Third time's "not" a charm

[DigginIt]

If you didn’t read our short introduction, my wife and I are very new to this. While I am posting my second post ever here on SB about our bad experience, please make sure you read the next post on the first two days and what we consider very good experiences.

Quick preface, we are in our early 40s. We really feel we are fun loving, outgoing, attractive and in pretty good shape. We decided to make our first adventure at an on premise club in New Orleans. I know there are probably going to be some people reading this post and thinking “hey, I saw you guys.” So if you think you did see us then please say hello and tell us what you thought.

We went three nights in a row, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The first two nights were actually great and will be what I’m going to be posting next about. This post is about the third night that was bad. I’m very thankful that it was the third night that sucked or it really could have killed our interest.

Saturday night rolls around and the club is couples only. We were on a sexual high from the first two nights and due to some long ass waiting times to get fed, we arrived at the club almost 2 hours after opening. This could have been part of the issue but we decided we were going to make the best of it.

We came in and found a nice spot at the bar facing the dance floor. The place was packed. We had been seeing 10-15 couples in the place at any given time the first two nights but we were really excited to see about 4 times that many couples this night. I (the guy) made eye contact with a couple that I though was attractive and within seconds we were all chatting (she came over without the SO male half and was shortly followed by him). She was sweet, funny and very outgoing and there was an attraction to her on both mine and my wife’s part. Unfortunately, my wife and her husband didn’t quite hit it off very well. We decided to back off as we wanted to be respectful but clearly we had caused a rift between the husband and wife.

A bit later, they seemed to come to an agreement and as my wife and I were dancing, they came out and split us apart on the floor and I was dancing with his wife and vice versa. Nothing inappropriate as I wanted to ensure there was complete mutual interest on both sides. My wife and her husband seemed to clash again. When this happened, we backed off trying to still be considerate. The long story short is that they eventually couldn’t seem to settle their differences and they left the club angry. At us or at each other, I have no idea. We felt she wanted to play and he didn't. We felt very bad over the incident and it was a shame that we were not able to find an alternate arrangement with them as the wives seemed to be attracted to each other.

Most everyone else at the club was nice but the one additional time we actually tried to talk with another couple who seemed interested; we were immediately cut off by a second couple that we believe didn’t want them speaking with us. We ended up having sex upstairs in the library, which was a fun voyeuristic display but ultimately we left a little disappointed.

There really seemed to be a lot more drama than we had anticipated. Is that common?

[Dave_kat]

If we had to guess, you ran into a couple of problems on your third night there.

Originally Posted by DigginIt

I (the guy) made eye contact with a couple that I though was attractive and within seconds we were all chatting (she came over without the SO male half and was shortly followed by him). She was sweet, funny and very outgoing and there was an attraction to her on both mine and my wife’s part. Unfortunately, my wife and her husband didn’t quite hit it off very well. We decided to back off as we wanted to be respectful but clearly we had caused a rift between the husband and wife.

Problem 1. The first couple you met and started to party with, call them "couple A". Mr A and your wife didn't get along or mesh. That happens when you get four people together - sometimes things just don't click.

Most couple's won't take one for the team, and if Mr.A and MrsDigginit didn't mesh, then you did right by backing away respectfully.

Originally Posted by DigginIt

A bit later, they seemed to come to an agreement and as my wife and I were dancing, they came out and split us apart on the floor and I was dancing with his wife and vice versa. Nothing inappropriate as I wanted to ensure there was complete mutual interest on both sides. My wife and her husband seemed to clash again. When this happened, we backed off trying to still be considerate. The long story short is that they eventually couldn’t seem to settle their differences and they left the club angry.

Going back, even though their actions initiated it, wasn't quite the right thing.

They probably left after Mr.A and Mrs.Digginit didn't get along and either Mr or Mrs A said something like together or not at all. If the other party is highly interested, it might have seemed like a fight was going on.

Attempting to find an "alternate arrangement" would have been a very big mistake without knowing couple A's rules.

Originally Posted by DigginIt

Most everyone else at the club was nice but the one additional time we actually tried to talk with another couple who seemed interested; we were immediately cut off by a second couple that we believe didn’t want them speaking with us. We ended up having sex upstairs in the library, which was a fun voyeuristic display but ultimately we left a little disappointed.

Problem 2:
This one is a little more difficult to determine, we definitely do not know enough to really go on, but can think of several possibilities.

We're the third couple there with the second couple couple originally? If so, you might have been stepping into a relationship you didn't know about.

Had these two couples already met and made plans?

Had you had any talk/encounter with either of these couples before?

It's also possible there had been a misunderstanding of the drama beforehand and you might have gotten noticed during that. Some couples will notice the drama, and not what starts it, or know the facts, and try to steer away from that totally, perhaps taking others with them.

You say you had a wonderful time the previous two nights - let those nights make your determination about the club. Sometimes, try as we all might, we don't hook up during an event, the chemistry just doesn't happen. We can't judge things based off of one night, and if two out of three were awesome, then you're doing much better than some couples do.

Heck, when we go to a new club, it generally takes until the second or third time to really get started in the club, as the regulars get a feel for what we're about.

Don't get discouraged, two out of three isn't bad at all.

[lustylearning]

It's a little disappointing, maybe, but no biggie Just go, expect nothing, have fun, and revel in it. Since you can't read what was going on with the other couples, don't worry about it. You won't be able to figure it out anyway

[The Fuse]

snip

Originally Posted by DigginIt

We came in and found a nice spot at the bar facing the dance floor. The place was packed. We had been seeing 10-15 couples in the place at any given time the first two nights but we were really excited to see about 4 times that many couples this night. I (the guy) made eye contact with a couple that I though was attractive and within seconds we were all chatting (she came over without the SO male half and was shortly followed by him). She was sweet, funny and very outgoing and there was an attraction to her on both mine and my wife’s part. Unfortunately, my wife and her husband didn’t quite hit it off very well. We decided to back off as we wanted to be respectful but clearly we had caused a rift between the husband and wife.

It is very nice and considerate of you to be concerned about their rift, but ultimately it is their rift. From what you posted, it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong-- just didn't have a four-way match. When that happens, and it happens a lot, each side has to be philosophical about it. We all have to learn to take rejection gracefully. If they were fighting between themselves over it, that's not a good way for them to handle things between themselves. More importantly, it's not your responsibility.

Originally Posted by DigginIt

A bit later, they seemed to come to an agreement and as my wife and I were dancing, they came out and split us apart on the floor and I was dancing with his wife and vice versa. Nothing inappropriate as I wanted to ensure there was complete mutual interest on both sides. My wife and her husband seemed to clash again.

What do you mean by "clash"? If you were trying to ensure that there was mutual interest (which seems unlikely based on there NOT being mutual interest during your first conversation), does that mean that your wife or the other husband was trying to pull away from an unwanted advance? Or did they have a verbal clash?

Originally Posted by DigginIt

When this happened, we backed off trying to still be considerate. The long story short is that they eventually couldn’t seem to settle their differences and they left the club angry. At us or at each other, I have no idea. We felt she wanted to play and he didn't. We felt very bad over the incident and it was a shame that we were not able to find an alternate arrangement with them as the wives seemed to be attracted to each other.

I'll echo what someone else already said: many couples are in it for both of them to play, and don't want any other arrangement. I don't think it's necessarily bad to ask, but be prepared to be gracious when the answer is no.

Please don't feel badly. It's probably nothing you did. Was your wife into the other husband? Your post said he probably didn't want to play. Was the lack of interest mutual with your wife, or was she interested? If so, was she pursuing him? That's the only thing I could think of that could possibly make them annoyed with you. But if you are the respectful type, it sounds unlikely.

Originally Posted by DigginIt

Most everyone else at the club was nice but the one additional time we actually tried to talk with another couple who seemed interested; we were immediately cut off by a second couple that we believe didn’t want them speaking with us. We ended up having sex upstairs in the library, which was a fun voyeuristic display but ultimately we left a little disappointed.

There really seemed to be a lot more drama than we had anticipated. Is that common?

Depending on how strident everyone became, that is more drama than we normally see. It is easy to allow other peoples' bad behaviour to interfere with your enjoyment. We ourselves did this last Saturday night when we actually left a club a little earlier than we might have wanted to, because of someone who was annoying us.

The key here, I believe, is realizing that four-way matches are difficult to find. If one person isn't interested, then everyone should just smile and wish each other well. It's okay to be disappointed, but not okay to exhibit bad behaviour.

In my opinion, if one member of the couple isn't interested, then pursuing you again (for what reason?) is potentially in bad taste. Everything is situational though. Do you know why they did that? What were they hoping to achieve? Why did they think the outcome would be different? In any case, they should have had better manners and not aired their own dirty laundry in public. There's almost never a good reason for a couple to fight in front of others, swing event or no swing event.

If you had a good time the other two nights and had fun that night in the library, that sounds like a darn good weekend to me. I don't know where your other post is that you referenced, but I'll keep my eye out!

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

Problem 2:
This one is a little more difficult to determine, we definitely do not know enough to really go on, but can think of several possibilities.

We're the third couple there with the second couple originally? If so, you might have been stepping into a relationship you didn't know about.

Had these two couples already met and made plans?

Had you had any talk/encounter with either of these couples before?

It's also possible there had been a misunderstanding of the drama beforehand and you might have gotten noticed during that. Some couples will notice the drama, and not what starts it, or know the facts, and try to steer away from that totally, perhaps taking others with them.

Wow, very insightful on all of the points. All are very possible. We may never know but it could have been that the second couple had prearranged plans. We are sure that the other couple was there for some of the drama and I’m sure, now that you have mentioned it, others could have saw this unfold as well. This really could have been the killer for the evening.

My wife and I really appreciate the feedback as it has made us think a little more for any future club visits.

Originally Posted by The Fuse

What do you mean by "clash"? If you were trying to ensure that there was mutual interest (which seems unlikely based on there NOT being mutual interest during your first conversation), does that mean that your wife or the other husband was trying to pull away from an unwanted advance? Or did they have a verbal clash?

I do not think that is was necessarily from an unwanted advance. My wife said that she felt he was trying to be a little controlling but there was never a chance to really find out.

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Was your wife into the other husband? Your post said he probably didn't want to play. Was the lack of interest mutual with your wife, or was she interested? If so, was she pursuing him? That's the only thing I could think of that could possibly make them annoyed with you.

My wife believes that it was more of an issue that he didn't want to play with anyone outside of their circle. We think he was being coerced into playing. When they came on the dance floor and split the two of us up, my wife felt that he was upset but she did not feel that it was directed at her or as if he was "taking one for the team."

I really believe that he had a comfort zone and we were outside of it for whatever reason. I do believe that we made every attempt to be respectful of their boundaries. It was right after the dance, about 2 songs, when we left the floor they regrouped, appeared to argue, said good bye to a couple friends and left. The woman was definitely interested in both mrs d and myself but nothing was said to us, no good byes or sorry that we are just not that into you, nothing.

Oh, on the other post about the really two great nights. It was such a long post when I wrote it I just pasted it in Word and decided to work on it off line. It’s still sitting there. Give me till tomorrow to get it up.

Thanks.

PS – if you are curious about us, we just created a Swing Lifestyle profile. We will post some pictures tomorrow hopefully. Most will be in the private gallery as we are trying to be discreet.

[The Fuse]

Nice profile! Can't wait to see the pictures.

I guess the only thing I have left to add, which might be useful to you, is that as time goes on and you meet more people and visit more clubs, you'll learn to anticipate more situations and reasons why those slightly unpleasant things might happen. Dave_kat did a good job of listing some of those. Also, you seem like pretty considerate and thoughtful people, so naturally you were a little bummed about the other couple's discomfort. As time goes on, I bet you will probably find that people tend to get bothered by a lot of different things, most of which have nothing to do with you. As mature realistic people you'll probably learn to not be bothered by that in turn, or at least you'll tend to realize you're not responsible for their feelings. Other things a couple might be experiencing are:

One's into swinging, the other is not (and not just outside their circle).
They've just had a spat about something in their normal life.
One or both is drunk or otherwise not feeling right.
One or both are jealous and insecure.
One is "just not that into you."
They are just uncomfortable in the environment and so come off as unfriendly.
One has a medical condition that's keeping them from wanting to play (she just got her period, she's finishing a course of antibiotics for a bacterial infection, he's on blood thinners, etc.)
The man is worried about his performance. Maybe he's been having some problems with getting an erection in a play situation and is afraid to try.

... and on and on...

I'll share an experience of our own, where another couple could have wondered what was up our butts, just as an example of what can happen. I'm a little guilty of a failure to communicate (ha ha) this past Saturday night. There were a few couples at the club we went to who were interested in us, and I was not that into them but really just wanted to dance, flirt and have fun. I should have said something before they spent a lot of time with us. Of course, they could have asked directly if we were interested in playing in general that night ("are you looking to play tonight? Who looks good to you?") or about our play preferences in general ("Are you full swap? Do you like girls? What do you think of my boyfriend?"), and they would have had their answer. As it turned out, they didn't ask much except "would you like to join us at our hotel?" and one of the guys was a bit of a baby about us turning them down. I was relieved when they all left together. Then about a half hour later, Mr. Baby came back by himself. That was weird, and it's when we left. We could have stayed for longer but we did have to get up, so we were fine with leaving. But on the other hand, I (or my husband) could have earlier taken the responsibility for communication first ("Hey, we've got to get up early tomorrow, I'm not sure what you were thinking, but just in case, we're really just here to dance.") I wrote a blog entry about how much fun we had. I may go back and write a comment about the weird part. When we were new, something like that might have bothered us a lot. Now, we just chalk it up to experience.

My point in rambling on like that (other than avoiding doing my real work, ha ha) is to illustrate how even in the case where you think a couple is into you (which I know wasn't the case in your OP), because they've been dancing with you and being flirty, that sometimes they're not into playing that night. It has nothing to do with you.

[DigginIt]

Mrs D and I spent about an hour on that profile. We kept writing, rewriting and then when we thought we liked it; we rewrote it again, lol. Now, after looking at yours (we love it btw – great pictures too), we think we need to add a little bit more to it as we really want people to get a good sense of who we are because that's what we felt when we read yours. When we look at a profile and only see a couple bullet sentences we automatically think that if they are not willing to put time into their profile then what kind of time are they going to put into us?

We are not just about the sex, don’t get me wrong because that is a great part but we love the chemistry when there is an inherent attraction beyond the physical. I personally do not want to just see my wife having sex with another guy. That’s not a turn on for me. I want to see my wife really enjoying another man and that takes a connection to be made, even if it’s on a simple level such as a good conversation.

We use the word “connection” loosely. Chemistry is probably the best word because we are not looking for a relationship but it would be nice to have sex with a couple where we have a relationship type of feel. We are new and that may be naive thinking on our part but we believe that the better the connection, combined with attraction, the better the sex will be because part of being aroused is mental. This is going to sound very rude but honestly I’m saying it to make a funny point and hopefully it will sound that way. Mrs D I will joke on occasion and say something like: “Wow, he/she was very sexy until they opened their mouth.” We can see beyond a person who may not be exactly what we are looking physically if they are attractive in other ways. That includes self-confidence, sense of humor, considerate, etc. We are very down to earth type of people and hopefully our expectations are not unrealistic or idealistic.

Thoughts?

[The Fuse]

I suggest you try this thread: Couples Profile Reviews for feedback on your profile. Reading the posts on that thread is instructive too. You may not want to read the whole thing because it is long, but a sampling is good.

As far as what you're looking for, of course I think it's reasonable because it's what we're looking for too. You won't have a problem finding compatible couples. When you do post your pictures, that will help too because a lot of people (including us) won't know if they are interested without seeing pictures, in many cases pictures of both of you.

[xyzzy07]

Nice profile. We always like to see something about a couple's non-sex interests to see if we have something else in common.

Sorry you had an awkward experience with that couple, but it happens. One time a couple had sent us a note suggesting we meet at a club. We did, and noticed immediately that something was wrong. It was obvious that they'd been fighting before they came in, and were still angry with each other. They asked us to dance, and we did in order to be polite, but we made sure to extricate ourselves gracefully after one dance. It's best to shrug such things off.

Looking forward to your post describing the good evenings.

[DigginIt]

Originally Posted by xyzzy07

It was obvious that they'd been fighting before they came in, and were still angry with each other.

We have no rules other than same room play and if we are arguing then no play despite how much we both want to. We will work things out because no good will come out of the night if you don't.

I think that everyone argues but you have to both be in the right mindset to play. If you are angry or upset and you continue then you are putting your physical desires ahead of your emotional ones and in the end, the emotional one is the more important of the two. It's what makes the physical part truly enjoyable.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the response.

Check out the new post under the "good" experiences thread.

[realcplub2]

Hello Again, we are wroking in chronological order.. read the other post first, lol

Now then, lets look at this with some new eyes. You were new to this adventure, you went to the club, three nights running.. and each night you played..If not only for the thrill of being watched, You both had great nights, ALL THREE NIGHTS reagardless.. Which, is more than some do after YEARS of going to clubs.

Now, another honest statement Our fellow SB members will eacho is, there are some the end up being "cliquey" If they dont know you, some will flat out rudely tell new folks to" Move Along, nothing to see here".. Which usually illicits a louder answer from me, " You are AB-SO-LUTE-LY right".... ( And yes it has to be said with emphisis on each syllable)

But getting back to what you expereinced, while its everyones choice to give people another chance, in reality, given that your wife didnt hit it off with the other husband, its best that things didnt get too far.

Remember, when attempting to play as a foursome, you are dealing with the personal tastes/preferences of each member of the party.. If you remember dating, finding one person to hit it off with is often hard enough, now you are trying to fill the criteria of four people.. Not always going to happen.

But also remember.... Sometimes it does