A single male's humiliating experience

lobo0553 · 08-11-2002, 01:18 AM

Last night(Friday night) a local club held their weekly singles & couples night. As I'm a sm I decided to go & check it out. I arrived & was welcomed by the host couple. I was their first guest so we spent about half an hour chatting alone. Another couple showed up along with another single guy followed by 2 more couples. This is all that showed up on this particular night but the host couple had told me that they usually got a better turnout.
Anyway, one couple left early which left 3 couples, myself & the other single. Here is where it got interesting. One couple went upstairs into the play area. From the sounds she was obviously enjoying herself & so being new I asked the host if singles were allowed upstairs. He said only if I was invited by a couple. At this point the other single came back to the table with the hostess. They had been dancing. Then all three(host,hostess,& single) went upstairs. This left one couple dancing, & me, sitting at the table by myself. The dancing couple finished their dance & then they too headed upstairs.
I was left by myself and hoping that someone would come back down & invite me up. No one did. One couple left after a half hour or so. They didn't dare look at me. I played pool for an hour or so when the host came down, fixed himself a sandwich, & then headed right back up. He too didn't dare look at me.
Needless to say, I felt humiliated! I have never felt so hurt my entire life. I certainly don't intend to return to that club. Here is my question: Is this a common occurance? And what would possess poeple to treat another person like this? If the issue was that no one wanted to play with me, then how hard would it have been to simply invite me upstairs to watch? After an hour and a half, I just decided that I wasn't going upstairs no matter what, and I left. I'm still very upset as I write this some 24 hours after the fact.)

TeamSoBe · 08-11-2002, 04:02 PM

Hey there, we're sorry to hear that you had such a terrible experience, nobody deserves such a nasty blow to the ego. Hopefully it won't always be like that for you, here are some tidbits from the other side that might help.

The thing that you have to remember is that if you're single and you show up at a party full of couples then you're entering the domain of the relationship. You're not in a relationship and you're not on the same wavelength that the couples are on, so you stand a pretty good chance of not being invited into any of the fun. It's interesting to see the story from your point of view because we have experienced the same event but from the couples' point of view.

Pretty much all of our swinging experience has been at small private parties like the one that you're talking about, and I have seen this kind of thing happen all the time. I have to admit that we have excluded single guys in pretty much the same way that you described getting excluded. We generally literally lock the door to keep uninvited people out of bedrooms when we pick our play partners. On at least one occasion that I'm aware of then entire party of couples moved into the bedroom at a house and locked the door, which left one single guy sitting alone in the living room. He was pretty upset about it and I'm not proud of hurting his feelings, but he just wasn't invited into the fun and locking him out was the only way that he got the message. He was completely oblivious to body language and more obvious hints, so he ended up on the other side of a locked door.

The way that it works from our point of view as a couple is that we show up looking for some fun, but our relationship is the most important thing going on. The whole night is all played out from the point of view of the couple constantly communicating among themselves about what each other are interested in doing, and what things the couple might agree to do for fun. Any time that you meet another couple or single you're bouncing signals back and forth, 'are you interested?', 'do you mind if I'm interested in him/her?', 'are you okay with me flirting with him/her?', 'how far do you want to do with this particular situation?'. You might not realize how obvious it is that you're on a completely different wavelength, but it's very obvious. Half of the fun for the couples sometimes is tuning into the relationship vibe of another couple and watching them as they communicate among themselves about how far they are interested in going with you.

It would be good to remember that it's not just that you're a single guy, we end up excluding a lot of single girls too just because they aren't on the relationship wavelength like we are. Single people require more of a negotiation because most single people are only potential fun for one half of the couple, and the other half will feel threatened. Couples are a much easier decision.

It also isn't because you aren't hot enough. An *extremely* hot artist guy hit on our female half last night, and if his attitude had been different then he would have gotten laid. He got no pussy last night though, because he completely ignored our male half when he made his advance. He's on the single-guy-in-a-bar-hitting-on-chicks wavelength, we were looking for fun within our comfort zone that wouldn't be in any way dangerous to our relationshp. Single guys are not a problem for us, we actually enjoy them, but single guys with no respect for the underlying relationship are just not going to get any. The really hot artist guy last night would have been a blast to fuck, and our male half was fully prepared to support it even though the guy was completely straight, but his attitude got him listed on the denied list after about five seconds. You might not have been as disrespectful as he was but you are still clearly operating on a completely different level and that's pretty obvious to a couple. You're thinking that you're at an orgy looking for a willing partner, they are thinking that they are in a potentially fun situation looking to add some positive kinky experiences to their relationship.

A lot of it also has to do with the comfort level that we mentioned. Most likely what happened is that the relationship-oriented couples discovered some potential for some fun, but they were only comfortable doing what they wanted in 'private', just with the participants in the room. Single guy observers have a way of sticking hands and other body parts where they shouldn't be and just generally trying as hard as they can to push the envelope. Husbands and committed boyfriends are less likely to do that. Even if you aren't that kind of single guy, they still feel the danger that you might be. In the interest of protecting the comfort zone, single guys end up excluded. Everybody in the room knows that the fun might not happen at all if the audience is too big, otherwise they wouldn't have gone seeking private rooms in the first place. To protect the possibility of some fun happening, they protect the situation against any potential disruption, which in your case was you.

Also, some people just don't like an audience. Our female half is very opposed to single guys that don't put in the groundwork to find themselves their own freaky girls who then show up at kinky parties trying to see her naked. She pretty actively resents that sort of thing. It only takes one or two people that feel that way in the room for you to get locked out.

Our only real advice on the matter is that if you go to meet a bunch of freaky couples and you want to be included in their fun then you have to tune your brain to their frequency. Realize that you are basically an accessory and not really a full participant as long as you're there without a girl. As an accessory you have to be respectful and aware of the couple vibe going on around you, and the relationship-oriented mind set. If everybody gets the feeling that you're not at least respectful of that point of view then you're not going to get laid.

ciscosv · 08-12-2002, 03:16 PM

No offense, but you cant expect to jump right in. Just because swingers enjoy to have some swingin fun does not mean that every single guy is going to be invited into the fun or even invited to watch. I do sympathise with you, but it sounds like you had some false expectations. Remember that single men are abundant and you have to work your way in so to speak.

**Alura** · 08-12-2002, 04:04 PM

You were lucky. If we went to a club that allowed single men and one of them showed interest in Mrs. Alura, (You can bet one would!) she would be on her way out the door and I'd have to hurry to avoid walking home. She's pretty adamant that single men offer nothing to the lifestyle and shouldn't be there. Perhaps you've read some of her posts on this subject.

Mr. Alura

[ 08-12-2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Alura ]

***JustAskJulie*** · 08-13-2002, 01:14 PM

First off, TeamSoBe made some excellent points for you. Something that wasn't brought up tho was the fact that the second single guy (from what you said) came to the party with one of the couples (not alone as you did). That gave him an "in" so to speak. He already had a couple there that he knew and was pretty much guaranteed to play.

As far as your comment that you should have been invited up 'at least to watch'. Did it not ever occur to you that not everyone likes to be watched? I don't want some single guy standing over me stroking his dick while I play. If they aren't interested in playing with you then they have no reason to invite you regardless.

I'm sorry you went through this and had such a bad experience but I think you may have gone in with too high of expectations. If I had been in your shoes I would have left much ealier (like when I realized I was the only one left downstairs). As far as the host and others ignoring you when they came back down. That was their way of giving you the hint that they thought you should already be gone.

I hate to be so blunt about it and I hope it's not just adding salt to the wound but that's pretty much the way it is.

Your best shot at having any sort of chance is to get to know people on a one on one basis rather than just showing up and expecting something to happen with people that you don't even know.

curious24 · 08-13-2002, 08:23 PM

at least the other couples could have been nice enough to at least tell the single guy that he should just go home. some people just don't pick up on body language or anything and IMO it would have been the nice thing to do. but instead you all just let the one person sit out there and feel like an ass.. that to me just isn't right... someone should be "man" enough to go tell him to go home or something.. i mean he was man enough to show up by himself at a party where he really didn't know anyone.. and IMO there is no reason to treat someone who is acting nice so rudely.. now if they are acting rudely towards you all i'm sure most wouldn't have a problem kicking them out and being rude back.

this just erks me how some people can act...

one last thing i would have to say is that i do agree with a single guy who shows up shouldn't expect anything at all. not even being able to watch.. but if he's acting nice and respectful of others they should return the favor and tell him that it would be better for him to just leave.

TeamSoBe · 08-13-2002, 09:34 PM

Curious24, your comment reminds me of another story of ours. We're not very experienced as 'swingers' but as you can probably gather we have had an awful lot of sex with our friends.

This other story is similar though, single guy shows up to a party that takes a turn to the freaky side. Everybody is having their fun, single guy wants to participate, nobody really wants him around, everybody tries to make that clear with body language. This particular single guy just wasn't getting the hint because he was obviously just on a completely different wavelength than the rest of us and didn't understand the vibe that was going on. He just thought that we was at an orgy, probably because there were a few single girls there too that nobody really minded because they were targets instead of predators.

So he wasn't getting the hint and he was getting more and more aggressive. I had the same feeling that you did, Curious, that somebody should just talk to him.

That turned out to be a big mistake. I (male half here) took it on myself to talk to him because everybody else was afraid to. I explained that he was being so aggressive that the girls were really turned off by him, and that they were trying to get away from him. I told him that he was wasting his time and that he should probably just give it a rest.

He became VERY irate and nearly punched me in the middle of the party, then he stayed at the party and spent the rest of the night bitching about me specifically, LOUDLY. He was very pissed off that I would have the nerve to 'tell him to stay away from my girls'. Honestly that was what I was doing, but he sort of missed the overall point.

None of the women could possibly have talked to him about it because he would have taken a private conversation as an advance, he really was that creepy and overbearing. Since none of them could, it had to be one of the men, which he took as a territorial, alpha-male thing. Of course if he had understood the whole swinger concept then he wouldn't have been in alpha-male mode, but if he had understood then he wouldn't have needed the speech in the first place. I really don't see that there was any way out of the situation for us that didn't result in his feelings being hurt, but at least if we had all been passive-aggressive and avoided him then I wouldn't have been running around afraid of getting beaten up, he's a really big guy and he could have really pummeled me if he hadn't decided otherwise.

We still see this guy socially every once in a while, that party was about two years ago. He continues to hate me because of that one incident even today, and he is constantly trying to turn our other friends against me in particular and us as a couple because of the whole thing. I made an enemy for life by trying to be chivalrous and do the right thing. Needless to say, my policy now is to just lock single guys out in the living room by themselves and let them deal with their own issues on their own.

Here's a fun thought, especially for those of you in the Tampa, FL area. The guy that I was talking about in this message is married. He was at our party without his wife knowing about it. We know because he brags pretty openly and loudly about it that he goes about twice a week to a couple of different swing clubs in the Tampa area without his wife knowing about it. He's creepy, he's ugly, he's clueless, he contributes nothing, he's an ass, and he's wandering around swinger clubs trying as hard as he can to fuck other peoples' drunk wives while his own wife is oblivious at home.

His example is why we never attend any sort of swinger event of any kind that allows single guys.

Cheekyimp1 · 08-13-2002, 09:35 PM

I agree with curious completely. He shouldn't have expected anything at all but being ignored completely instead of being told that he should go home is bad manners. Put yourselves in his place. And curious is also right in that not everybody picks up on body language. lol Gods know my hubby doesn't. There is one thing though he really should have left after he hadn't been invited upstairs at all. Hope things get better for you.

Fox n Hound · 08-13-2002, 10:25 PM

This is another example of why we as couple do not want to go to the clubs, when there is a click of people everyone else is an outsider. If you can not understand how this person must of felt, well I hope you never do. I bet if it had been a cute single female there would not have been anyone left down stairs. People in swinging should be more understanding than those who do not.
What is the difference between a club and a meat market, in the meat market if you want it and can afford it you can have it.
Fox N Hound

curious24 · 08-13-2002, 11:32 PM

TeamSoBe that's an awful story! but that is the exception that i was talking about.. when someone like that is being a jerk IMO that is when you can act rudely towards them etc... and that guy you are talking about.. wow.. that's bad.. is it usually that bad all the time?

hmmm... but if a guy is nice and respectful of others i do think it's the right thing to do to just go over to him nicely and tell him that "sorry, you're welcome to stay and hang out but just so you know we are all going into the other room and it would probably be better if you left. You might have better luck else where. However, it was nice to meet you."

Something to that effect wouldn't be rude and i know for myself i would be really grateful to those who did that.. i would have even more respect for them... but if they totally ignored me and were just being jerks to me after i had been nothing but nice.. i wouldn't ever want to talk to any of those couples again.. b/c those aren't the type of people i would want to associate with.. and i don't know many who want to be around thoughtless people..

anyway just my .02

OhioCouple · 08-13-2002, 11:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by curious24:
at least the other couples could have been nice enough to at least tell the single guy that he should just go home. some people just don't pick up on body language or anything and IMO it would have been the nice thing to do. but instead you all just let the one person sit out there and feel like an ass.. that to me just isn't right... someone should be "man" enough to go tell him to go home or something.. i mean he was man enough to show up by himself at a party where he really didn't know anyone.. and IMO there is no reason to treat someone who is acting nice so rudely.. now if they are acting rudely towards you all i'm sure most wouldn't have a problem kicking them out and being rude back.

this just erks me how some people can act...

one last thing i would have to say is that i do agree with a single guy who shows up shouldn't expect anything at all. not even being able to watch.. but if he's acting nice and respectful of others they should return the favor and tell him that it would be better for him to just leave.<hr /></blockquote>Curious24,

This is coming from a female point of view. First off I don't agree that others should have the responibility to be "compassionate" enuf to let anyone know they were not welcome into their sexual domain. That would be similar to being at a party/club with 20 or so couples or singles and going up to them and say.."Sorry, but you are out of luck tonight, we personally don't care to entertain you so you should leave." Sorta like shake their hands and say "Glad you could make it but your party is over." You should have just left when you were left out. Julie made a valid point. Not all couples wish to have themselves being viewed in the midst of passion.

I know I certainly do not desire to have other viewing us in sexual action. First and foremost the distraction of having a non-participant in the sexual act just ruins the whole experience for me. Secondly, I have been to clubs where they have open areas for others to view and there is nothing worse than walking by a half of a dozen of males drooling and whacking off their cocks. That to me is downright disgusting. I may as well have been watching a poorly made '70's porno flick. Didn't like them then and I surely don't like the front row seat. Granted there are some that may enjoy being on public display but I certainly do not and will not allow it in anyway shape or form.

Lobo, My suggestion would be that you attempt to get to know some of the couples that attend there and over the course of time, you "may" be invited into their private sessions at some point. It all depends on your compatablitiy with them. IMO, your expectations were pretty high for a first time encounter. I certainly understand how difficult it is for a single male, but remember you as a single, especially one who is new to the people you are around, as a rule will have to prove yourself before getting an invitation to a BBQ much less an invite to the bedroom.

Lori

[ 08-13-2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: OhioCouple ]

curious24 · 08-14-2002, 12:18 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by OhioCouple:
Curious24,

This is coming from a female point of view. First off I don't agree that others should have the responibility to be "compassionate" enuf to let anyone know they were not welcome into their sexual domain. That would be similar to being at a party/club with 20 or so couples or singles and going up to them and say.."Sorry, but you are out of luck tonight, we personally don't care to entertain you so you should leave." Sorta like shake their hands and say "Glad you could make it but your party is over." You should have just left when you were left out. Julie made a valid point. Not all couples wish to have themselves being viewed in the midst of passion.<hr /></blockquote>IMO a swingers party is just a tad different from a "meet and greet" type of party. And I don't think you can actually compare a "meet and greet" type of party to a swinger party.

Maybe I'm just a different type of guy but i would almost expect someone to at least say "Sorry, but you are out of luck tonight, we personally don't care to entertain you so you should leave." That wouldn't bother me at all. I would say thank you and nice meeting you etc and I would politely leave so you all could enjoy the rest of the night. I really don't see anything wrong with that.. but I do see something wrong with just flat out ignoring the person. I've been the the one who was left out and no one said anything to me. Even if it is someone at the office asking everyone around me to go to lunch with them and them not asking me to lunch and I'm sitting right there! That to me is just rude, if you don't want me to go to lunch with you all either A) say so to me or B) ask everyone else when I'm not around or in private.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I know I certainly do not desire to have other viewing us in sexual action. <hr /></blockquote>This is totally understandable. and I do think it was totally wrong for lobo to expect to get to watch. He shouldn't have expected anything of that nature.

OhioCouple · 08-14-2002, 02:09 AM

Curious24,

Perhaps I misunderstood something here, but from what I read Lobo had gone to a club. In our experiences we have found them to be very cliquish (sp). Generally if you do not *know* someone there you end up becoming a *wall flower*, sitting in a corner and just watching the action around you. (Speaking only of the three clubs we have been to). Unfortunately for Lobo he attended on a night where very few other people decided to come in.

A piece of advice that was given to us was to show up early and introduce yourself to others, get to know a little about them etc. It seems that he attempted do that. Lobo unfortunately didn't have many to introduce himself to and perhaps he was just not compatable to them or they already had a pre-set idea of whom they were going to play with. Based on our experiences, most are meeting with established sexual partners.

We did tho attend a club once on our own and using the advice given, we arrived early and introduced ourselves to others. We met several people and made some new friends. Doesn't mean we will play in the future, but at least we established some sort of connection and have begun the ground work. IMHO I think that most swingers need to get to know you in order to include or invite you into their private area.

Just my opinion tho.

Lori

ciscosv · 08-14-2002, 11:58 AM

I do notice people grouped together at clubs. The first time we attended a club, we were there more to watch. We spoke to a couple of couples that sat at the same table. I participated in their sexy dance contest and had a blast. We ended up leaving early because thier was another party to go to that night. We were "ignored" in some ways, but it was because we really did not introduce ourselves to other couples there. After attending more dances, we have gotten to know quite a few people there. From our observations you cant sit there expecting to get noticed. You have to participate and interact at any function. I dont think it was rude for anyone to ignore lobo. If you think that is wrong, then that is your problem. How can you be noticed if you are not interacting with people?

I also do not want some single guy/s standing around us while we are playing. I guess that is why I dont care to go to the zoo because I could understand how the animals feel. This is our sex life and you have to be "invited" to play with us. Maybe that sounds stuck up and know that we are not alone when we say that.

The best advice to give would be to meet some couples that would escort you to a party or any other swinger function.

TeamSoBe. You crack me up!

OhioCouple · 08-14-2002, 12:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ciscosv:


I also do not want some single guy/s standing around us while we are playing. I guess that is why I dont care to go to the zoo because I could understand how the animals feel.<hr /></blockquote>ciscosv,

That is "Exactly" what it reminds me of! Well said! <img border="0" alt="[ROFL]" title="" src="graemlins/rofl.gif" />

Lori

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08-11-2002, 01:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
lobo0553 Registered Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4 Location: edmonton	A single male's humiliating experience Last night(Friday night) a local club held their weekly singles & couples night. As I'm a sm I decided to go & check it out. I arrived & was welcomed by the host couple. I was their first guest so we spent about half an hour chatting alone. Another couple showed up along with another single guy followed by 2 more couples. This is all that showed up on this particular night but the host couple had told me that they usually got a better turnout. Anyway, one couple left early which left 3 couples, myself & the other single. Here is where it got interesting. One couple went upstairs into the play area. From the sounds she was obviously enjoying herself & so being new I asked the host if singles were allowed upstairs. He said only if I was invited by a couple. At this point the other single came back to the table with the hostess. They had been dancing. Then all three(host,hostess,& single) went upstairs. This left one couple dancing, & me, sitting at the table by myself. The dancing couple finished their dance & then they too headed upstairs. I was left by myself and hoping that someone would come back down & invite me up. No one did. One couple left after a half hour or so. They didn't dare look at me. I played pool for an hour or so when the host came down, fixed himself a sandwich, & then headed right back up. He too didn't dare look at me. Needless to say, I felt humiliated! I have never felt so hurt my entire life. I certainly don't intend to return to that club. Here is my question: Is this a common occurance? And what would possess poeple to treat another person like this? If the issue was that no one wanted to play with me, then how hard would it have been to simply invite me upstairs to watch? After an hour and a half, I just decided that I wasn't going upstairs no matter what, and I left. I'm still very upset as I write this some 24 hours after the fact.)

08-11-2002, 04:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
TeamSoBe Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 507 Location: South Beach, Florida Status: M. Half of Couple	Hey there, we're sorry to hear that you had such a terrible experience, nobody deserves such a nasty blow to the ego. Hopefully it won't always be like that for you, here are some tidbits from the other side that might help. The thing that you have to remember is that if you're single and you show up at a party full of couples then you're entering the domain of the relationship. You're not in a relationship and you're not on the same wavelength that the couples are on, so you stand a pretty good chance of not being invited into any of the fun. It's interesting to see the story from your point of view because we have experienced the same event but from the couples' point of view. Pretty much all of our swinging experience has been at small private parties like the one that you're talking about, and I have seen this kind of thing happen all the time. I have to admit that we have excluded single guys in pretty much the same way that you described getting excluded. We generally literally lock the door to keep uninvited people out of bedrooms when we pick our play partners. On at least one occasion that I'm aware of then entire party of couples moved into the bedroom at a house and locked the door, which left one single guy sitting alone in the living room. He was pretty upset about it and I'm not proud of hurting his feelings, but he just wasn't invited into the fun and locking him out was the only way that he got the message. He was completely oblivious to body language and more obvious hints, so he ended up on the other side of a locked door. The way that it works from our point of view as a couple is that we show up looking for some fun, but our relationship is the most important thing going on. The whole night is all played out from the point of view of the couple constantly communicating among themselves about what each other are interested in doing, and what things the couple might agree to do for fun. Any time that you meet another couple or single you're bouncing signals back and forth, 'are you interested?', 'do you mind if I'm interested in him/her?', 'are you okay with me flirting with him/her?', 'how far do you want to do with this particular situation?'. You might not realize how obvious it is that you're on a completely different wavelength, but it's very obvious. Half of the fun for the couples sometimes is tuning into the relationship vibe of another couple and watching them as they communicate among themselves about how far they are interested in going with you. It would be good to remember that it's not just that you're a single guy, we end up excluding a lot of single girls too just because they aren't on the relationship wavelength like we are. Single people require more of a negotiation because most single people are only potential fun for one half of the couple, and the other half will feel threatened. Couples are a much easier decision. It also isn't because you aren't hot enough. An extremely hot artist guy hit on our female half last night, and if his attitude had been different then he would have gotten laid. He got no pussy last night though, because he completely ignored our male half when he made his advance. He's on the single-guy-in-a-bar-hitting-on-chicks wavelength, we were looking for fun within our comfort zone that wouldn't be in any way dangerous to our relationshp. Single guys are not a problem for us, we actually enjoy them, but single guys with no respect for the underlying relationship are just not going to get any. The really hot artist guy last night would have been a blast to fuck, and our male half was fully prepared to support it even though the guy was completely straight, but his attitude got him listed on the denied list after about five seconds. You might not have been as disrespectful as he was but you are still clearly operating on a completely different level and that's pretty obvious to a couple. You're thinking that you're at an orgy looking for a willing partner, they are thinking that they are in a potentially fun situation looking to add some positive kinky experiences to their relationship. A lot of it also has to do with the comfort level that we mentioned. Most likely what happened is that the relationship-oriented couples discovered some potential for some fun, but they were only comfortable doing what they wanted in 'private', just with the participants in the room. Single guy observers have a way of sticking hands and other body parts where they shouldn't be and just generally trying as hard as they can to push the envelope. Husbands and committed boyfriends are less likely to do that. Even if you aren't that kind of single guy, they still feel the danger that you might be. In the interest of protecting the comfort zone, single guys end up excluded. Everybody in the room knows that the fun might not happen at all if the audience is too big, otherwise they wouldn't have gone seeking private rooms in the first place. To protect the possibility of some fun happening, they protect the situation against any potential disruption, which in your case was you. Also, some people just don't like an audience. Our female half is very opposed to single guys that don't put in the groundwork to find themselves their own freaky girls who then show up at kinky parties trying to see her naked. She pretty actively resents that sort of thing. It only takes one or two people that feel that way in the room for you to get locked out. Our only real advice on the matter is that if you go to meet a bunch of freaky couples and you want to be included in their fun then you have to tune your brain to their frequency. Realize that you are basically an accessory and not really a full participant as long as you're there without a girl. As an accessory you have to be respectful and aware of the couple vibe going on around you, and the relationship-oriented mind set. If everybody gets the feeling that you're not at least respectful of that point of view then you're not going to get laid. __________________ i love everybody. you're next.

08-12-2002, 03:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
ciscosv Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 750 Location: Redford, Michigan Status: Married Couple	No offense, but you cant expect to jump right in. Just because swingers enjoy to have some swingin fun does not mean that every single guy is going to be invited into the fun or even invited to watch. I do sympathise with you, but it sounds like you had some false expectations. Remember that single men are abundant and you have to work your way in so to speak. __________________ M&M Melts in your mouth, not in your hand

08-12-2002, 04:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Alura T-Town Playmates Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 6,165 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Status: Married to Mrs. Alura	You were lucky. If we went to a club that allowed single men and one of them showed interest in Mrs. Alura, (You can bet one would!) she would be on her way out the door and I'd have to hurry to avoid walking home. She's pretty adamant that single men offer nothing to the lifestyle and shouldn't be there. Perhaps you've read some of her posts on this subject. Mr. Alura <small>[ 08-12-2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Alura ]</small> __________________ "They may call me a rube and a hick, but I'd a lot rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." —Will Rogers

08-13-2002, 01:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
*JustAskJulie* Your Hostess Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 22,688 Location: Alabama Status: Female Swing Lifestyle Name:swingersboard Blog Entries: 59	First off, TeamSoBe made some excellent points for you. Something that wasn't brought up tho was the fact that the second single guy (from what you said) came to the party with one of the couples (not alone as you did). That gave him an "in" so to speak. He already had a couple there that he knew and was pretty much guaranteed to play. As far as your comment that you should have been invited up 'at least to watch'. Did it not ever occur to you that not everyone likes to be watched? I don't want some single guy standing over me stroking his dick while I play. If they aren't interested in playing with you then they have no reason to invite you regardless. I'm sorry you went through this and had such a bad experience but I think you may have gone in with too high of expectations. If I had been in your shoes I would have left much ealier (like when I realized I was the only one left downstairs). As far as the host and others ignoring you when they came back down. That was their way of giving you the hint that they thought you should already be gone. I hate to be so blunt about it and I hope it's not just adding salt to the wound but that's pretty much the way it is. Your best shot at having any sort of chance is to get to know people on a one on one basis rather than just showing up and expecting something to happen with people that you don't even know. __________________ Julie Owner/ Admin http://www.swingersboard.com

08-13-2002, 08:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
curious24 Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 696 Location: austin, tx Status: Single Male	at least the other couples could have been nice enough to at least tell the single guy that he should just go home. some people just don't pick up on body language or anything and IMO it would have been the nice thing to do. but instead you all just let the one person sit out there and feel like an ass.. that to me just isn't right... someone should be "man" enough to go tell him to go home or something.. i mean he was man enough to show up by himself at a party where he really didn't know anyone.. and IMO there is no reason to treat someone who is acting nice so rudely.. now if they are acting rudely towards you all i'm sure most wouldn't have a problem kicking them out and being rude back. this just erks me how some people can act... one last thing i would have to say is that i do agree with a single guy who shows up shouldn't expect anything at all. not even being able to watch.. but if he's acting nice and respectful of others they should return the favor and tell him that it would be better for him to just leave. __________________ Rules for swinging By curiousagain. My Interview

08-13-2002, 09:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
TeamSoBe Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 507 Location: South Beach, Florida Status: M. Half of Couple	Curious24, your comment reminds me of another story of ours. We're not very experienced as 'swingers' but as you can probably gather we have had an awful lot of sex with our friends. This other story is similar though, single guy shows up to a party that takes a turn to the freaky side. Everybody is having their fun, single guy wants to participate, nobody really wants him around, everybody tries to make that clear with body language. This particular single guy just wasn't getting the hint because he was obviously just on a completely different wavelength than the rest of us and didn't understand the vibe that was going on. He just thought that we was at an orgy, probably because there were a few single girls there too that nobody really minded because they were targets instead of predators. So he wasn't getting the hint and he was getting more and more aggressive. I had the same feeling that you did, Curious, that somebody should just talk to him. That turned out to be a big mistake. I (male half here) took it on myself to talk to him because everybody else was afraid to. I explained that he was being so aggressive that the girls were really turned off by him, and that they were trying to get away from him. I told him that he was wasting his time and that he should probably just give it a rest. He became VERY irate and nearly punched me in the middle of the party, then he stayed at the party and spent the rest of the night bitching about me specifically, LOUDLY. He was very pissed off that I would have the nerve to 'tell him to stay away from my girls'. Honestly that was what I was doing, but he sort of missed the overall point. None of the women could possibly have talked to him about it because he would have taken a private conversation as an advance, he really was that creepy and overbearing. Since none of them could, it had to be one of the men, which he took as a territorial, alpha-male thing. Of course if he had understood the whole swinger concept then he wouldn't have been in alpha-male mode, but if he had understood then he wouldn't have needed the speech in the first place. I really don't see that there was any way out of the situation for us that didn't result in his feelings being hurt, but at least if we had all been passive-aggressive and avoided him then I wouldn't have been running around afraid of getting beaten up, he's a really big guy and he could have really pummeled me if he hadn't decided otherwise. We still see this guy socially every once in a while, that party was about two years ago. He continues to hate me because of that one incident even today, and he is constantly trying to turn our other friends against me in particular and us as a couple because of the whole thing. I made an enemy for life by trying to be chivalrous and do the right thing. Needless to say, my policy now is to just lock single guys out in the living room by themselves and let them deal with their own issues on their own. Here's a fun thought, especially for those of you in the Tampa, FL area. The guy that I was talking about in this message is married. He was at our party without his wife knowing about it. We know because he brags pretty openly and loudly about it that he goes about twice a week to a couple of different swing clubs in the Tampa area without his wife knowing about it. He's creepy, he's ugly, he's clueless, he contributes nothing, he's an ass, and he's wandering around swinger clubs trying as hard as he can to fuck other peoples' drunk wives while his own wife is oblivious at home. His example is why we never attend any sort of swinger event of any kind that allows single guys. __________________ i love everybody. you're next.

08-13-2002, 09:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cheekyimp1 Here to Stay Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 42 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada	I agree with curious completely. He shouldn't have expected anything at all but being ignored completely instead of being told that he should go home is bad manners. Put yourselves in his place. And curious is also right in that not everybody picks up on body language. lol Gods know my hubby doesn't. There is one thing though he really should have left after he hadn't been invited upstairs at all. Hope things get better for you.

08-13-2002, 10:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Fox n Hound Here to Stay Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 59 Location: Indiana	This is another example of why we as couple do not want to go to the clubs, when there is a click of people everyone else is an outsider. If you can not understand how this person must of felt, well I hope you never do. I bet if it had been a cute single female there would not have been anyone left down stairs. People in swinging should be more understanding than those who do not. What is the difference between a club and a meat market, in the meat market if you want it and can afford it you can have it. Fox N Hound

08-13-2002, 11:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
curious24 Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 696 Location: austin, tx Status: Single Male	TeamSoBe that's an awful story! but that is the exception that i was talking about.. when someone like that is being a jerk IMO that is when you can act rudely towards them etc... and that guy you are talking about.. wow.. that's bad.. is it usually that bad all the time? hmmm... but if a guy is nice and respectful of others i do think it's the right thing to do to just go over to him nicely and tell him that "sorry, you're welcome to stay and hang out but just so you know we are all going into the other room and it would probably be better if you left. You might have better luck else where. However, it was nice to meet you." Something to that effect wouldn't be rude and i know for myself i would be really grateful to those who did that.. i would have even more respect for them... but if they totally ignored me and were just being jerks to me after i had been nothing but nice.. i wouldn't ever want to talk to any of those couples again.. b/c those aren't the type of people i would want to associate with.. and i don't know many who want to be around thoughtless people.. anyway just my .02 __________________ Rules for swinging By curiousagain. My Interview

08-13-2002, 11:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,616 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by curious24: <strong>at least the other couples could have been nice enough to at least tell the single guy that he should just go home. some people just don't pick up on body language or anything and IMO it would have been the nice thing to do. but instead you all just let the one person sit out there and feel like an ass.. that to me just isn't right... someone should be "man" enough to go tell him to go home or something.. i mean he was man enough to show up by himself at a party where he really didn't know anyone.. and IMO there is no reason to treat someone who is acting nice so rudely.. now if they are acting rudely towards you all i'm sure most wouldn't have a problem kicking them out and being rude back. this just erks me how some people can act... one last thing i would have to say is that i do agree with a single guy who shows up shouldn't expect anything at all. not even being able to watch.. but if he's acting nice and respectful of others they should return the favor and tell him that it would be better for him to just leave.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Curious24, This is coming from a female point of view. First off I don't agree that others should have the responibility to be "compassionate" enuf to let anyone know they were not welcome into their sexual domain. That would be similar to being at a party/club with 20 or so couples or singles and going up to them and say.."Sorry, but you are out of luck tonight, we personally don't care to entertain you so you should leave." Sorta like shake their hands and say "Glad you could make it but your party is over." You should have just left when you were left out. Julie made a valid point. Not all couples wish to have themselves being viewed in the midst of passion. I know I certainly do not desire to have other viewing us in sexual action. First and foremost the distraction of having a non-participant in the sexual act just ruins the whole experience for me. Secondly, I have been to clubs where they have open areas for others to view and there is nothing worse than walking by a half of a dozen of males drooling and whacking off their cocks. That to me is downright disgusting. I may as well have been watching a poorly made '70's porno flick. Didn't like them then and I surely don't like the front row seat. Granted there are some that may enjoy being on public display but I certainly do not and will not allow it in anyway shape or form. Lobo, My suggestion would be that you attempt to get to know some of the couples that attend there and over the course of time, you "may" be invited into their private sessions at some point. It all depends on your compatablitiy with them. IMO, your expectations were pretty high for a first time encounter. I certainly understand how difficult it is for a single male, but remember you as a single, especially one who is new to the people you are around, as a rule will have to prove yourself before getting an invitation to a BBQ much less an invite to the bedroom. Lori <small>[ 08-13-2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: OhioCouple ]</small> __________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-14-2002, 12:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
curious24 Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 696 Location: austin, tx Status: Single Male	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OhioCouple: <strong>Curious24, This is coming from a female point of view. First off I don't agree that others should have the responibility to be "compassionate" enuf to let anyone know they were not welcome into their sexual domain. That would be similar to being at a party/club with 20 or so couples or singles and going up to them and say.."Sorry, but you are out of luck tonight, we personally don't care to entertain you so you should leave." Sorta like shake their hands and say "Glad you could make it but your party is over." You should have just left when you were left out. Julie made a valid point. Not all couples wish to have themselves being viewed in the midst of passion.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IMO a swingers party is just a tad different from a "meet and greet" type of party. And I don't think you can actually compare a "meet and greet" type of party to a swinger party. Maybe I'm just a different type of guy but i would almost expect someone to at least say "Sorry, but you are out of luck tonight, we personally don't care to entertain you so you should leave." That wouldn't bother me at all. I would say thank you and nice meeting you etc and I would politely leave so you all could enjoy the rest of the night. I really don't see anything wrong with that.. but I do see something wrong with just flat out ignoring the person. I've been the the one who was left out and no one said anything to me. Even if it is someone at the office asking everyone around me to go to lunch with them and them not asking me to lunch and I'm sitting right there! That to me is just rude, if you don't want me to go to lunch with you all either A) say so to me or B) ask everyone else when I'm not around or in private. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>I know I certainly do not desire to have other viewing us in sexual action. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is totally understandable. and I do think it was totally wrong for lobo to expect to get to watch. He shouldn't have expected anything of that nature. __________________ Rules for swinging By curiousagain. My Interview

08-14-2002, 02:09 AM	#13 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,616 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	Curious24, Perhaps I misunderstood something here, but from what I read Lobo had gone to a club. In our experiences we have found them to be very cliquish (sp). Generally if you do not know someone there you end up becoming a wall flower, sitting in a corner and just watching the action around you. (Speaking only of the three clubs we have been to). Unfortunately for Lobo he attended on a night where very few other people decided to come in. A piece of advice that was given to us was to show up early and introduce yourself to others, get to know a little about them etc. It seems that he attempted do that. Lobo unfortunately didn't have many to introduce himself to and perhaps he was just not compatable to them or they already had a pre-set idea of whom they were going to play with. Based on our experiences, most are meeting with established sexual partners. We did tho attend a club once on our own and using the advice given, we arrived early and introduced ourselves to others. We met several people and made some new friends. Doesn't mean we will play in the future, but at least we established some sort of connection and have begun the ground work. IMHO I think that most swingers need to get to know you in order to include or invite you into their private area. Just my opinion tho. Lori __________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-14-2002, 11:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
ciscosv Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 750 Location: Redford, Michigan Status: Married Couple	I do notice people grouped together at clubs. The first time we attended a club, we were there more to watch. We spoke to a couple of couples that sat at the same table. I participated in their sexy dance contest and had a blast. We ended up leaving early because thier was another party to go to that night. We were "ignored" in some ways, but it was because we really did not introduce ourselves to other couples there. After attending more dances, we have gotten to know quite a few people there. From our observations you cant sit there expecting to get noticed. You have to participate and interact at any function. I dont think it was rude for anyone to ignore lobo. If you think that is wrong, then that is your problem. How can you be noticed if you are not interacting with people? I also do not want some single guy/s standing around us while we are playing. I guess that is why I dont care to go to the zoo because I could understand how the animals feel. This is our sex life and you have to be "invited" to play with us. Maybe that sounds stuck up and know that we are not alone when we say that. The best advice to give would be to meet some couples that would escort you to a party or any other swinger function. TeamSoBe. You crack me up! __________________ M&M Melts in your mouth, not in your hand

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08-14-2002, 12:58 PM	#15 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,616 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ciscosv: <strong> I also do not want some single guy/s standing around us while we are playing. I guess that is why I dont care to go to the zoo because I could understand how the animals feel.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ciscosv, That is "Exactly" what it reminds me of! Well said! <img border="0" alt="[ROFL]" title="" src="graemlins/rofl.gif" /> Lori __________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

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