I was routinely ignored, rejected, and rudely treated at parties...

[RnCinNorCal]

Racism in the Lifestyle??

Ohhhh you betcha. Either that, or some swingers will expose others to embarrassment and humiliation in order to ensure that their preferences are tended to.

Back in 2005, at our first---very first---swinging experience, we were invited to a small (maybe 12 people at the maximum) sex party in a hotel room. The hostess was a black woman with whom I'd corresponded for some months and had some rather desultory sex only once. However, once I e-mailed her a photo of my mixed-race lady (I'm a white kid, BTW), she wanted us at her next shindig. She also mentioned a Latina friend of hers who'd seen our photos and was interested in me. Fair enough, so we went.

Apparently the only reason we were invited was because of my lady (now my wife); the other women, including the Latina who claimed interest in me, were there solely for a helping of BBC. I was turned down by every woman in the room, and I had endure knowing that my lady was being serviced by a rather mousy white fellow who feigned nervousness in order to elicit multiple-female attention. I was relegated to the sidelines until, after an hour had passed, I told my girl that we were leaving. I was convinced that our hostess and the other women present had absolutely no intention of allowing me to participate. We chalked it up to beginner's bad luck, thinking that it couldn't get worse.

It did.

In early 2006 we attended a M&G of a party group wherein we were apparently "good enough" to pass muster with them. I hadn't given it much consideration at the time, but I indeed noticed that (1) all of the women save the hostess/moderator were women of color, and (2) all of the men were either men of color, or the bald, bearded, thuggish white men who looked like they had a rap sheet 100 yards long or aspired to do so. Despite my deja-vu regarding the above-mentioned experience, we attended the party anyway. Just as before, I was routinely ignored, rejected, and otherwise rudely treated as I was the ONLY white male with hair on his head and a clean-shaven face. One of the thug types had glommed onto my lady and literally followed us around all night, no matter to whom we spoke or where we sat. So, she and I were going to play together, by ourselves, on one of the beds in the living room; once we started she shut down and seemed uninterested, and all the while, the little thug was parked practically in our collective lap. I whispered to my girl "You want to play with him, don't you?" After she enthusiastically nodded her head with a grin of which the Cheshire Cat would be proud, I walked out of the room and let her be escorted into the "Dark Room" wherein (I later was told) she had a sort of mini-threesome with the gadfly and another fellow who was already in the room. The hostess apparently toojk pity on me and "allowed" me to eat her out, and when we kissed I pulled gently on her lip, and she ran out of the room, later claiming that I deliberately bit her lip to draw blood. While I awaited her return, her guests are all looking at me, with my pants down, just staring silently. Later on, I still received rejection after rejection---and ended up alone in the patio, waiting for my lady to finish up her business. After over 45 minutes of cooling my heels, I admit I got up, collected her shoes, threw them into the "Dark Room" and said "OK, we are outta here." It took her another 30 minutes before we were finally out the door. We came very close to breaking up that night.

The next day I wrote the hostess an e-mail to tell her how humiliated I felt at the hands of her and her guests. Her reply was essentially a counter accusation of "starting drama" ( the catch-all excuse used when a host or hostess mistreats you and you call him or her on it) and biting her lip on purpose (just not true). Then came the kicker: we were invited only because everyone wanted my lady to attend; I was excess baggage, to be merely tolerated and deliberately culled.

I do not begrudge anyone their preferences and desires, so long as it's all safe and sane. However, I would think that one would populate a party exclusively with those who share such preferences, and not do so at another, undesired person's expense.

[DiscreetDesires]

I don't think this is necessarily racism.
You mention that there were other white men attending both parties, correct? Well.. then it's not racism.
Maybe there was something particular about you as a person that they did not find attractive or even some kind of vibe you were giving off.
Are these your only experiences in 5 years?
These situations happened 4 years ago, and maybe it's time you move past them. I'm not trying to be mean here, but sometimes people can hold onto negativity for way too long. This should be something to learn from and then take with you.

If you know that you will be hurt to some degree if your woman plays, and you do not get to, maybe y'all should only play together.
If your lady was completely uninterested in playing with you, then y'all should have left the party right then and there. That would need to be discussed!
You both are each others' first and foremost and it should always be that way. I would NEVER think of shutting down and being uninterested in sex w/my hubby just to turn around and say that I wanted to have sex with someone else.

Why did you both come so close to breaking up? Was it because you weren't having fun, but she was?
Again.. this would lead me to think again, that you should both stick to playing together. Was there a reason that you could not join in on the fun she was having in the dark room?

I am sorry about this, but I also have to agree with the hostess about the drama. I don't know about the lip biting part, but from what you describe, you paint yourself as the guy sitting in the corner fuming because your lady is having sex with others, but you aren't and then when you've finally gotten upset enough, you find her to demand that you both leave.
This does sound like drama to me.
You both need to talk it out and avoid situations like this in the future.

[prometheius]

From Merriam Webster's Dictionary;

Racism: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

From what the OP wrote, I don't see anything that implies racism. Most swingers are careful not to present themselves as racists, bigots, or (for the most part) discriminatory in any way that they are aware of. Racism is ugly and has no place in the lifestyle. In fact, most swingers will go out of their way to avoid anything that even smacks of racism. Swingers generally try to present themselves in the most attractive manner that they can. How can a person hope to hook up if they are being ugly?

I am wondering if perhaps there was another reason the OP was shunned at these two events. From what was posted, I got the impression that the OP was feeling anxious tension and that maybe the other people attending picked up on that. That would be enough to make me move away as well.

[VegasLee]

Is there Racism in the Swinging Lifestyles? Yep, there is and has been since the start of time and will be until the end of time. I have seen it all my life and I am betting I will see it until my dying day. Swingers are no different then other people. They are not any more open minded, just different minded.

Now, what the OP has posted about has nothing to do with Racism at all.

DiscreetDesires and prometheius covered it pretty well but don't anyone get the idea that Racism does not exists , it is alive and well in all parts of life. I don't agree with it, but it is there.

Anyone that does not think so is kidding their self and not really watching what is going on around them. After seeing 800 to 1000 "Swingers" a week I can more then say it happens.

[it'sso]

I'll give the OP his due. It seems that with many people, if it isn't happening with them personally, then it just can't happen to others. Reverse racism does, indeed exist. Not only in social circumstances, but in the workplace as well.
I guess you just have to be there to see it.

[DiscreetDesires]

Reverse racism?
I looked up the definition, and it says racism against the majority. Is it this bad to where we have to have a definition for every little thing now a days?!
To me, racism is racism.. it doesn't matter which race you are, or which race it is being discriminated against.
If I would logically look at the word reverse racism, I would think that it is going in the opposite direction of racism.. which is a good thing. LoL.. guess it shows what I know.

Racism does exist in the lifestyle and outside, but this particular scenario does not appear to be racism to me.

[nola40scpl]

Originally Posted by it'sso

I'll give the OP his due. It seems that with many people, if it isn't happening with them personally, then it just can't happen to others. Reverse racism does, indeed exist. Not only in social circumstances, but in the workplace as well.
I guess you just have to be there to see it.

just to clarify a point here and one which is also one of my biggest pet peeves. understand i am not calling your dumb by any means, but please get a grip on the english language. racism is racism whether it is whites toward blacks, blacks toward whites, etc. think about what you just wrote. see the definition of racism posted earlier.

here's the definition of reverse: opposite or contrary in position, direction, order, or character

now what would REVERSE racism mean?

now back to what the op started the thread about......

doesn't seem racist but more of someone taking advantage of a situation they knew they could.

[it'sso]

I'll willingly accept the label. "dumb". I barely have any education at all, other than what I have picked up from mimicking others.

[Chicup]

Lets not confuse racism from 'not my crowd'.

It sounds like you were going with groups that you didn't have anything in common with. Your mistake was not leaving right away and poor communication with your spouse over the issues.

As a couple you have to have each others back so to speak. If one is obviously uncomfortable, you stop play but you also have to let her know you are uncomfortable and want to stop.

[xxxboxy]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Lets not confuse racism from 'not my crowd'.

It sounds like you were going with groups that you didn't have anything in common with. Your mistake was not leaving right away and poor communication with your spouse over the issues.

As a couple you have to have each others back so to speak. If one is obviously uncomfortable, you stop play but you also have to let her know you are uncomfortable and want to stop.

That's exactly how I read it.

[divenaked]

Sounds to me you were going to the wrong parties.

[RnCinNorCal]

Well, I'm going to agree with everyone's general consensus here, and here's why:

While it takes two to tango---i.e., both she and I contributed to the failures of our swinging---I'm here to tell you that I, the male half, am the one who really fucked things up.

C (the female half of us) once told me that I must be giving off this "negative vibe" whenever we attended a dance or a house party, and I am inclined to agree. Oh, don't get me wrong folks, I denied it for quite a while. However, long after our last such attendance, now she won't even consider attending a dance just to go dancing, because she doesn't "equate it with having any fun." That's because of me.

I have a near-paralyzing fear of rejection. I did some swinging as a single man before I met C in 2004, and since I wasn't sufficiently young/tall/thin/hairless/hung, my connections were very, very few compared to other single men in that particular area. I was a well-liked figure in the chat room, but in person I was relegated to the sidelines. When C and I started swinging, it was more of the same, and I couldn't just shake it off and move on. I will admit I became inwardly upset when I felt I wasn't getting nearly the attention that C was getting, and that other men were having no trouble getting a dance partner, much less a sex partner for later on. My feeling is that while I am not morbidly obese, most women in the swinging community where we are find me too big, or having too much body hair, or something that turns them away. We would attend pre-dance pool parties and no one would talk to us for more than a few minutes, if at all. Others would advise us to be ourselves and just strike up conversations with other couples at the events, but that only worked when C did so solo; when I tried it or we tried we would get the look that told us we were definitely interrupting something. What very few connections we made were either unsatisfying or downright unpleasant. More dates were broken than made, and one couple even dumped us 30 minutes after we met them.

C is a gregarious BBW with a welcoming disposition and a disarming smile---it wasn't her fault. That leaves me, and I seem to have soured it for us both. Something I did or didn't do/say repelled others, and the snowball effect kicked in when my frustration and hurt feelings got the better of me. I am not certain how to fix this, because no one we encountered pointed out the root problem. Even if C wanted to go back to the playground, I'm afraid I'd re-fuck it up.

[JustAskJulie]

Sadly, we hear this same report from many men, regardless of the race of their wife. Some will even tell you that swinging is all about the wives and that Women Rule Swinging. I don't think it's a race thing, I think it might be a YOU thing. There are some guys who are going to have an easier time in swinging and some guys who are going to have a harder time. Couples, like yourselves, who are ok with splitting up at parties often pay that price of one partner (most often the lady) having more fun while the other partner waits on the couch. This seems to be what you are experiencing.

One way to ensure this does not happen is to not play separately and not go to parties like this where you are expected to do so. Meet other couples one on one or go to clubs and hook up TOGETHER. If a couple isn't interested in both of you then don't bother. We've turned down a number of couples because they only wanted a woman, sorry but we don't play that way (and we are both white).

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by RnCinNorCal

Well, I'm going to agree with everyone's general consensus here, and here's why:

While it takes two to tango---i.e., both she and I contributed to the failures of our swinging---I'm here to tell you that I, the male half, am the one who really fucked things up.

C (the female half of us) once told me that I must be giving off this "negative vibe" whenever we attended a dance or a house party, and I am inclined to agree. Oh, don't get me wrong folks, I denied it for quite a while. However, long after our last such attendance, now she won't even consider attending a dance just to go dancing, because she doesn't "equate it with having any fun." That's because of me.

I have a near-paralyzing fear of rejection. I did some swinging as a single man before I met C in 2004, and since I wasn't sufficiently young/tall/thin/hairless/hung, my connections were very, very few compared to other single men in that particular area. I was a well-liked figure in the chat room, but in person I was relegated to the sidelines. When C and I started swinging, it was more of the same, and I couldn't just shake it off and move on. I will admit I became inwardly upset when I felt I wasn't getting nearly the attention that C was getting, and that other men were having no trouble getting a dance partner, much less a sex partner for later on. My feeling is that while I am not morbidly obese, most women in the swinging community where we are find me too big, or having too much body hair, or something that turns them away. We would attend pre-dance pool parties and no one would talk to us for more than a few minutes, if at all. Others would advise us to be ourselves and just strike up conversations with other couples at the events, but that only worked when C did so solo; when I tried it or we tried we would get the look that told us we were definitely interrupting something. What very few connections we made were either unsatisfying or downright unpleasant. More dates were broken than made, and one couple even dumped us 30 minutes after we met them.

C is a gregarious BBW with a welcoming disposition and a disarming smile---it wasn't her fault. That leaves me, and I seem to have soured it for us both. Something I did or didn't do/say repelled others, and the snowball effect kicked in when my frustration and hurt feelings got the better of me. I am not certain how to fix this, because no one we encountered pointed out the root problem. Even if C wanted to go back to the playground, I'm afraid I'd re-fuck it up.

As you have caught on to, this has nothing to do with racism. If you are to blame women not playing with you as racism then you will also have to make claim that every woman that has gone to bed with you has been simply because you are white.

People often try to blame their rejection on the prejudices of others and that they are being rejected over things for which they have no control ie race, age, height, size of penis etc. This may help relieve some of the immediate pain but by not accepting accountability it also perpetuates the problem by becoming a bitter victim. Being a bitter victim is a guarenteed road to failure.

However by accepting accountability of your successes and failures you can empower yourself to improve your game and from that point on you can take credit for your successes.

What you need is a lifestyle coach that can help you bring out some of your best qualities as well as work on your challenges to improve your chances of success. (BTW if you were going down on some gal and making out at a party, you were more successful than most of the male 1/2s I've seen at partys)

If you are overweight, you can make a huge impact on your success by simply acheiving a healthy ht/wt proportion (BBWs are often accepted and welcomed in the lifestyle, overweight men are not ) If you are abnormally wooly there is treatment for that as well.

Another huge thing for many men is simply to improve some of their social skills and learn to talk to women and interact socially with them as well as to learn to flirt, dance, charm and wooo women.

Another biggie is if one is to survive life in the swinging world one must also learn to manage rejection. Fear of rejection and bitterness when it happens will be a kiss of death to even the young, hot, slender, blond female.

To sum this all up, you gotta get "GAME". All of those things are learned skills and you can learn them too. Read books, read this forumboard, talk to people, ask questions, get in the gym and buy a new wardrobe, learn new social skills etc etc

If you can find someone knowledgable and understanding that can be your mentor and lifestyle coach that will do more than anything else to help you.

Right now you are like the guy that walks on to a golf course for the first time saying, "how hard can it be to hit a little ball into a hole?" and then gets frustrated and angry when he spends the whole day trying to find his balls in the weeds.

Get some coaching and learn to play the game and then you can keep your balls out of the weeds.

[padoc]

Racism my ass! Two of the best things about swinging are choice and honesty! We get to choose who we play with and how we do it. The original poster simply chose the wrong parties to attend and judging from the tone of his posts, may have added to the problem by his attitude. No one wanted to play with him? Too bad, that was their choice. Accepting an invitation to a swingers gathering does not entitle someone to get laid. He would not have rubbed bellies with someone had he not showered for a week. How is a hygiene choice any different from one made by penis size, skin tone or body weight?

Yes, racism exists but it probably isn't the only reason this guy didn't get laid and even if it was, so what? Unlike real life, swingers can choose who they associate with. We would not attend a BBC party nor would we share an interlude with an individual simply because he/she was black (or asian, or redheaded, or a dwarf). That is our choice and not racist.