Bi couples, not just bi women--where are they?

[DoubleL]

Admittedly we have only been looking seriously for people for a few days, but it's already become pretty clear that if you are a bi couple as we are it is hard to find other ones. Most of the listings we find on swappernet and SWS feature a bi woman and a straight man--I know there are lots of things at play here including a healthy dose of homophobia, but this is very frustrating since we are searching for couples who are like us not only physically and in mindset, but also in sexual orientation. Has anyone else noticed this? Is there someplace specific we should be looking or just watch carefully for the few and far between fully bi couples? Is this different in different parts of the country (we're searching GA and FL, but soon we'll be going to Seattle/Tacoma, so....)?

[TeamSoBe]

Yeah, welcome to swinging. That's one of the big silly double standards. Everybody want a bi girl but bi men are generally not welcome. Plenty of people won't go anywhere near a couple if the guy even admits to being curious. "Bi guy" is high on the list of negatives that your local community will pass around when they talk about the two of you if you're open about it.

It would be nice to think that there are areas that are backward about this and other areas that are more progressive, but I live in South Beach. If it's like that here then I kind of think it's like that everywhere.

Two bi couples together can be mind-blowing but it's really hard to find the right couple. If you guy really is curious then I suggest looking for a single bi guy for an MMF. Plenty of very nice and very hot single bi guys are very willing to play by whatever rules you lay down just to have an interesting night with a couple.

[DoubleL]

That is really depressing. Why is it such a big deal/gossip-worthy? I mean, personally, if people are willing to write us off without even knowing us because we both swing both ways then those people clearly aren't the kinds of people we want to spend time with anyway, but I am curious to know why it's such a big deal. Is it just the homophobia aspect of it?

[misterbates]

Welcome to swingland!!!

Yes most couples list the male as straight,..... if your ad has both of you listed as bi you will be surprised how many supposedly "Str8" males and couples will contact you and express their "Bi" side. It's a pathetic double standard in this lifestyle that drives me bonkers!!!Most of the people that respond to our ads on Swing Lifestyle or Swappernet have the male listed as str8 ( some even express many times throught the profile how "STR8" the man is and "OH NO WE DONT WANT NO BI MALES!!!"...then they write us and say they are interested!!!!.... but they always say "oh yea he's bi or is really bi curious and its so hard to find bi couples" Really?? we dont find it that hard,we get responses every day!!..The tough part is actually finding sincere people that we are attracted to!!

I will give you a peice of advice though...pictures bring in responses to the ads...dont have to be face shots...but pics really change the amount of people who will write you. And list your male half as bi or bi curious...you'll be surprised how many "bi" couples come out of the woodwork!

Take care and keep looking they are out there everywhere!!!!

Misterbates
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[DoubleL]

Yeah, we have photos in our swappernet ad (DOUBLEL124570)... for the first couple days we didn't and there weren't many replies, but now that people can see us... . Anyway, yes, I was wondering about the "straight" men who write to us. I was confused, I admit. Maybe there is something else other than "he likes guys" that we wrote in our profile that might be violating some invisible rule we haven't learned yet?

[rjrjr]

I have wondered the same thing. We are just starting out, but my DH being bi-curious is just as exciting to me as any "girl on girl action" might be to him! I have noticed in scoping out boards and personals that most men are quick to denounce any possibility of m/m play. It's a shame that people are so closed minded. Good luck to you, and to us, I suppose

[misterbates]

.(Quote) I was confused, I admit. Maybe there is something else other than "he likes guys" that we wrote in our profile that might be violating some invisible rule we haven't learned yet?(Quote)


No you are doing the right thing....one thing that is a big plus is honesy!...We find that being up front about what we want means that we dont get into situations that would be uncomfortable...to say the least!

We dont require "Bi" male play but if its something all agree on then it's a great plus but we also dont want homophobes who freak out when they find out that i can be bi in the right situation....(been there done that don't wanna go there again!!)

Keep the profile the way it is...you'll find that the responses you get will be from those who... in principle anyway.. are what you are looking for...and who knows ...maybe even be what you want to make a connection with...

Mister B

[TeamSoBe]

After a couple of years of dealing with this issue we have settled on listing me as straight in our ads. Too many people blacklisting us and not enough into meeting us with me listed as curious. If a guy (or his girl, more commonly) asks if I'm into guys then I might or might not be honest about it depending on the situation.

Here's an example of negative fallout: we went on vacation to LA last summer. Met a couple we thought was pretty hot. I wanted the girl BADLY and had no interest in the guy at all. He turned out to just be generally unfuckable so we call it of with them. We were at an on-premises club and she had been sitting there with me watching some action and turning me on asking me what all I liked that I was enjoying. Asked me a few pointed questions about whether some guy blocking the view of a girl was a buzzkill for me. As it turns out that question apparently had a correct answer and I made the mistake of answering truthfully that it was two sexy people screwing and I just liked seeing both of them getting it on. The guy took it badly that he got rejected (for being an unfuckable asshole loser) and apparently found out afterward from her about what had gone on between us. Called my house in Florida a few times and sent a few amazing emails that I couldn't even handle keeping calling me a 'faggot' and a 'queer' and accusing us both of wasting their time so that I could trick him into gay sex and I'm going to Fag Hell when I die and etc, etc, etc. I wanted his girl SO badly and barely noticed his existence, it's pretty funny. Problem is that this couple is really well-connected in LA and in that club in particular. Now I'm apparently known throughout the surprisingly small LA swinger community as a fag purv who tries to jump men. We won't bother to visit that club again. We had to drop the web site account from the site where we met him because he went nuts there with warnings that I'm a big drooling lecherous homo.

So just be careful who you're honest to, is my point. That closet is there for a reason, use it when you have to. Swinging is not the liberation for curious men that it is for curious women.

[jcbicouple]

Originally Posted by TeamSoBe

So just be careful who you're honest to, is my point. That closet is there for a reason, use it when you have to. Swinging is not the liberation for curious men that it is for curious women.

To each their own, but we have to completely disagree with this advice. If you start out being honest about what you are looking for, you have a much better chance of avoiding the homophobic people like teamsobe referred to. We usually blow off the many guys and couples that contact us saying they are bi when their profile says they are straight. There are a few that we have talked breifly to, but for the most part we feel that you need to look for what you and your spouse are interested in and the idea of someone starting out a swinging encounter by being in the closet is a real turn off.
DoubleL, may we suggest going back through our many posts? You will find that although bi males appear to be a rarity, in reality there are a ton of bi males out there, just take a look at the polls that have been taken on male bisexuality. We are a both bi couple ourselves and just like others here have posted, we get a LOT of e mail from supposedly straight males. We have also found that since we removed our photos the e mails are considerably less.

[TeamSoBe]

I understand that side of it because I used to think that also. I think that it has a lot to do with your area and with how you go about meeting people. We socialize in public at parties a lot and I'm not going to go around announcing to people that I'm bi. Being all open about it with the random strangers you interact with is the equivalent of broadcasting it and that's a spectacular way to get shunned and make it pointless that you left your house in the first place.

I have experimented with all kinds of different ad configurations over the last couple of years for online sites, and if 100% of our swinging social life were meeting couples individually through web sites then I might be more inclined to just be up front about it. Sometimes meeting drunk guys at parties who recognize you from your photo after they already have read on a web site that you think men are sexy is just not a good scene either. I have way too many stories about this. For me the idealism got slowly eroded away by living through shitty story after shitty story, and now I'm just in the closet with swingers until I know them enough to trust them.

The swinging community is just not a community that encourages out-in-the-open sexual liberation for men. Simple fact. There are plenty of communities that do so it's not a big deal. I have had much more happiness after realizing that for me swinging is not about sexual liberation, it's about having a bunch of fun fucking girls, and watching girls get on each other. If we happen to meet a couple where the guy is sexy and open minded then yaaaay, bonus.

[JustAskJulie]

I think bi couples are more common than it is let on. Because of the stigma attached to bi males most bi couples tend to hide the truth of their orientation or disguise it (as someone pointed out in another thread) behind vague terms.

I think that given time you will find that if you are honest in your own ad that you will be contacted by others whose orientatino matches your own but they might not be up front about it in their own ads.

[ggb]

I agree. I am very bi-curious while my wife is mostly straight. It's hard to find others like us. We are in the Chicago burbs and you would think that there are more out here. I agree with you that there might be a fear of the homophobia issue but I think people have some thoughts but never follow up on it.

[gsu22]

I've been trying to find a "both bi couple" forever and its been difficult. Like it was mentioned in previous posts, the male seems to always be labled str8 but I'm sure many of them are bi/bicurious.

My fantasy of late has been to find a bi couple where the male is curious only...just like myself with no previous bisexual experiences......so we could explore on one another without having to worry about anything because we'd both be bi "virgins".

[us2maybe]

**Foremost I would like to say in the following that if you think this is aimed at you, don't take it personal as I issue the word some quite frequently, and am not in any means making generalizations about male/female sexuality**
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I have what I've been told an "unconventional" view on human sexuality, I could be talking to a gay guy or straight guy, straight girl, bi or gay girl and usually they'd soon as say that that's "unusual"...but here it goes.

Its my belief that a MAJORITY of humans are in fact to some degree bisexual, and only extreme exceptions falling on either side of the purely 100% hetero / 100% homosexual spectrum.

Religious arguments aside there is one thing about human sexuality that seems to be obvious and it seems either everyone here or in the "vanilla" life deal with it - the effect of people being socialized/conditioned and its effects on their sexual identity.

A woman could be taught that to do (a), (b), and (c) make her "loose" or "not a woman"...but if those impulses are still there, obviously they were innate and continue to be a core part of her sexual identity. One can repress it all they want, but its still there. And we see this everyday when people bring taboo fantasies to fruition. Interracial sex a prime example in that to have sex with a black male was set forth as "defilement"...and now there is the wide phenomenon of not only interracial sex but even "breeding". Clearly in this case, even if no previous attraction to black men existed - the mere restriction placed upon it has established the fetish for some women who see it as being a "bad girl".

Similarly, with men we are conditioned/socialized to validate our manhood...and MUCH of it centers around from the time you and friends start getting peach fuzz and pimples. From preschool we define our relationship with other men, based on how we view women. We first shun girls, and their kisses when we're prepubscent. If you were that unlucky lad who had a girl kiss him in grade school you'd soon find your friends saying "ewww, gross!". Then suddenly they're appealing again, and if you said to your friends who once shuddered at the thought of holding hands with a girl that "you weren't interested in them" you might get the same "ewww, gross" or questionable looks that you did if you kissed them years prior. But the irony in that is (and this is the part some people don't like), men's response to women was in response to the outcome it would have on their relationship with other men. If the norm to establish yourself as "one of the guys" is to not kiss girls...most guys do it. If the norm to establish yourself as "one of the guys" is to kiss girls...most guys do it. In that we tend to validate our manhood by our prowess in relation to women.

The implicit meaning in our society (i believe) is that women are still seen in general as "not as strong" as men. My only conclusion as to why some people are so adamantly homophobic is that their "manhood" is reaffirmed in their ability to be with a woman who on some level they see as "not equal to a man" who could possibly debase a man's "manhood" or strength. So often we hear men say "that they don't want to be put in a threatening position with gay/bi men"...but my question is "what about them threatens you": Is it that he has a dick too? Is it that he could "take" you? Or is it because were you to be sexually involved with him in some way that you wouldn't necessarily entitled to the gender/sex role of "dominant"? That's where I think the issue lies - in that for so long heterosexuality for men translated beyond sheer sexual preference - and for some was an entitlement to claims of "gender superiority". Were it not for male acceptance of lesbians and "bi-chicks" do you think it'd be such a common staple in the porn industry? Well, granted that cunnilingus still doesn't catch on for more than 30 seconds in a typical flick...probably not. Heterosexuality for *some* men functions like an oligarchy where sexual priviledges are exclusive to "members" of the genders.

With that said, I don't doubt some people are purely heterosexual anymore that I don't doubt some people are purely homosexual - and similarly I find people who are bisexual to be those who despite whatever social norms,standards, conditioning maintained some level sexual attraction to both genders. But what I think is there is a LARGE majority of people who if unmolested or influenced by societal constraints, mores, norms would have probably been bisexual. That's not to say some people aren't genuinely straight...just that some people who identify as "straight" were influenced to associate negative feelings with anything that wasn't straight and therefore curbed the behavior (but not the desires) within themselves.

But how this plays out for women is different. Some women who are bi would never dream of being with a bi male because to them they've been conditioned to classify a male not on the basis of his personality, but on some level on the basis of his sexuality. Its no different essentially from a man saying "if you're not straight, you're not a real man". And then there are some women who wouldn't think him less a man - but at the same time just aren't sexually aroused by bisexual males. But the interesting thing is in this society, women are still set to sexual constraints that men aren't - and what I find common among bisexual women is they lay claim to a certain sexual autonomy ...they can "have who they want, when they want", whereas generations prior it was you wed, you birth, you rear, you die. Or if you fell out of that construction you ran the risk of being ousted socially. Now however women find it easier to be sexual with other women, which for them may be a emotionally beneficial relation - where as for some of their "100% straight male 'I'd never touch a dick' partners" its more of another manesfestation of a guy being able to witness/lay claim to sexual superiority over women. Not to say that there aren't guys who are genuinely concerned about the sexual, emotional benefits of their partner being bi, for me personally if my mate chose that route I'd see it no differently from her wanting a MFM...but truth be told there is the faction of men who think about the FMF fantasy only as a means of the women pleasing their wants,desires and re-inforcing their "manhood" - nothing else. And there are some women who will gladly oblige because to them they may have been socialized that they should want a man that is "manly and verile"...what proves that more than him being able to tango with two women at once? The thing that is interesting however is, if men were the "sexually repressed" in society...would it be more acceptable for them to be bisexual?

Now again, however this is coming from a male in a couple who identifies as 95% - 99.5% straight. I've not been in a bi situation, nor have I ever actually fantasized about it - but on the other hand I know that in this society sexuality is not always a concrete absolute - but rather a behavior in response to whatever existing social/cultural environment. I can't imagine the scenario to come to place, but most people when highly aroused there are many things that they wouldn't otherwise do that in an uninhibited state would probably do.

[guitarlover]

In the stories section of this website, I recently posted a long story. It's called 'Our Sexual Re-awakening' and I hope that it will be released by Julie or some other web master here soon. I hope that you'll read it if and when it becomes available to you.
In my story, I wrote about the fact that I did indeed have some same sex relations with a couple of close friends when I was very young. Although we boys really preferred girls, at that age girls just weren't available for sexual exploration. But, we discovered that sharing it with each other was gratifying, and I discovered that I enjoyed giving pleasure as much as I enjoyed receiving it. I haven't encountered a same sex situation in decades, but, after writing my story and remembering those encounters so long ago, I had to admit that they were extremely pleasant then. So, once I was able to get over homophobic fears I wonder whether I should change my 'straight' description to 'bi-curious'? I mean, it is hypocritical for guys to love watching two women get it on, but, the thought of two guys is thought to be repulsive. The social stigma is sad, to say the least. I'd much rather see two men love each other, than kill each other.
P.S. My woman was not turned off by my admission of my past same sex play. God, how I love her!