Interesting Article on Bisexuality

[gsu22]

Article I found on AOL news below;from the New York Times by Benedict Carey

I would like to say that I disagree with the article. I do have sexual arousal with both sexes, however, mostly it centers around women. The relationship aspect; the emotional aspect; and the sexual aspect...just to mention a few. MM contact does excite me too; but just in a strictly sexual way and in no way does it outweigh my thoughts for women...any MM contact for me(still looking for my first time; only fantasies to this point) is just extra facelick


(July 5, 2005) - Some people are attracted to women; some are attracted to men. And some, if Sigmund Freud, Dr. Alfred Kinsey and millions of self-described bisexuals are to be believed, are drawn to both sexes.

But a new study casts doubt on whether true bisexuality exists, at least in men.

The study, by a team of psychologists in Chicago and Toronto, lends support to those who have long been skeptical that bisexuality is a distinct and stable sexual orientation.

People who claim bisexuality, according to these critics, are usually homosexual, but are ambivalent about their homosexuality or simply closeted. "You're either gay, straight or lying," as some gay men have put it.

In the new study, a team of psychologists directly measured genital arousal patterns in response to images of men and women. The psychologists found that men who identified themselves as bisexual were in fact exclusively aroused by either one sex or the other, usually by other men.

The study is the largest of several small reports suggesting that the estimated 1.7 percent of men who identify themselves as bisexual show physical attraction patterns that differ substantially from their professed desires.

"Research on sexual orientation has been based almost entirely on self-reports, and this is one of the few good studies using physiological measures," said Dr. Lisa Diamond, an associate professor of psychology and gender identity at the University of Utah, who was not involved in the study.

The discrepancy between what is happening in people's minds and what is going on in their bodies, she said, presents a puzzle "that the field now has to crack, and it raises this question about what we mean when we talk about desire."

"We have assumed that everyone means the same thing," she added, "but here we have evidence that that is not the case."

Several other researchers who have seen the study, scheduled to be published in the journal Psychological Science, said it would need to be repeated with larger numbers of bisexual men before clear conclusions could be drawn.

Bisexual desires are sometimes transient and they are still poorly understood. Men and women also appear to differ in the frequency of bisexual attractions. "The last thing you want," said Dr. Randall Sell, an assistant professor of clinical socio-medical sciences at Columbia University, "is for some therapists to see this study and start telling bisexual people that they're wrong, that they're really on their way to homosexuality."

He added, "We don't know nearly enough about sexual orientation and identity" to jump to these conclusions.

In the experiment, psychologists at Northwestern University and the Center for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto used advertisements in gay and alternative newspapers to recruit 101 young adult men. Thirty-three of the men identified themselves as bisexual, 30 as straight and 38 as homosexual.

The researchers asked the men about their sexual desires and rated them on a scale from 0 to 6 on sexual orientation, with 0 to 1 indicating heterosexuality, and 5 to 6 indicating homosexuality. Bisexuality was measured by scores in the middle range.

Seated alone in a laboratory room, the men then watched a series of erotic movies, some involving only women, others involving only men.

Using a sensor to monitor sexual arousal, the researchers found what they expected: gay men showed arousal to images of men and little arousal to images of women, and heterosexual men showed arousal to women but not to men.

But the men in the study who described themselves as bisexual did not have patterns of arousal that were consistent with their stated attraction to men and to women. Instead, about three-quarters of the group had arousal patterns identical to those of gay men; the rest were indistinguishable from heterosexuals.

"Regardless of whether the men were gay, straight or bisexual, they showed about four times more arousal" to one sex or the other, said Gerulf Rieger, a graduate psychology student at Northwestern and the study's lead author.

Although about a third of the men in each group showed no significant arousal watching the movies, their lack of response did not change the overall findings, Mr. Rieger said.

Since at least the middle of the 19th century, behavioral scientists have noted bisexual attraction in men and women and debated its place in the development of sexual identity. Some experts, like Freud, concluded that humans are naturally bisexual. In his landmark sex surveys of the 1940's, Dr. Alfred Kinsey found many married, publicly heterosexual men who reported having had sex with other men.

"Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual," Dr. Kinsey wrote. "The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats."

By the 1990's, Newsweek had featured bisexuality on its cover, bisexuals had formed advocacy groups and television series like "Sex and the City" had begun exploring bisexual themes.

Yet researchers were unable to produce direct evidence of bisexual arousal patterns in men, said Dr. J. Michael Bailey, a professor of psychology at Northwestern and the new study's senior author.

A 1979 study of 30 men found that those who identified themselves as bisexuals were indistinguishable from homosexuals on measures of arousal. Studies of gay and bisexual men in the 1990's showed that the two groups reported similar numbers of male sexual partners and risky sexual encounters. And a 1994 survey by The Advocate, the gay-oriented newsmagazine, found that, before identifying themselves as gay, 40 percent of gay men had described themselves as bisexual.

"I'm not denying that bisexual behavior exists," said Dr. Bailey, "but I am saying that in men there's no hint that true bisexual arousal exists, and that for men arousal is orientation."

But other researchers - and some self-identified bisexuals - say that the technique used in the study to measure genital arousal is too crude to capture the richness - erotic sensations, affection, admiration - that constitutes sexual attraction.

Social and emotional attraction are very important elements in bisexual attraction, said Dr. Fritz Klein, a sex researcher and the author of "The Bisexual Option."

"To claim on the basis of this study that there's no such thing as male bisexuality is overstepping, it seems to me," said Dr. Gilbert Herdt, director of the National Sexuality Resource Center in San Francisco. "It may be that there is a lot less true male bisexuality than we think, but if that's true then why in the world are there so many movies, novels and TV shows that have this as a theme - is it collective fantasy, merely a projection? I don't think so."

John Campbell, 36, a Web designer in Orange County, Calif., who describes himself as bisexual, also said he was skeptical of the findings.

Mr. Campbell said he had been strongly attracted to both sexes since he was sexually aware, although all his long-term relationships had been with women. "In my case I have been accused of being heterosexual, but I also feel a need for sex with men," he said.

Mr. Campbell rated his erotic attraction to men and women as about 50-50, but his emotional attraction, he said, was 90 to 10 in favor of women. "With men I can get aroused, I just don't feel the fireworks like I do with women," he said.

About 1.5 percent of American women identify themselves bisexual. And bisexuality appears easier to demonstrate in the female sex. A study published last November by the same team of Canadian and American researchers, for example, found that most women who said they were bisexual showed arousal to men and to women.

Although only a small number of women identify themselves as bisexual, Dr. Bailey said, bisexual arousal may for them in fact be the norm.

Researchers have little sense yet of how these differences may affect behavior, or sexual identity. In the mid-1990's, Dr. Diamond recruited a group of 90 women at gay pride parades, academic conferences on gender issues and other venues. About half of the women called themselves lesbians, a third identified as bisexual and the rest claimed no sexual orientation. In follow-up interviews over the last 10 years, Dr. Diamond has found that most of these women have had relationships both with men and women.

"Most of them seem to lean one way or the other, but that doesn't preclude them from having a relationship with the nonpreferred sex," she said. "You may be mostly interested in women but, hey, the guy who delivers the pizza is really hot, and what are you going to do?"

"There's a whole lot of movement and flexibility," Dr. Diamond added. "The fact is, we have very little research in this area, and a lot to learn."

[BradAndJanet]

Sometimes I think these researchers get so narrowly focused on the numbers that they lose sight of the big picture. They're trying to define bisexuality as 'equal attraction to both sexes', when in fact it's so much more complicated than that. So what if someone is four times more attracted to one sex than the other? Sexual orientation seems to be more of a continuum to me, but perhaps that's too 'fuzzy' for a good research paper (remember it's, "Publish or perish!")

For my own part, I'm very strongly attracted to women, but that doesn't stop me from having fantasies about men too. According to this article though, I'm really gay, and I don't understand how I could have had so much incredible sex with women all these years.

"The fact is, we have very little research in this area, and a lot to learn." Indeed, and that's probably the most accurate statement in the article.

-B

[sir_dragonfire]

Exactly to little information. What's the issue? why is it a major ordeal about true bisexual males? Double standard bullcrap & a few doctors trying make themselves popular!

[us2maybe]

I think that's true - people try to define bisexuality as a "tit for tat" 50/50 level of attraction. I don't think that is the case. I mean that would be like saying a guy who has a stronger attraction to blondes - is only attracted to blondes. It's not that simple to say if a person wants more than the other - they don't also from time to time want/are attracted to the other.

[mf69_98]

I have to agree with the other posts on this thread. I consider myself to be bisexual, but vastly prefer women to men. There is no way in hell I'd ever give up women for men, but then, I do enjoy oral sex with men when the situation avails itself.

[NaughtyKitten]

This study is completely unreliable.

Ok, I'm going to bring up another thread I remember reading, don't know what it was called, but it was about porn. This study was using porn movies to measure arousal. Well as we have discussed on that other thread, peoples reactions to porn are sometimes very different than their real life desires. They were showing lesbian porn to men to see if they were aroused by the sight of women. Some men aren't turned on by girl/girl play even if they like women. I enjoy and am turned on more by watching the women in porn than the men. But in real life, I am very turned on by men too.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the researchers went about measuring arousal in the wronog way. In fact, i'm not sure what the right way would be. It is such a personal issue. Any ideas on how they could actually study this in a more accurate way?

[gsu22]

As I said, I couldn't disagree with the study more....one part says that there's no evidence of a bisexual hint among men studied....I think they should examine a little more closely in a more "real" situations. Using porn arousal is one thing....being able to study sexual behavior in actual, real life situations is another.

Another statement I disagreed with was the statement that "there might be a lot less bisexual men than we think".....he then goes onto to rebut that saying that if thats the case why are so many things out there portrayed as bisexual with both men/women. I think there is a large number of men that are aroused by other men and as said before on these boards many times, are afraid for numerous reasons to either act upon it or admit it.... with double standards being at the top of that list.

I am aroused to a certain extent with men/sexual situations....oral sex being that situation....having not been able to fulfill this fantasy yet, I would almost enjoy inviting the person who conducted this study to see what happens when my first MM oral experience does occur....then true bisexuality would exist in me, at least...LOL....

[mf69_98]

They also probably did'nt take into consideration that people react to various types of porn in different ways, as well as, who is portrayed in the porn and what they're doing. I can get off on some porn and not on other porn - I personally don't like fake boobs on women - major turnoff for me - if there's porn with them in it, I wouldn't react like I would with women with real boobs and same with bi porn - depends on various things.

[TeamSoBe]

When that study was published it actually gave me some new insight into myself. I had always thought of myself as 'bisexual' but I've always been a little confused about it because I like girls so much more.

After I read the study when it came out I see a new possibility. I think now that I'm not bi at all, I'm just less homophobic and more open-minded about men being around during sex than most straight guys. Open-minded about coming into contact with men, giving them pleasure, whatever. But it's women that give me a physical arousal response. Just touching a woman's soft hair and looking at the outline of her boobs under clothes gives me a stiffie, whereas nothing on or about a man makes me physically hard. But I would happily suck a guy's dick if I thought he would enjoy it, I love giving male friends the pleasure of my wife's body, or turning them on by getting all porn star with their women. I'm curious and inquisitive about new male bodies that I see. I'm giving and open-minded enough that I would probably even consider taking an ass fucking if I thought the situation called for it and everybody was having fun. I can also look at any guy and have an opinion about whether he's hot or not. Some guys are hot enough that I have like an urge to touch them, at least while they're fucking my wife. Having an urge to touch a guy seems like it qualifies as being 'drawn to' the male gender even if it doesn't physically arouse me.

That makes me bi right? But a man alone doesn't make me physically hard, it's women that make me want to fuck. I've never once had even a fantasy that involved just men with no women around. So that makes me straight right?

So if I'm just an open-minded straight guy then that shows that even the Kinsey sliding scale isn't sufficient. Am I a two on that one-to-five scale or am I just a straight 'one' on the scale who likes to have fun? I think I'm a one who likes to have fun but that scale is pointless with me labeled "one: straight" and then talking about how open I am to taking an ass reaming to get a guy off.

Since that study and some self-examination I've decided that I'm "bi-playful" like a lot of swinger women who will play with women but really want the men in the end. I'll play with anybody in the room who wants me but only girls make me hard. Yes, labels are stupid, but I naturally want to know more about myself and guide how my life is affected by other peoples' homophobia.

[gsu22]

A FFF is great....I'm not opposed to anything....whatever floats the persons boat

[BookwormsInHeat]

I think the study is right on.

It's easy to criticize any study and say, "You're not measuring all the nuances of sexual chemistry." I think that's sort of a copout, and not how science works. Of course the model is simplified. Of course it doesn't measure the whole sexual experience.

But I think it measures something that resonates. There is a difference between men and women in bisexuality. It should be obvious to this crowd that there are far fewer professed male bisexuals than female. It's incredibly common in this crowd for women to be at least bi-curious, very uncommon for males.

Does anyone disagree that men are much more polarized in their sexual orientation than women? That's a huge finding, one that the study brings out, and probably represents a real difference between men and women in terms of potential for bisexuality.

[alicat69]

I studied Kinsey in College and I think that he is right on. There is (sp)quantitative, and qualitative ways of research. Not everything can be measured numerically, particularly when dealing with a persons way of feeling or thinking.
As far as gays saying: straight, gay, or lying. Well... they are rather biased too. Kind of like if someone who didn't understand homosexuality saying 'they just need to BE straight'. All are rather ignorant statements that kind of try to force others to think how they think.
I have encountered men who are just horney. They really don't care who they f*ck. That doesn't make them 'gay', because in a situation they do sexual acts with a man. That makes them horney or bi. How ever THEY choose to define it.
As another point, my husband has a 22 y/o sister who conciders herself 'gay' though she has never even been close to going 'down town'. I recently had my first ff experience, I can't wait to be like 'ha ha...I'm a bigger lesbian than you are'... but really I'm not . I prefer men 80-20 to women. It has to be an extra extra special girl, where as I think a lot of guys are hot enough to do.

[gsu22]

Couldn't agree more Ali....there are times when I'm so horny that I just want "something"......hot woman...pussy, tits, MM oral, whatever!