality to those expressed by many men regarding male bisexuality.

But it seems like there is so much stigma placed on male bisexuality and I am really curious as to others' opinions as to why???

Recently, we came across an ad on one of the swingers personals sites. In the space provided to discuss bisexuality, this couple's said that she is, but he is "straight ... his daddy raised him to be a man, not a damn fruitloop!"

Why does male bisexuality make a man a "fruitloop" but it is perfectly acceptable (and in many cases in swinger-ville, EXPECTED) for a woman to be bi?

Ok, I understand some people's opinions that the female body is beautiful and men's bodies are not. That is another thing that is at war with my way of thinking ... I find certain men, including my hubby, to have beautiful bodies.

So, what are your thoughts? Do any others feel as I do? That this is an unreasonable double standard? That the stigma placed on male bisexuality is at war with the general acceptance of female bisexuality?

[curiousduo30]

Txduo2000,
I totally agree with you on the bi sexual stigma's you have outlined. I am bi curious, meaning for me, I DO find other women attractive, and have had an experience with another woman but do not feel that I am truly bi in the sense that I have not had the opportunity to reciprocate as of yet (whole story there let's just say timing was way off and there is a playdate set up in the future that I will NOT miss...lol). However, Mr.CD30 is definitely straight and is a bit freaked out about the whole bi male thing. I personally do not see a problem either way. But I can definitely see what you mean about the double standard where this is concerned and I myself have felt the same way. I will say though, even though my hubby is not interested in MM play, he has made it very clear that FF play is my choice with NO expectations on his part. But in all honesty, he does tend to bypass those profiles where the men are bi, just because I think it makes him nervous. But I too have noticed the whole assumption about women being "converted" and I would be uncomfortable with that as well if it were me. I would also like to add that just because I am bi (curious) does not mean that I want to play with every female I meet either....

[Chicup]

Ack, not another double standard bi post......

There was a recent study done that really annoyed the gay community but seems to hold water. Basically the study showed that most bi-males are either straight or gay, and very few are really bi. What they were looking at was what aroused the men. Was it MM, FF, etc. Only a handfull were turned on by both. Also in other studies a lot of gay men started out thinking they were bisexual (something like 40% of all gays studied). Long story short what this means is true male bisexuality is pretty rare. You have straight men who are 'open minded' doing it, and gay men who are basically in denial.

For women its quite different (from some other studies). Few bisexual women ever changed their orientation, unlike the men, and they get aroused by viewing sexual material from both sexes.

So basically bisexuality IS different for men and women. I'm running out of time, and there is more to this, but thats the gist of it.

[dave1234]

Studies that "prove" any aspect of human behavior is black or white makes me question it's validity. In our experiences the vast majority of the female half of the couples we play with are Bi. In addition many of the men are oral Bi or oral Bi curious. We tend to swing at a fairly "hardcore" venue so our observations may be skewed. Our one experience at a couples only membership club were quite different.

The widely accepted statistics on gender preference are from the Kinsey study. The Kinsey scale defines gender preference on a scale of 0 to 6. In summary the following was found by Kinsey researchers:

0 - exclusively heterosexual
1 - predominantly heterosexual, incidentally homosexual
2 - predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 - equally heterosexual and homosexual
4 - predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 - predominantly homosexual, incidentally heterosexual
6 - exclusively homosexual

4 - 6% of men were rated as "6"
10 % of men were rated 4, 5, or 6
18% of men were rated as 3, 4, 5, or 6
37% of all men experienced orgasm in a sexual activity with another man at some time in their life.
60% of all men had some type of homosexual relationship before they were age 16.
30% of all men had some type of homosexual relationship between age 20 - 24.

Ranks for women were about one-half that of men (exact percentages were not provided by Kinsey). Keep in mind, this research was conducted as a time of lower sexual activity for women than recent surveys have indicated.
Source: http://www.lgbtcampus.org/resources/...sey_scale.html

[txduo2000]

Thanks Dave ... insightful.

I tend to agree with Dave that "studies" on human behaviors cannot truly be quantified as valid.

My own personal opinion is that it is society that determines the values and mores, and therefore, since the stigma is more of a SOCIAL one as far as bisexual men, there are many men who may be curious and have those same-sex desires, but are hesitant to act on them, or even talk to their SO about them, because of the extreme taboo still placed on male bisexuality.

Maybe in about 20 years it will be more widely acceptable for curious men to feel comfortable in expressing their bisexual tendencies and arousals. Just like so many other things have become more socially accepted as time passed, time will tell on this particular one too, I suppose.

But until then, I am still going to be very much annoyed by this double standard.

[Chicup]

Dave if you are not sure on how valid studies are you should perhaps not be quoting Kinsey. Kinsey's studies were nice in that they opened the door to this kind of thing but they were horribly flawed.

[EmpyreanPleasur]

Recently, we came across an ad on one of the swingers personals sites. In the space provided to discuss bisexuality, this couple's said that she is, but he is "straight ... his daddy raised him to be a man, not a damn fruitloop!"

I am bi...my husband is straight. I am not even remotely turned on by two men together. But I'd have to say that anyone with an ad like this wouldn't even be a consideration for us. How rude!

My husband has been in situations with bi men and while he doesn't find it a turn on, he isn't put off by these men and we both find it horrible when we run into prejudice against it. He has given a lot of consideration to the option, realizing it would expand his opportunities, but he simply isn't interested in other men.

I'm not sure if this is because of our society and how we are raised or is it possibly even genetic, but it is more popular to run into bi-sexual women. I understand that, but we don't tolerate people who are prejudiced against bi men and I'm not even comfortable with the immature joking that goes on among a lot of men when they put down other bi males. It sounds so grammer-schoolish even though they are "just joking".

[txduo2000]

Empyrean ... I totally understand your husband's lack of interest. As I emphasized, I compare myself and my lack of interest in women to the way many men have a lack of interest in m/m contact.

It was that line in that ad that prompted me to begin this thread. I was put off by it. My husband is not bi, and not remotely curious (as far as I know), but you know, it wouldn't bother me if he were. I don't fantasize about seeing m/m situations, but I am neither repulsed by it.

But basically, I began this thread to try to perhaps understand why being bi makes a man a "fruitloop" in so many opinions, but it is perfectly acceptable for the woman in that relationship to be bi without stigma or the threat of being called such derogatory names????

It's just an enigma .... But I truly do believe that it is more societal than anything else.

[hilltop]

Originally Posted by txduo2000

Maybe in about 20 years it will be more widely acceptable for curious men to feel comfortable in expressing their bisexual tendencies and arousals. Just like so many other things have become more socially accepted as time passed, time will tell on this particular one too, I suppose.

I agree with txduo. We're still under the sway of how previous generations have defined what it is to be a man. Like all things of this type, the transition is a slow one.

I think bi desires for men are still heavily perceived as a threat to masculinity and when society fears something it creates generations wide taboos.

I remember in the 70's & 80's there was never any FF play or any discussion of it among the people I was involved with.

Now there's a level of acceptance almost to the point of expectation for bi-women.

Both genders have undergone massive re-definition in the last 30 years.
How it's gonna shake out is anybody's guess.

[EmpyreanPleasur]

I think the "fruitloop" concept is just plain ignorance and unsophistication. It is prejudiced and mean by any standard...and just as unacceptable as racial discrimination in my view.

People who act like this aren't just NOT bi, they are ignorant and were raised to be ignorant and rude. You don't have to be bisexual to be nice to other people of any sexual preference right?

[Chicup]

I do hope when society finally comes around to accepting MM play that it will still be ok for my wife and I still find it a major turn off.

Nothing shuts her down faster sexually then seeing two guys together.

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I do hope when society finally comes around to accepting MM play that it will still be ok for my wife and I still find it a major turn off.

Nothing shuts her down faster sexually then seeing two guys together.

LOL ... maybe you guys will then enter the weird realm in which I dwell ... people will look at you like you are crazy and want to "convert" you.

[good times]

First I should say, if you already don't know it, that both my wife and I are totally straight, neither one of us gets turned on by seeing MM or FF activity. Does that mean that if their is incidental contact between same sexes during play time we will run screaming from the room? No, we are not homophobic or prejudice, if you are into it thats fine with us, just don't include us in the bi play.

But that still leaves the question of the double standard.

I think that the reason their appears to be a double standard in the swinging community is that their are a lot more Bi women than Bi men. The large majority of people at the clubs we attend, if asked, will say that MM activity is a turn off, so it is much easier to freely admit it without being ostracized. On the other hand, at these same clubs around a third of the women there will probably be bi, so if one were to publicly admit that they find FF activity a turn off they would probably be shunned by the majority for the rest of the night (it would offend the third that are bi and a good portion of the rest who now think they are an idiot for admitting how they feel in room full of bi women).

We have also become desensitized to FF activity. I can remember when we first started going to the clubs and how shocking it was to see one woman giving another oral sex. But now, after seeing it hundreds of times we don't think anything of it. In other words, through repeated exposure to it we now consider it as a normal everyday activity at the club.

We have run into the women who want to convert other women too. I'll never forget the night a woman dropped down and applied her tongue to Mrs. GT without asking. Mrs. GT's reaction was an immediate reflex action and the woman left quickly with a prominent knot on her head. So now it is pretty well understood by the regular patrons of the clubs we attend that converting Mrs. GT is not an option.

[EmpyreanPleasur]

We have run into the women who want to convert other women too. I'll never forget the night a woman dropped down and applied her tongue to Mrs. GT without asking.

I'm sorry but this sort of behavior just appalls me! If a guy did this he'd be limping away after BOTH I and my husband let him have it!

[dave1234]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Dave if you are not sure on how valid studies are you should perhaps not be quoting Kinsey. Kinsey's studies were nice in that they opened the door to this kind of thing but they were horribly flawed.

That depends on your training and/or opinion of population sampling. Most formally trained statisticians would argue for a small N that is a representative sample. But, how do you select a representative sample when the study involves contoversial questions about sexuality? Do you select representitively amongst people who answer truthfully and lie? Kinsey believed in a large N, frequentist approach and invokes the Law of Large Numbers to achieve a valid result.

Just my humble statistical opinion....